Finished Mafia LII : The Game World

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Camoclone said:
Why do you think Mord voted me?
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Because you don’t defend the case on you of twisting and lying and instead hides behind players notion that it is your play style as Camoplay.
You ignore the case on you by calling it OMGUS and manipulate the case I have on you to be instead of what it actually is to “Camo push my lynch therefore he is scum”- which can be said on every other player on my wagon-that’s why you repeat the question of why I am ignoring other people who voted me- that is to convince people that this is my case on you when it is not. And also you make sure to blend my case on you with my defense for the case on me to further convince that the case on you is OMGUS.
 
Uh, why are we lynching mord? Because he finds Camo suspicious and hasn't clearly stated why? He has implied it already, and if I'm interpreting it correctly, it's a fair point. I wouldn't be considering it telling personally, but it's not indicative of morda's alignment!

This is just an easy lynch that is taking advantage of morda not being clear and explicit, and avoiding getting scattered lynched.

mordacazir said:
I dont really know what camo does day 1 because I'm not in a game with him very often (the most recent one was pirates I think where I got lynched day 1). But maybe its just me but his behavior is overall weird and doesnt make a town impression on me.
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What specifically about Camoclone's behaviour do you find weird? (I am asking this question to clarify what morda meant.)

Camoclone said:
Because scattered is incredibly scummy and I’m the player that scum wants to kill. On the offchance they sneak a lynch on me they are in a tremendous position to win the game. They can push a lynch for SM day two. The vote count implies that I’m actually on the table to someone lurking like Mord. Fortunately SM is scum too though.
##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: MORDACAZIR
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I do not understand your argument for lynching mordacazir over scattered today.
 
##UNVOTE ##VOTE: scattered

scattered should be lynched today. The saga where scattered thought I was threatening / scaring him into to not posting is plenty for me to be happy with this lynch; all the little aggressive / defensiveness / feeling like they're being constantly attacked shows that this behaviour is consistent and this wasn't just a single poor play.

scattered mind said:
The only thing that was out of my usual character was the reaction to bbninjas, but it simply came out wrong- it wasn’t me thinking bbninjas tried to threat me to not talking, but to get him to explain himself and not say vague statements like “We got some info on you”
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Funnily enough, this is the first time (at least that I've seen) that this line of defense has been used by scattered regarding his over-reaction. He first tried to justify his response, then basically agreed with the point and agreed his reaction was unwarranted. Now he's saying that's not how he meant it. If that was actually true, he would have given that defense when he was first pulled up on it.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
If scattered is town and morda scum, why does he do this? That is to say, why have you chosen this vote over scattered?
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If sm is town and mord is scum then no, he has no reason to try to save sm. However:

bbninjas said:
Uh, why are we lynching mord? Because he finds Camo suspicious and hasn't clearly stated why?
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mord is going all in on keeping scattered alive and putting faith in sm's case on camo. The case is horrible, even for day one standards. Given the option to lynch camo or lynch sm, I don't understand why any townie would choose to lynch camo. sm's entire case on him is based on one game where camo, as scum, pushed sm's lynch, and I guess he didn't even get lynched in the end? Never mind the fact that in sm's own example he shows that in most of the games where camo voted on the d1 lynch, camo was town.

Meanwhile, sm's acted defensive when the situation didn't call for it and he's pushing his town meta on us as if we're supposed to just believe it. The argument for sm's lynch is based around something more than a proven flawed meta read, which is why it's strange that mord is calling for camo's lynch.

scattered mind said:
Also PMJ- you say you don’t believe in meta reads- is it different when it comes to Camo?
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Of course not. Why would it be?
 
PMJ said:
If sm is town and mord is scum then no, he has no reason to try to save sm. However:



mord is going all in on keeping scattered alive and putting faith in sm's case on camo. The case is horrible, even for day one standards. Given the option to lynch camo or lynch sm, I don't understand why any townie would choose to lynch camo. sm's entire case on him is based on one game where camo, as scum, pushed sm's lynch, and I guess he didn't even get lynched in the end? Never mind the fact that in sm's own example he shows that in most of the games where camo voted on the d1 lynch, camo was town.

Meanwhile, sm's acted defensive when the situation didn't call for it and he's pushing his town meta on us as if we're supposed to just believe it. The argument for sm's lynch is based around something more than a proven flawed meta read, which is why it's strange that mord is calling for camo's lynch.



Of course not. Why would it be?
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Then the way Camo twisted my words is not scummy to you because..? Or you just don’t think it was twisting for some reason?
 
No one but you thinks I’ve twisted anything. To be perfectly clear I’m very happy with Mord or SM.
 
Some replied but only to say it is just how Camo plays, which is what I am talking about. I think your play as town is pushy and ignore defense, but less twisting.
 
I'd like to clarify re: Camo; Camo hasn't twisted persay (except for that one instance where he interpeted the situation incorrectly, which could just be a mistake), but he's simplified and placed too much emphasis on weaker elements on your case, which can appear as if Camo is twisting words. FTR, I think Camo has being playing very pro-town this game (unlike some of his previous >.>). He's not being particularly suffocating, loud, controlling, etc; and he's scumhunting for the town instead of just himself - he's explaining his scumhunt and not locking tunnel vision exclusively on one or two people.

PMJ said:
If sm is town and mord is scum then no, he has no reason to try to save sm. However:

mord is going all in on keeping scattered alive and putting faith in sm's case on camo. The case is horrible, even for day one standards. Given the option to lynch camo or lynch sm, I don't understand why any townie would choose to lynch camo. sm's entire case on him is based on one game where camo, as scum, pushed sm's lynch, and I guess he didn't even get lynched in the end? Never mind the fact that in sm's own example he shows that in most of the games where camo voted on the d1 lynch, camo was town
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So... why aren't we lynching scattered first?? The case on mord seems to be mostly rooted in scattered being scummy / flipping scum.

If mord was scum and scattered was town, then mord definitely has no reason to save scattered, and especially stick his neck out on one of the worst (as has been widely agreed on) options? This option doesn't make sense.

If mord was town and scattered was scum (or town), and mord genuinely thought scattered was innocent, then we're still mislynching a townie - so no point.

If mord was scum and scattered was scum, which is the only situation where mord's vote on Camo is scummy, then we may as well lynch scattered first. (If scattered is innocent, then the case on morda is very slight.)
 
PMJ said:
How? This statement isn't qualified by anything. Your previous posts were all irrelevant RVS dumbness or status updates. You said you've played a couple games before and lurked the last one so you should know better than to make blind posts like that. The position on the wagon leads me to believe you tried to either hammer, miscounting like sm did, or get in on what was looking to be a surefire lynch. Camo's case isn't perfect, but it's good enough for day one, I think, so sm flipping town could be explained away fairly easy. Either way, this vote is ultra sketchy.

##vote: GamePhoenix
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PMJ said:
bbninjas said:
@PMJ Did you know that GamePhoenix said he has played a couple real life games, as oppose to forum, post-based games?
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Yeah. That doesn't really change anything, though. The way he said sm was scummy implies he knows what scummy behavior is, but he doesn't care to elaborate on his accusation. Just jumps in, agrees that [current lynch target] is scummy, votes, and dips out. Given that he hasn't posted much outside of rvs, I find the motives behind his sudden vote suspicious. He had to have known that sm was close to a hammer when he cast his vote.
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Sure, but your viewpoint was that GP shouldn't be making blind posts. You disregarded the possible explanation for this - "GamePhoenix is a new player" - because he's played a couple of games before. However, casual real life games are quite different - making 'blind statements' is perfectly normal due to the fast nature of the game - as is 'jumping in, agreeing, voting and dipping out' (this plays out as 'speaking up, nodding head, voting, and moving on). Therefore, those couple of games wouldn't be enough experience to discount a "he's just new" explanation.
 
So Camo read the situation incorrectly? That’s new . Would explain PMJ’s reaction to my comment earlier too. And bbninjas. Basically what I already said.. my attempts to get reads and reactions out of posts that involve me without consider the possibility to come off as defensive when I approach them in depth makes me a huge scummy player. I mean, it’s too late, but st least I learned my lesson for next time? Yaayy....
 
scattered mind said:
Then the way Camo twisted my words is not scummy to you because..? Or you just don’t think it was twisting for some reason?
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I don't think he twisted your words. Camo never said you said that tagging people was scummy, but the conclusion you were jumping to was that he was talking directly to you.

bbninjas said:
So... why aren't we lynching scattered first?? The case on mord seems to be mostly rooted in scattered being scummy / flipping scum.
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If they're both scum it doesn't matter who we lynch first, but I see your point. Like GP, I wanted an answer from mord.

bbninjas said:
mord definitely has no reason to save scattered, and especially stick his neck out on one of the worst (as has been widely agreed on) options?
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Who else said the camo case was awful other than me?

bbninjas said:
Therefore, those couple of games wouldn't be enough experience to discount a "he's just new" explanation.
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He lurked the last game. He should be at least a little familiar with how forum mafia works if that's the case.

scattered mind said:
I agree with bbninjas, guys just hop off that weird wagon on morda.
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Sure thing, chief.

##unvote
##vote scattered mind
 
But bb, you said Camo was manipulative. At least that’s what I remember. I’ll go back to see if there is a contradiction there.
 
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