Getting around Garchomp with RayEels

Puff-Sun

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So in Japan, Garchomp is seeing some play, and is being praised as a counter to RayEels, much like Terrakion is to Zekeels. So the question for those of us who are going to be playing RayEels is this: How to get around this deck that is built to beat you? You can't tech in something with resistance, like Tornadus for Terrakion, beacause as of now no cards that resist {DRG} have been printed (that i know of). So you're left with a few options:

Raikou Ex: This is what I think will be the best counter for Garchomp. since Garchomp decks need Altaria to score OHKOs and Gabite to stream garchomps, you can easily put down a raikou EX, dyanmotor, retreat, and snipe off an altaria. not only can they no longer KO your Rayquaza EX, They can't KO your raikou, so It's free to switch to the bench to charge again while Rayquaza kills their chomp. They can't kill quaza, so you retreat and kill their other altaria. then you just sweep with Rayquaza EX

Rayquaza (Dragon Selection): This card simply evens the prize race. It OHKOs and gets OHKOd, just like its EX version. However, unlike the EX version, it doesn't give up 2 prizes whenever it gets KOd. It's also basic, and therefore a little easier to get out than Garchomp.

Tornadus EX: This is praised right now as the counter to Terrakion, and it's possible that it could fill the same role next format. It has incredible speed, being able to get large amounts of damage turn 1 and continue to put pressure on the opponent throughout the game. This is especially effective against evolution-based ecks, as you can mow down their basics at the beginning of the game to have a large lead that they have o come back from. It also isn't weak to {DRG}, which is always a plus.

Zekrom: This card is still a major threat in today's metagame, and could very well continue to be one in tomorrow's. It works on the same principal as normal rayquaza, however, it trades off power for speed. It's much easier to set up than Rayquaza, but it only deals 120 to a garchomp on the first hit, and Garchomp can OHKO it back due to its own recoil damage. With an Eviolite, however, this all changes. You can easily take a hit from a garchomp and hit them back for a bunch of damage with Outrage.

I can't think of anything else that would really work here. If anyone else has any ideas, post them and I'll put them here. I'll be running RayEels next format, especially with the release of the tins with Rayquaza EX in them, so I need a way to get around all the players at my league who will play Garchomp because it fits their playstyle so well.
 
Thudurus or Tornadus could work. They OHKO Altaria and 2HKO Garchomp. And with Eviolite, it can survive Garchomps first attack, and can sometimes survive the second attack. Thundurus would be a better idea because Garchomp would discard Tornadus's DCE. I'll also be playing Eelquaza (Eelquaza sounds cooler then RayEels) after rotation. So I'll have to test out some of these counters myself.

Good luck testing these.
 
Truthfully, it's going to be a hard matchup no matter what. Normal Rayquaza seems like the best option to even out the prize trade, but it's still difficult to get that out and set up. Rayeels functions by setting up quickly and simply rampaging through the opponents team before they have a chance to do anything. If you manage to get a perfect set up, you still have a chance.
 
I'm actually thinking of teching in a Zekrom too. Let it soak up some damage and then just Outrage. PlusPower is also still a thing. I feel like Enhanced Hammer could really help out too, because of all the Blend Energy your opponent will be playing. Just another option. Thundurus is probably my best bet because it is still a nice starter, and has the capability of OHKOing an Altaria as Machamp mentioned. Also, it can survive a hit from Garchomp anyways, so it'll be able to deal a quick 80 and then have a charged-up Ray EX on the Bench hit it with a quick 120 for the KO. (Or Zekrom.)
 
I don't really see the problem here, but maybe that's because I don't have a prober Garchomp/Altaria list to test against.
How would you spawn these Altarias and Garchomps without Collector and Dual Ball. Use Elgyem?
The ball engine just doesn't seems to be enough.
 
Simwar said:
I don't really see the problem here, but maybe that's because I don't have a prober Garchomp/Altaria list to test against.
How would you spawn these Altarias and Garchomps without Collector and Dual Ball. Use Elgyem?
The ball engine just doesn't seems to be enough.

Gabite's Dragon Call. With just a basic and a stage 1, both Level Ball searchable, they now have a dragon card from their deck every turn without even using up a card from their hand. It is actually a very consistent deck because once they have up a Gabite or two they can swarm evolved dragons in just 1-2 turns, then very easily start hitting for 80-140 (the numbers I generally hit with the deck unless something ridiculous like all 3 Altaria being prized happens) every single turn.

Really, I don't think that Rayeels is actually all that good anymore. Its great against EXes because it can OHKO them for two prizes, but against non-EXes you're generally trading prizes, but often with heavier setup required and less consistency.
 
Aah yes, didn't notice there were two different Gabites.
I see that working really well.
But wouldn't it be likely that people started using Garbodor? This deck is useless without its abilities.
 
Beacuse I'll be playing Swarm Quazaboar, Ill just use a ton of eviolite and catcher, and like one or two RegQuazas, and maybe a Zekrom.
 
That's exactly why Tool Scrapper will be included. Also, I wouldn't really say this deck is useless, since it only takes one Catcher to KO the Garbador in case you don't have a Tool Scrapper.
 
Great job... xD

BUT if they use Large Cloak you can't OHKO them. Right? Or did I miss something again :p
 
That's true, if they're using Large Cloak over Rescue Scarf you'd have to Tool Scrapper or 2HKO it. Still, they're dedicating lots of spots in their deck just to lock your added 20 damage. I kind of doubt that too many people will actually run Garbador.
 
Okay, I'll have to admit that I was once again totaly wrong about how the format is gonna look.
Before Dark Explores I was like: "Darkrai? Yea, it will drop to about 30$ in a few weeks when people realize it's not so good" and then I ended up playing it myself at Nationals xD
I was sure that Rayquaza would rule the BW-on format, but after playtesting it against Garchomp/Altaria (with the right Garbite :p ) I now see that it is not gonna be like that. If GarTaria is set up, it would be suicide to drop a Rayquaza against it, meening that you wasted a lot of the deck space you used to make Rayquaza consistent.
Even with Zekrom EX to OHKO Garchomp and Max Potions to make it harder for them to KO the EXs it is gonna be quite an even match-up. You were right about Tornadus-EX being really good in an atemp to outspeed them, but if you rely too much on Tornadus-EX you'll be in trouble everytime you face another ZekEel deck.
I got my worlds invite, but I can't afford going there, so right now I'm looking forward to do some more playtesting with these new decks :)
 
That is why you dont run straight rayeels you just play eelektrik and friends and throw in like 2 rayquaza and have more attackers like raikou and zekrom
 
Your Master said:
That is why you don't run straight rayeels you just play eelektrik and friends and throw in like 2 rayquaza and have more attackers like raikou and zekrom

Of course, but you still have to dedicate some valuable space for fire energy and maybe a energy retrieval. And this space would be nearly wasted against this matchup.
 
Your Master said:
That is why you don't run straight rayeels you just play eelektrik and friends and throw in like 2 rayquaza and have more attackers like raikou and zekrom

As Simwar said. It would take up allot of space to make Rayquaza EX work in Eelektrik. I think you should ether go straight Rayquaza EX/Eelektrik, Rayquaza EX with a few other attackers that work with Eelektrik (Zekrom, Thundurus, Raikou EX, Standard Rayquaza, etc), or avoid Rayquaza EX entirely. Eelquaza isn't just ZekEels with Rayquaza EX.
 
I'd devote a couple spaces to a Zekrom EX and maybe SSU. It friggin OHKOs Garchomps and they can't return it. Eventually, they will run out of Garchomps/Attackers while your only a couple attackers down. SSU help Raikou EX and Zekrom EX a ton because its all re attaching then Dynamotoring.
 
I just had an idea. What about Leavanny NV? Without Weakness, Garchomp's whole strategy comes apart.
 
@Puff: hmm In my testing I didn't have a lot of free bench space and they just can KO it and then kill your Ray's off, not a bad thought but I think it won't work.

I think that the teched in fire Energy is great when you are using Raikou EX, cause so you don't have to waste a DCE on it. I think that with secondary attackers as Thundurus and Zekrom and (what I just love *__*) Registeel EX, you can nearly even out the Match Up and the fire Energy is still usable.
But no matter what you do, you will still struggle against it, a fact you can only change through intense testing of the Match-Up
 
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