Empoleon / Dusknoir Post-Rotation

[Frost Mage]

Pokémon – 21

• 
  4 Piplup LTR RC6
  2 Prinplup LTR
  4 Empoleon PLF
  2 Duskull FLF
  1 Dusclops FLF
  2 Dusknoir BCR
  3 Miltank FLF
  1 Jirachi-EX
  1 Exeggcute PLF
  1 Mr. Mime PLF

Trainers – 33

• 
  4 Professor Juniper
  4 N
  2 Colress
  4 Skyla
  1 Pokémon Fan Club
  1 Lysandre
  4 Ultra Ball
  4 Rare Candy
  3 Muscle Band
  2 Switch
  1 Startling Megaphone
  1 Sacred Ash
  1 Energy Retrieval
  1 Dowsing Machine

Energy – 6

• 
  6 Water

This is the list for Empoleon/Dusknoir after rotation in the latest article on http://google.com/. It's close to my old list, but I tried it out, and I'm kind of questioning the consistency, honestly. But who knows, maybe I'm playing it wrong. Any thoughts?

Edited to coincide with the rules! ~Kecleon

 

[Teal]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

I won't leak my exact list but I recommend:
4-2-4 Empoleon
2-0-2 Dusknoir
4 Miltank
1 Exeggcute
(that's all Pokémon)
2-3 Lysandre
more Energy
1 Switch & Escape Rope & Float Stone

 

[Frost Mage]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

What about the mass amounts of Landorus there's going to be next season?

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

Pokémon – 21
4 Piplup LTR RC6
2 Prinplup LTR
4 Empoleon PLF
2 Duskull FLF
1 Dusclops FLF
2 Dusknoir BCR
3 Miltank FLF
1 Jirachi-EX
1 Exeggcute PLF
1 Mr. Mime PLF
Trainers – 33
4 Professor Juniper
4 N
2 Colress
4 Skyla
1 Pokémon Fan Club
1 Lysandre
4 Ultra Ball
4 Rare Candy
3 Muscle Band
2 Switch
1 Startling Megaphone
1 Sacred Ash
1 Energy Retrieval
1 Dowsing Machine
Energy – 6
6 Water

IMO, I too see some potential issues with this list:

• No Professor's Letter(s) incorporated in order to search and retrieve needed W energy. With just 6 total, one cannot rely upon "drawing into" this resource when needed.
• Insufficient number of Lysandre (especially with no Pal Pad).
• Potentially too many Supporter "clashes" could occur when running 4 Professor Juniper, 4 Skyla, 4 N and 2 Colress along with Poke-draw support. I replaced 2 PJs with 2 Bicycle (increases effectiveness of Skyla). Empoleon(s)' Diving Draw(s) reduced my reliance upon running 4 PJs.
• Insufficient number of Startling Megaphone especially when playing against a Garbodor deck.
• Jirachi EX may be more of a liability than an asset to this deck. If Jirachi EX is ever benched, it becomes an easy 2-prize target.

Following are some suggested changes for your consideration:

• 
  -1 Jirachi EX
  +1 Miltank - preferred starter that might survive more than 1 opponent's attack
  
  -2 Professor Juniper
  +1 Bicycle
  +1 Professor's Letter
  
  -1 Ultra Ball
  +1 Evosoda - found 1 to be quite useful, especially when running multiple Stage 1 Poke
  
  -1 Muscle Band - found not a strong need to rely upon these given Sinister Hand Ability
  +1 Pal Pad to recover and recycle needed Supporters

I hope you find these comments helpful.

---

What about the mass amounts of Landorus there's going to be next season?

IMO, your incorporation of a Mr. Mime will indeed serve you well. I expect F decks, including Landorus EX to be very popular (folks here have already been play-testing proxied decks since the English scans were released) - even despite playing against Empoleon-Dusknoir-Miltank decks.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to discuss (via PMs) the F decks' advantages they would have.

 

[Card Slinger J]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

I don't really see Empoleon/Dusknoir doing all that well in BCR-On with Seismitoad EX and Garbodor in the current meta. While Empoleon seems like a solid play against Landorus EX If your opponent somehow manages to get Item Lock on you 1st turn with Seismitoad EX you won't be able to get Empoleon out as fast as you want to unless you run Leafeon for Energy Crush with Silver Bangle/Muscle Band attached.

Empoleon isn't able to bench snipe Garbodor like Blaziken can so running multiples of Pokemon Catcher and/or Lysandre is what I'd recommend over Startling Megaphone/Tool Scrapper. Of course If they're running Mountain Ring or Mr. Mime for Bench Barrier that could spell even more trouble since unless you counter Stadium their Garbodor is safe from harm. Miltank's a really nice counter against Raichu since it only has 90 HP so no worries there.

I plan on playtesting Blaziken/Beartic/Leafeon for BCR-On since it's arguably the only Stage 2 deck in the format that doesn't rely on abilities to be competitive. Blaziken is great for bench sniping Garbodor with Burning Shot for 2 Fire and 1 DCE as long as Mountain Ring or Mr. Mime isn't in play which can be migitated with a 1-1 Garbodor tech, Beartic one shots Landorus EX using Igloo Hold with Silver Bangle attached, and Leafeon's my counter against Seismitoad EX to get out of Item Lock.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

Btw, was that 6P post before the expected rotation or after?

Interestingly enough, I can see Empoleon as a viable deck in the post-rotation meta. However, I don't think Miltank with be that viable given the presumed popularity of the FuF F decks that can easily 1HKO Miltanks and even Empoleons (given a particular build).

At one point in time last season, I ran a 2-2 Leafeon (Energy Crush) in my Empoleon deck as a means to counter Darkrai and Yveltal decks that needed lots of energy in play. So, you could incorporate this Poke as a replacement to Miltank. Should you utilize Energy Crushing Leafeon, it will also be a strong counter to Seismitoad EX.

 

[Card Slinger J]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

Empoleon could help cover for Miltank If it's going up against Landorus EX, Lucario EX, Machamp, or even Donphan but it won't do as much good If those Fighting decks are running Raichu to counter Empoleon which at this point with Yveltal EX taking a huge hit from the rotation with the loss of Dark Patch and Sableye as well as Lugia EX seeing less play I don't see Riachu being a solid contender in the format while the loss of Level Ball hurt it's consistency a bit as well.

 

[Frost Mage]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

Btw, was that 6P post before the expected rotation or after?

Interestingly enough, I can see Empoleon as a viable deck in the post-rotation meta. However, I don't think Miltank with be that viable given the presumed popularity of the FuF F decks that can easily 1HKO Miltanks and even Empoleons (given a particular build).

At one point in time last season, I ran a 2-2 Leafeon (Energy Crush) in my Empoleon deck as a means to counter Darkrai and Yveltal decks that needed lots of energy in play. So, you could incorporate this Poke as a replacement to Miltank. Should you utilize Energy Crushing Leafeon, it will also be a strong counter to Seismitoad EX.

It was after the rotation announcement. I used to play a 2-2 Leafeon line as well, but in the current meta (without Seismitoad), Miltank just requires an attachment to be doing 80+ damage, more than Leafeon does most of the time and it requires a longer setup.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Empoleon/Dusknoir Post-Rotation

Ok, thanks. I still have reservations about Miltank in today's format, playing against FuF decks. For example, when I play either of my FuF decks (Lucario-Landorus-Machamp and Seismitoad) against Empire, I've been able to typically KO multiple Miltank(s) and/or Duskull/Dusknoir, attach energy onto benched Poké for future KOs, and manage a small bench (to limit Empoleon's damage output). I also employ a tactic to minimize Sinister Hand effectiveness too. Needless to say, Leafeon could change my game plan with minimizing my bench Poké and stockpiling energy.

On the other hand, when I run Seismitoad, Item-lock can be severely cripple my Empire-running opponent and yield advantages.

I just don't know yet if Miltank would be my preferred attacker vs. Energy Crushing Leafeon, especially now with the release of the FuF set.