OU: Strategy Competitive Discussion of the Week - 17

Uralya

Uralya

*ponders everything*
Member
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Welcome back to Competitive Discussion of the Week everybody! As the title implies, we will host a weekly discussion of various aspects of competitive battling, from viability to trends to combinations to "What if...?"'s and so forth. All input is encouraged in order to help the community get the best insights possible into the complex game that is Pokémon.

Based on your knowledge of the XY metagame and of what is known about the ORAS equivalent, how do you think the metagame will shift from XY? Old threats? Underrated existing threats? Dominant playstyles? Discuss!
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 1

With the new Megas arriving, I expect the game to shift more towards bulky offense or standard offense. Stuff like Slowbro, Metagross and Salamence carry terrifying offensive stats and more than generous defensive. I can't see any X/Y Pokemon which may see increase in potency and use, though through the move tutors there will be changes (I just don't know them).
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 1

To my knowledge, Mega Aerodactyl has gotten even better due to it outspeeding and killing the new speed creep megas such as Lopunny and Sceptile. Also, from what I've heard, Gallade is the new Megacham, despite having less immediate power, due to better speed and SD. Greninja may be broken now with Gunk Shot and maybe Low Kick, but I haven't played any ORAS OU yet to say for sure.
 
Competitive Discussion of the Week 2

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From your experiences playing with the new toys in ORAS, observations of such, or other means, which Mega Evolutions do you feel are the most threatening and/or game-changing?
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 2

Mega Salamence. But I don't know if its even worth to talk about since it is kind of obvious he will be banned soon.
Apart from him I think those are some of the best megas :

Mega Metagross - Great stats all around and great ability.
Access to a good priority move in the form of Bullet Punch that now got more viable thsnks to mega Diancie. It can use Agility but thanks to its high speed it has the option to go with another move and still make a great sweeper.

Mega Sableye - Kind of a special version of Bulky wow ZardX
With access to a first turn priority will-o-wisp or calm mind and the great Magic Bounce ability to prevent hazards and statuses.
It csn spread burns, set up and control hazards while also be a spinblocker. All this goods in one Poke.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 2

^These are all very true.

Mega Gallade and Mega Latias are also very dominant in OU.
Despite that they serve different roles, Gallade seems to one-up Medicham in almost every category, with speed, movepool, bulk and having the ability to set-up. Seeing how much of an upstart threat Medicham was after Aegislash's ban in XY makes one wonder how truly terrifying Gallade really is. A 3 Attacks+SD set will likely be the most popular way to abuse Gallade's great stat combination.
Latias, contrary to expectations, received the better end of the stick in terms of stat gains compared to Latios with the advent of ORAS. With 80/120/150 bulk and great typing, Mega Latias is so well-developed that it can make a mono-attacking CM set look good. This is definitely a defining threat of the ORAS metagame and bulky attackers in general.

Lastly, Mega Diancie is a very underrated threat in this game, as evidenced by a multitude of them being featured on teams topping the Smogon ladder. Overshadowed by Megas like Salamence in terms of offense and Slowbro on defense, Diancie is overlooked but very potent, being great offensively - with Rock Polish if desired to boot - and being the only Stealth Rock carrier endowed with Magic Bounce as well to gain notable hazard control. A Defog Lati@s paired with the latter version of this is a nice core in practice, as it takes pressure off of Diancie, who has no notable recovery options.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 2

Mega Gallade and Mega Diancie together are also very good example of how Mega Venusaur got pretty much the same viability in the new meta as it has so many threats like Mega Gallade and in the same time more Pokemon it can perform as a great threat against like Mega Diancie and Mega Altaria
This is one of the reasons I really think the new meta ( after MegaMence ban) will be good and balanced overall.
There are so many good Megas right now it is also very versatile metagame now and after everyone will over test the new Megas we will be at the point were every battle will look very different which will make people think harder while team building. (Unlike Ubers lol both primal and Mega Ray on every team )
 
Competitive Discussion of the Week 3

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Based on your experiences with the ORAS metagame, discuss the various Fighting-type Mega Evolutions in OU - Heracross, Gallade, Medicham, and Lopunny. How big are their respective impacts on the metagame? Do the older ones stay relevant?

P.S. Keep in mind the banning of Mega Salamence in regards to viability, etc.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 3

Personally, Gallade is one of the best overall Megas in the post-Salamence metagame and more than likely the most relevant of these four. He has a gigantic power increase and a very important speed boost that give Gallade the ability to outspeed a lot of things it desperately needed to. With access to two nice STAB moves and Swords Dance, Gallade can use its stat increases to setup and punch holes or straight-up sweep weakened teams with its Base 165 Close Combats. Gallade also can still take advantage of a typing that has lots of synergy with some of the metagames more prominent Pokemon, notably Greninja, Bisharp, and other dark-types. Such pairs do have issues with Mega Sableye, by a well-built team with Gallade is quite formidable because of Gallade's raw offenses and synergy (a Fairy like Specs Sylveon is a nice complement on offense to take MegaSab out). A+ or even S-level in my eyes - he has very few faults and makes a huge leap from every other fighting type available in some way or another.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 3

Lopunny is the other new addition in the gang, and while not sporting the raw power of the rest, it still has a considerable 136 Attack backed by an incredible 135 Speed. Essentially, this makes Mega Lopunny the fastest Pokemon in OU alongside Mega Manectric, putting it ahead of even some slower Scarfers. Also, Lopunny has a STAB combination that is unresisted by nearly all Pokemon in the game, giving it a nice advantage. While its lack of power may be detrimental, its perks are more than enough to earn it a spot in offensive teams as a cleaner.
 
Competitive Discussion of the Week 4

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Based on your experiences with the ORAS metagame, discuss the impact of Mega Sableye. How much does it alter the metagame? Stall teams?

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Competitive Discussion of the Week 5

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Based on your experiences with the ORAS metagame, discuss the impact of Greninja, one of the metagame's most prominent threats.

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RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 5

Overall, Greninja is arguably the generation's most ubiquitous offensive threat. With such great speed, Protean, the right toolbox of coverage to handle just about anything, and an ease of meshing into cores, Greninja embodies offensive utility. Being able to change typing for STAB makes it especially fearsome, and the defensive maneuver it can pull in triggering a resistance to an anticipated move is a nice bonus.

Utilizing such attributes, Greninja is a staple on many offensive teams and a slayer of many of the same Pokemon, doing to opposing offense what Kyurem-B and Manaphy do to stall - tear it a new one. It may not be able to switch on many attacks, but once it does come out, something might just need to be sacrificed to lure out the unpredictable side of its moveset. Gunk Shot with 40 Atk allows it to destroy Fairies like Azumarill, who formerly walled it, Extrasensory smacks Tentacruel hard, and near-maximized Low Kick drops the hammer on Chansey (the last one is rare), among other things. In essence, without the varied slots on its set exposed, Greninja is impossible to check or counter reliably, and offense has a hard time with this. Mach Punch, natural priority or speed, and Scarfers for revenge kills are about it, aside from baiting and smart switching.

Greninja's ease of fitting on teams is pretty well evidenced by its ability to cover any move type that its team needs. Grass Knot/HP Grass can be run for a lack of outside Grass coverage, just as Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Gunk Shot, and so on can do for their respective types. Greninja can even forego Hydro Pump and let another teammate like Keldeo or Rotom-W take that role thanks to Protean giving STAB to everything. To add inanity to injury, this supreme coverage is powerful enough to outright sweep some teams, as supported by the fact that the vast majority of OU's top Pokemon that Greninja can outspeed getting OHKOed by appropriate coverage.

It's relatively easy to see why Greninja is simultaneously feared and despised among the upper echelon of OU. It is near everywhere and can do near everything.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 5

Greninja is incredibly hard to counter, not only due to the power that Protean grants to every move, but also because its movepool is crammed with useful attacks to the point that you do not know what it may be carrying, making switching very risky. It's still very frail, but its Speed allows it to outspeed the majority of the metagame, meaning that checking with bulky Pokemon or use of powerful priority (sometimes taking advantage of Protean in the process) can really work against it.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 5

Greninja has no recovery options and cannot boost himself except the unviable PuP. That is why many will try to win him by using switch ins and hazards which together with Life Orb recoil really brings Greninja down to the red bar quickly.
Then comes Latias with Healing Wish and crashes your dreams.. Taunt user can help with that. Another thing that is so great about Greninja as said above me is its great speed. That is why using T-Wave can be helpful to slow him down.
 
Competitive Discussion of the Week 6

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Based on your experiences or theories, discuss the viability of lower-tier Pokemon in the current OU metagame (either specific Pokemon or in general).
 
Competitive Discussion of the Week 7

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Based on your experiences or philosophies, discuss the battle between power and accuracy in forming movesets (e.g. Rock Slide vs Stone Edge, Flamethrower vs Fire Blast, et cetera). What do you prefer if given a choice?
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 7

Just to get this out of my system.
The question of power and accuracy is not even a question. There are cases where you can't afford losing power, but there are no cases where you can't afford to lose accuracy. If a move is a 2HKO instead of a OHKO, you have to pick the stronger move, even if it costs you in accuracy, because you can't afford the other guy not dying. If you can, then it doesn't become the other way around, it just becomes a matter of personal preference.
 
RE: Competitive Discussion of the Week 7

I can see the appeal of accurate moves. It's nice to have something that's dependable, hitting just about every time you use it. However, in competitive play, the better move to go with can be the one that's less accurate.

Suppose that you want to give a pokemon a water type move to cover a certain threat. In this theoretical scenario, you have a choice between:

Surf90 Att.100 Acc.
Hydro Pump110 Att.80 Acc.

At first, it would seem that Surf is much more attractive. Hydro Pump misses, on average, once every fifth time it is used. For only a 20 attack power trade off, you have a move that hits just about every time you use it.

However, the idea isn't to put a water move on something just so it has a water move. If that water move doesn't reliably result in a KO on the theoretical threat, it might not be the right choice. Suppose that, using a damage calculator, it's determined that Surf only has a 65% chance of OHKOing the target. On the other hand, Hydro Pump, if successful, would OHKO the target 80% of the time by virtue of it's accuracy. It would seem that Hydro Pump would be the better choice.

Of course, Hydro Pump does miss. If that happens, the opponent remains at full HP. What then? The opponents pokemon remains at full HP, and they aren't going to be surprised by Hydro Pump anymore. There may even be times in which it fails to go off twice in a row, and it might even result in someone winning the match that shouldn't have. Hax happens.

Whether a move is more practical because it's accurate or more consistently gets a OHKO is something to be determined on a case by case basis during teambuilding. As much as I don't like when moves miss, there are times when a stronger, less accurate move is the more practical choice.
 
Competitive Discussion of the Week 8

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Based on your experiences, what do you think about the battle between priority and the Choice Scarf? Which is more valued and/or effective in this metagame?

To get the thought train going, here are some of the faces of both:

Priority- Scizor, Azumarill, Dragonite, Talonflame, Pinsir, Metagross, Bisharp, Mamoswine, Breloom, Conkeldurr
Choice Scarf- Landorus-T, Keldeo, Terrakion, Latios, Diggersby, Garchomp, Tyranitar
 
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