Deck Discussion #3: Luxape

B

Blue Thunder

so long!
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I was originally going to talk about another deck today, but after seeing it win the USA Nationals in Masters, I believe it should be our next deck discussion. The next one will be due on Thursday, July 2.

Today's thread will be about Luxray GL (Rsing Rivals) and Infernape 4 (Rising Rivals). Between both of their Level Xs, you'll be hard pressed to keep anything in the Active position. Both of thse cards also hit for big amounts of damage for little energy and Energy Gain, with Luxray hitting 60 for 1 and Energy Gain, or 70 for 2 and Energy Gain. Infernape can hit for 100 for 2 with Energy Gain, and can even do a little spreading. Luxray also covers Infernape's weakness to Water, so it isn't uncommon to see Lucario GL (Rising Rivals) being teched in. Infernape can take care of the Fighting types Luxray is weak to as well.

In this and any deck discussion thread, the idea is to discuss the deck's possible techs, how it fares in the metagame, what Tier it is in, its counters, a good decklist for the deck, or just discussing the deck in general. Since this thread is about a Nationals winning deck, you can also discuss about how and why you think it won.

For the previous deck discussions, please click on the links below:

DD2: Dialga G/Legos: http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=56334
DD1: Blazetran: http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=56194

Now...discuss!
 
Honestly, if Nats were as flooded with Machamp as southern California is, Lux/Ape wouldn't have won. With Luxray x2 weak and Infernape pretty much requiring unown G to survive, Machamp has the upper hand in almost every way. Without energy gain, Infernape is just too slow.

Also, a smart Machamp player would only be dropping Uxies and not Claydols in order not to get stuck with a dead active. I dunno, just my 2 cents.
 
Ertai said:
Honestly, if Nats were as flooded with Machamp as southern California is, Lux/Ape wouldn't have won. With Luxray x2 weak and Infernape pretty much requiring unown G to survive, Machamp has the upper hand in almost every way. Without energy gain, Infernape is just too slow.

Also, a smart Machamp player would only be dropping Uxies and not Claydols in order not to get stuck with a dead active. I dunno, just my 2 cents.
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Unown G + Sunnyshore Gym takes care of the Machamp matchup. Not only that but Luxray can still drag up an Energy-less Machamp and snack on that for a while. Machamp gets thrashed by 90% of the format, which makes it a bit safer to keep this deck around. If you can only take on one big deck then you are not going to go too far.

I like this deck, but honestly the LuxTric version is fathoms better, just because it lost out to Luxape at Nationals doesn't mean that it is worse by any means.

If I was to compare the two, Infernape and Manectric that is, then Manectric wins by almost all accounts. You have free retreat on both the basic and the evolved form, you can spread for more than 2 shots of 20. You can abuse Sunnyshore much more, you can wreck heavy power decks like Gengar and other Luxapes, and you can actually block the backfire damage from Luxray instead of just taking it on a Crobat.
 
One of the best if not the best decks around now. It has great matchups and type coverage. I expect it highly at Worlds.

dmaster out.
 
Luxray's attacks are just mediocre damage-wise imo, but the combo is pretty nice with Ape E4. I like this deck for the synergy it has. Any Power-lock, if well-placed, will kill its pace easily, but then Infernape E4 can still nab a prize with his 100 damage attack. Which is awesome. Basically I really like the deck, it's just very vulnerable to being Sprayed. Still one of the more worthy Nats winners, imo.
 
Ertai said:
Honestly, if Nats were as flooded with Machamp as southern California is, Lux/Ape wouldn't have won.
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make that all of California. I live more up north in the bay area, and there's plenty machamp here too.
 
Played this deck at Nationals, was kinda fun but if you couldn't set up within the first three turns it seems too hard to recover. I had a hard time for some reason with Speedrill but I destroyed Gengars.
 
luxape's recent success says everything about its uber status. which means people will start teching heavily against it which will bring it back to earth a bit. luxray sp seems to have single handedly driven kingdra from the top tier and the dual weakness matchup against Legos pretty much dooms that deck as well. as long as luxape can snipe baltoy/claydols and power spray uxies early in a game it has a chance of beating anyone this side of mewtwo level x. anyone who can come up with a great non-power based draw engine will undo this deck immediately.
best tech in this deck, like all sp decks, is a leap-away promo toxicroak sp. recyclable revenge killers are always welcome.
 
It's really good, I'll say that. I mean, just switching the bench and snacking on poor, defenceless Pokemon is utterly powerful, being able to deal with Legoes, Dialga G, Kingdra, Machamp, AMU, and most decks out there. Honestly, it's a great deck. I regret not playing it.

But, trevorispro, LuxApe isn't the BDIF. Strong and good, maybe. But other decks can still beat it. You are running tons of Poke Powers, and Gengar can eat that. If you struggle to pull out Unown G, Machamp says hi. Legoes can lock you, losing your powers.
 
I am building it right now, and I think the hardest matchup is not Machamp, I believe it is Plox.
Gardy really kills this deck, it relies heavily on powers.
Techs that I use in my build(does anyone have a decklist for the one that won) are Unown G,Crobat G,Uxie and Azelf. Not creative but it works really well, with any luck I'll be playtesting it today.
 
Yeah I know, I forgot to mention that one as my techs.
I still am having a hard time seeing the point of it but since everyone else runs it that's pretty much why I squeezed it in.
 
good deck, but the ones i've seen aren't the most consistent. even with claydol, they're just too stuffed full of stuff to play a bunch of techs.
 
CFOURCOLTSFAN said:
Yeah I know, I forgot to mention that one as my techs.
I still am having a hard time seeing the point of it but since everyone else runs it that's pretty much why I squeezed it in.
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The point of LuxApe is to keep on switching who the Defedening Pokemon is. Since your two main attackers, Infernape 4 Lv.X and Luxray GL Lv.X, have a free retreat, you can move switch Pokemon and bring up another Pokemon who can type trump the new Defending Pokemon.
 
Does anyone have a decklist for a decent LuxApe deck? I'd like to try it as I already have the two Lv. X's and most staple cards.
 
Luxape is Tier 1. However, it has some major problems.

1. It will run out of steam sooner or later. This deck doesn't have enough room for a lot of energy, it usually runs between 11 and 14. Because Infernape is constantly discarding energy, and the deck doesn't need too many recovery cards, once you lose your Energy Gain it's pretty much game. You might be able to make a final stand with Luxray, but it won't be enough.

2. The fact that all of the main attackers use Poke-Powers force it to use Unown G vs. Gengar. It obviously has to use it vs. Machamp as well. These are some of the biggest decks around, so it does get hard. However, if the forms of these decks you play rely a lot on Claydol, it becomes a favorable matchup.

3. If you don't get the Cyrus chain going early enough, it becomes hard to win vs. anything somewhat fast (Speedrill, Gengar, Kingdra, etc.)

This deck won because the player obviously managed to make a consistent list. After an Uxie drop, he should have the Cyrus chain going. And he could obviously play okay without it. I'm guessing that there weren't as many Machamp and Gengar in the Masters division as there were in Seniors and Juniors. I saw the winning Gengar take a Luxape out in Top 32 of Seniors. It can be played around, but it's one of the best 3 decks out there.
 
Celebi23 said:
Luxape is Tier 1. However, it has some major problems.

1. It will run out of steam sooner or later. This deck doesn't have enough room for a lot of energy, it usually runs between 11 and 14. Because Infernape is constantly discarding energy, and the deck doesn't need too many recovery cards, once you lose your Energy Gain it's pretty much game. You might be able to make a final stand with Luxray, but it won't be enough.

2. The fact that all of the main attackers use Poke-Powers force it to use Unown G vs. Gengar. It obviously has to use it vs. Machamp as well. These are some of the biggest decks around, so it does get hard. However, if the forms of these decks you play rely a lot on Claydol, it becomes a favorable matchup.

3. If you don't get the Cyrus chain going early enough, it becomes hard to win vs. anything somewhat fast (Speedrill, Gengar, Kingdra, etc.)

This deck won because the player obviously managed to make a consistent list. After an Uxie drop, he should have the Cyrus chain going. And he could obviously play okay without it. I'm guessing that there weren't as many Machamp and Gengar in the Masters division as there were in Seniors and Juniors. I saw the winning Gengar take a Luxape out in Top 32 of Seniors. It can be played around, but it's one of the best 3 decks out there.
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The other two being?

Anyways, I DESPISE LuxApe. But I do because it's to easy to win with it.... In other words I think it's a nice Tier 1 deck, but boy did it come out differently huh? xD
 
Luxape is actually the most complicated deck I've ever played. I couldn't make a good list in time for Nationals. Now Gengar and Machamp are easy to win with. And what I think the best decks are are completely opinion, but I do have good reasons. However, I think it's fairly to tell what some of the best decks are. Take a look at what placed well at Nationals.
 
I never really understood LuxApe IMO, but that may be because I play Uxie over Claydol in most of my decks. At Nats, I can't believe it actually won Masters, I beat both of those I faced. But that was in major part due to Azelf MT. :p
 
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