Finished Mafia LIV: My Bastard Village-Game Over!

[Zone Q11]

And why do you suspect one of these three people? The difference is that Drac's 50% ability is completely random, while this is not. You can deduce who is probably mafian from the lead... which is what the game is about.

Rather than asking why I suspect the three, I suggest you ask why I don't think this is a good lead.
The answer to the first question is already stated: They are substituted.
The answer to the second question is because despite this being a lead, I want a 100% scumlynch. Also, I wouldn't know who to lynch between the three of them. --that is, until MathBlade disappointed my expectations of him.

 

[bbninjas]

Glad to see people actually thinking about the lead now, good progress. \o/
On a different note, I wouldn't be surprised if @Professor_jplap got converted to a mafian alignment when he was revived, as that would explain his recent decision to lie low. Just realised that firekitten suggested this here, and yes, I could see NP doing this.

Theories for the identity of the mafian who said people would wonder why i left. [future reference]ing this for later scumhunts, as it will be interesting to see which theories came from who.

-- Someone who had left PokeBeach and returned only recently. Potential candidates: Dogger // First proposed by bbninjas [link], supported by Luispipe [link], Violet [link]
-- Someone who wanted to leave an in-game event. // First proposed by firekitten [link]
-- Someone who wanted to leave (sub out) from the game. // First proposed by Violet [link], vaguely supported by Zone [link, link].
-- Someone who wanted to leave a scumchat or in-game chat. // First proposed by Violet [link], rejected by Zone [link].

Doesn't // refuses to discuss the lead: Roz [link*], MathBlade [link], Kiiruma [link**]
Drac just says that syntax isn't indicative, doesn't comment on the context. [link]
MIA: Aqua, Jplap
*In Roz's case, he thinks that the lead is not strong, but does not elaborate in face of the facts (that it is probably from a mafian and can be deduced).
** Kiiruma is apparently too busy to elaborate, which is funny because they weren't too busy to think about their wish -- i.e. getting their role buffed.

Also compiling everyone's initial reactions below. This is important because the context part of the discussion would be most telling, yet people tried to keep the discussion on the syntax which is much more WIFOMy. These people who ignored the context inadvertently tried to frame Drac, assuming that Drac didn't actually write this post. And of course, anyone who ignored the discussion is suspicious.

So... people don't want to discuss this lead? Fantastic... .---.

Reactions so far:

@firekitten --- says that he wouldn't know how people type, and so the lead is confusing, and ignores the other three questions. Then proceeds to talk about Drac's claim and then about buildings, which I don't think was particularly new / contributory information. I really don't like this particular post of firekitten's, because it looks like he's trying steer the discussion away from meaningful scumhunt.
@roz_the_eevee --- sorta ignores the lead; wants Drac lynched because of his counterclaim. Why did you avoid my questions? Similar to the above, I feel that Roz doesn't like this discussion and is trying to avoid it (maybe to push a mislynch on Drac?).
@Zone Q11 --- says that the lead is not useful, without elaborating. Cheers. Proceeds to vote GM Drac and then me anyways. Why are you being vague and difficult?
@Kiiruma --- makes no reference to the lead.
@GMDraclord --- above, although is probably explained by business
@VioletValkyrie --- No idea why Violet also ignored this lead.


I would like Kiiruma // GM Drac // Violet to discuss the lead provided by Luis so that we can continue with this day.

 

[bbninjas]

**adding potential candidates

-- Someone who had left PokeBeach and returned only recently. Potential candidates: Dogger
-- Someone who wanted to leave an in-game event. Potential candidates: NONE -- none of the activities during Day 1 could be "left"
-- Someone who wanted to leave (sub out) from the game. Potential candidates: Kiiruma (dogger), Violet (Shaymin), Math (Mega), maybe Aqua
-- Someone who wanted to leave a scumchat or in-game chat. Potential candidates: anyone, but I agree with Zone's rejection -- normally you can't leave chats

 

[bbninjas]

The answer to the second question is because despite this being a lead, I want a 100% scumlynch. Also, I wouldn't know who to lynch between the three of them. --that is, until MathBlade disappointed my expectations of him.

Lemme just point out that you never stated why in that post, and your reasoning was only vaguely implied in later posts.

If you want a 100% scumlynch, then you are playing the wrong game. This is mafia. You win by using leads and logic. You've narrowed it down to three people using the lead: Violet (Shaymin), Kiiruma (dogger), Mathblade (Mega). You could narrow this further by potentially asking questions to figure out who out of Shaymin / Dogger / Mega would post in Discord with grammar like this: "people would wonder why i left"

Then you can just logically compare the posts of the remaining players and lynch who you find most scummy, like you would normally.

 

[Kiiruma]

I just didn't see how the typing was a necessarily important thing to talk about. Why would I mention it anyway when I literally know nobody out of the suspect pool here?
Also, as I think somebody explained this is a bastard game. Isn't it possible a scum role gives out mechanical info like "Someone can read what you post here. Be careful"?

 

[bbninjas]

You forget he promised you someone dead
If you post theirs name in bold red.
I also got if I'm indie text,
So we should push messager next.
Either town who creates info out of lies
Or scum confusing us weird tries.

@VioletValkyrie could you tell me who the messenger is
bbninja doesn't out, despite crimes his.

I think they started confusing people after I called them out
If town would ask me if I'm scum or indie I seriously doubt
Even less that they didn't out me claiming to them scum
So bb denying outing is literaly dumb.

I've already said that Agent X is very probably town (in my books at least), and so I don't want to tell the mafians who I think Agent X is. From the first post Roz, you don't seem to really care about Agent X's alignment which is a problem in itself -- you would lynch them if they were town (for lying), and you would lynch them if they were scum (for lying).

But think about it; would a mafian really do all this?

1. Would a mafian really craft such an elaborate scheme just to weasel a claim from me? They even wrote a whole segment about why I should claim if I'm a mafian, even though I'm not.
2. Why wouldn't a mafian just push for my lynch instead, and get a roleclaim defacto? They could have falsified a cop scan, for example.
3. Why would a mafian seriously push for my lynch because I claimed to have a "confidant", if they knew that I was innocent and that I could probably justify myself?
4. Why would a mafian send a PM to two different people? They could have just sent it to one.
5. Why would a mafian backpedal and apologise for pushing my lynch -- even though he could've legitimately repeated their earlier stance, that "bbninjas will say anything to get out of this"?
6. Why would a mafian backpedal even when the town didn't oppose the lynch option?

Agent X being town just makes much more sense. Townspeople overthink things because they are underinformed. Agent X wanted to catch me out based on information they'd learnt (i.e. they are scumhunting and is pro-town), and his method of doing this makes sense from their perspective. Agent X sent a message to two people in case Violet was in cahoots with me. Agent X apologised when faced with the facts, which is re-evaluating their lead and is pro-town scumhunting. Agent X even admitted that he was too jumpy and that this was a mistake (and learning from mistakes === pro-town). Do town lie? Yeah. Do town make mistakes? Absolutely.

 

[roz_the_eevee]

you would lynch them if they were town (for lying), and you would lynch them if they were scum (for lying).

I want to know who they are so I can judge it
But your mind is made up, nothing gonna budge it.

• Would a mafian really craft such an elaborate scheme just to weasel a claim from me? They even wrote a whole segment about why I should claim if I'm a mafian, even though I'm not.

• Why wouldn't a mafian just push for my lynch instead, and get a roleclaim defacto? They could have falsified a cop scan, for example.

• Why would a mafian seriously push for my lynch because I claimed to have a "confidant", if they knew that I was innocent and that I could probably justify myself?

• Why would a mafian send a PM to two different people? They could have just sent it to one.

• Why would a mafian backpedal and apologise for pushing my lynch -- even though he could've legitimately repeated their earlier stance, that "bbninjas will say anything to get out of this"?

• Why would a mafian backpedal even when the town didn't oppose the lynch option?

Cause his text to me was obviously bad
So to not get caught and make scum sad
He had to cover it fast and it was his try
And meanwhile info from you spy

 

[roz_the_eevee]

Answer me - why would he not claim,
When I said I'm theirs guy?
For that I'm gonnna blame
And I don't accept them being shy.

 

[bbninjas]

I want to know who they are so I can judge it
But your mind is made up, nothing gonna budge it.

And what are you hoping "to judge" if I am to say who I think (emphasis on think) Agent X is?

Cause his text to me was obviously bad
So to not get caught and make scum sad
He had to cover it fast and it was his try
And meanwhile info from you spy

This doesn't actually answer any of my questions, except for maybe Q5, but it doesn't consider Q6.
You don't say why Agent X's text is so obviously bad.
You don't give a reason as to why Agent X felt he was going to be caught / the need to cover up, considering Q6, that the town didn't really oppose my lynch.
You say he was trying to get info from me, but you don't respond to Q1 and the paragraph below that, where I say why this scheme seems too elaborate for a mafian.

Answer me - why would he not claim,
When I said I'm theirs guy?
For that I'm gonnna blame
And I don't accept them being shy.

I do not understand "When I said I'm their's guy".

 

[bbninjas]

Okay, finally going to submit my votes @NinjaPenguin

Spoiler

1. Kiiruma
2. MathBlade
3. TeamAqua4Life
4. roz_the_eevee
5. firekitten
6. Zone
7. GM Draclord
8. VioletValkyrie
   
9. Luispipe8
   
10. Professor_jplap
11. bbninjas

Reasoning for Kiiruma: I think that dogger (Kiiruma) was concerned about "people wondering why he left" because he left the Beach and only just returned, although he also fits the substitutes theory. Kiiruma has also been rather scummy recently: they have been avoiding discussion about this lead, is providing WIFOMy reasoning in attempt to invalidate it, and -- as evident in their "wish" post -- they have suddenly become focused on "making pro-town decisions" ever since their name has been thrown around.

Math is next by POE if Kiiruma is not mafian, that is my only reason. Aqua is far too inactive as per usual. Roz has been increasingly weird as of late (focusing too much on Agent X, disregarding the lead but can't articulate why), and I find it coincidental that their (presumably) secondary objective is to post in couplets, when the mafia vig kills people based on people post.

I just didn't see how the typing was a necessarily important thing to talk about. Why would I mention it anyway when I literally know nobody out of the suspect pool here?

The typing / syntax / formatting wasn't the only part of the lead. If you didn't see how the typing was important, why didn't you just admit that? Instead, you ignored it entirely and that conveys a very different message.

Also, as I think somebody explained this is a bastard game. Isn't it possible a scum role gives out mechanical info like Someone can read what you post here. Be careful?

This is WIFOM, which isn't a reason to disregard an entire read. Sure it's possible, but anything's possible -- the question is whether it's likely. If we wrote off every read because it's possible..., then we would never catch anyone. The scum knowing about Luis' role is unlikely because it makes the Luis' role virtually pointless, based on precedent here on the 'Beach, and because it turns the scumchat into catastrophe of meaningless, repetitive messages as the mafians defend themselves against the role -- which is no fun for anyone, including the host.

But again, instead of just ignoring it and hoping that the discussion would die out, you could have said what you thought about the lead instead.

 

[roz_the_eevee]

This doesn't actually answer any of my questions, except for maybe Q5, but it doesn't consider Q6.
You don't say why Agent X's text is so obviously bad.
You don't give a reason as to why Agent X felt he was going to be caught / the need to cover up, considering Q6, that the town didn't really oppose my lynch.
You say he was trying to get info from me, but you don't respond to Q1 and the paragraph below that, where I say why this scheme seems too elaborate for a mafian.

I'm not telling that he felt caught after contacting you,
I was contacted first and agent didn't think it through.
I called earlier at day that messanger is being scum
And then messages to others began dumb

 

[roz_the_eevee]

I find it coincidental that their (presumably) secondary objective is to post in couplets, when the mafia vig kills people based on people post.

If I was scum and knew how vig kills,
I wouldn't post in couplets, unless for thrills.

 

[Kiiruma]

I'll full claim if needed. I really need to not die today.
Every day I provide usefulness. Also y'all trust Firekitten. So as I said @firekitten can confirm my action. Or at least he can at the very end of the day.
Once votes have been done and we'd move on, I guarantee I will be confirmed. If not, I welcome any occupations/kills on me.
I claim something which is fully self resolving. 'Tis safe to let me confirm myself, right? After all, I chose someone I townread and y'all do too in order to confirm me!

 

[Zone Q11]

Hooray... Quotes are still bugged. Regarding the case on jplap being scum: I deny it. I have no proof, but my counterargument is: Last time I played with him, he went silent as well.

 

[Zone Q11]

Spoiler: VOTE

1. MathBlade
2. TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK
3. GM Draclord
4. Kiiruma
5. Zone Q11
6. bbninjas
7. VioletValkyrie
8. firekitten
9. Luispipe8
10. roz_the_eevee
11. Professor_jplap

 

[Kiiruma]

@bbninjas yes, I have no evidence to support the possibility of a scum mechanics revealer.
However, isn't it best to discuss everything? Throwing out possibilities without thinking about them all is a big problem.
Does anyone know if one of these has existed in the past? Or am I just being crazy with this suggestion?

Also I do not deny that I've probably overlooked things on the lead, I'm just not used to wording of people and typing styles here.
Other than that there wasn't much to talk about except if it's a frame/not and how others have reacted to it.
Yet reacting to reactions of a lead just seems incredibly feeble for a case to me. I'm not sure about how to feel

 

[Professor_jplap]

@bbninjas I believe I'm confirmed as town...

I guess it couldn't hurt to vote. Especially since I have nothing to worry about with everyone knowing I'm town.



5. TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK
7. bbninjas
3. Luispipe8
8. Kiiruma
1. Zone Q11
2. GMDracLord
4. MathBlade
6. VioletValkyrie
9. roz_the_eevee
10. firekitten

 

[MathBlade]

**adding potential candidates

-- Someone who had left PokeBeach and returned only recently. Potential candidates: Dogger
-- Someone who wanted to leave an in-game event. Potential candidates: NONE -- none of the activities during Day 1 could be "left"
-- Someone who wanted to leave (sub out) from the game. Potential candidates: Kiiruma (dogger), Violet (Shaymin), Math (Mega), maybe Aqua
-- Someone who wanted to leave a scumchat or in-game chat. Potential candidates: anyone, but I agree with Zone's rejection -- normally you can't leave chats

??? On the last one I don’t. This is bastard. Trying to outguess the mod is like trying to tack a real number on infinity.

 

[MathBlade]

I've already said that Agent X is very probably town (in my books at least), and so I don't want to tell the mafians who I think Agent X is. From the first post Roz, you don't seem to really care about Agent X's alignment which is a problem in itself -- you would lynch them if they were town (for lying), and you would lynch them if they were scum (for lying).

But think about it; would a mafian really do all this?

1. Would a mafian really craft such an elaborate scheme just to weasel a claim from me? They even wrote a whole segment about why I should claim if I'm a mafian, even though I'm not.
2. Why wouldn't a mafian just push for my lynch instead, and get a roleclaim defacto? They could have falsified a cop scan, for example.
3. Why would a mafian seriously push for my lynch because I claimed to have a "confidant", if they knew that I was innocent and that I could probably justify myself?
4. Why would a mafian send a PM to two different people? They could have just sent it to one.
5. Why would a mafian backpedal and apologise for pushing my lynch -- even though he could've legitimately repeated their earlier stance, that "bbninjas will say anything to get out of this"?
6. Why would a mafian backpedal even when the town didn't oppose the lynch option?

Agent X being town just makes much more sense. Townspeople overthink things because they are underinformed. Agent X wanted to catch me out based on information they'd learnt (i.e. they are scumhunting and is pro-town), and his method of doing this makes sense from their perspective. Agent X sent a message to two people in case Violet was in cahoots with me. Agent X apologised when faced with the facts, which is re-evaluating their lead and is pro-town scumhunting. Agent X even admitted that he was too jumpy and that this was a mistake (and learning from mistakes === pro-town). Do town lie? Yeah. Do town make mistakes? Absolutely.

+1

 

[MathBlade]

Answer me - why would he not claim,
When I said I'm theirs guy?
For that I'm gonnna blame
And I don't accept them being shy.

... Reeeeeaaaaallly you’re “their guy” suuuuure
They coulda just sent you that thingie that you need or keep asking about
Cmon roz