Finished Big Brother 8: Friends and Enemies

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by NinjaPenguin, Feb 16, 2020.

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  1. Lord o da rings ♕ The Queen ♕
    Lord o da rings


    Hey Violet (insert gif here), great to see you! Now, onto your request: flattery. The way I see it, your game stepped it up this season in every single major area: competitively, socially, and strategically.

    - Competitively it's obvious, you won every single comp you played in this season except the week 4 POV. Even though you are Violet and are known for being a comp queen, that was insane even for you. Your best competitive game yet by far. You won full control week 1, the following week's veto, week 3's HOH and then week 3's POV (though you gave up the veto itself for the advantage menu). It was terrifying to go up against, and I respect you putting forth such a powerful performance.
    - Socially, you made incredible improvements and made the connections you needed to take control of this game: Al, Raven, Lily, and Mirdo (at a point). Your social game was by far the best it's ever been, because you usually have a way of pushing people away from you, but that wasn't the case this season. You went to work, learned from your past mistakes, went to make those connections and flipped your game. Had you not taken the time and care to do it, it would have been infinitely easier to evict you, and I would not have had to stress about the way in which I handled your eviction.
    - Strategically you've made moves that made sense for your game. You took out Hermes and Jade, your biggest and most immediate comp opposition, which allowed you to secure your status as the comp winner for the foreseeable future. Had you survived week 4, this would have allowed you to crank out more wins in the future, and probably made you unstoppable (and I would be asking you for flattery). In addition, forcing yourself onto the block on week 2 was a much better move than I thought it was at the time. It blocked a backdoor, proved your influence over the chips, tested faith in your allies, and granted you 100% passage into the week's veto.

    And that's probably why I think your game this season was the best game yet from you, even if it was short compared to your infamous BB3 gameplay. There was no bigger opposition, and no bigger wall for me to climb than you this season, and all things considered you should be very proud of yourself. <3
    VioletValkyrie likes this.

  2. NinjaPenguin Always standing out from the crowd.


  3. Alfze Aspiring Trainer


    Hey! Before my question, Id just like to congratulate you both for making it here, you’ve both fought hard for it. Great job you two! <3

    Now for my question: If you were given the chance to go back to week 1 would you do it? And what would you change?

    I look forward to seeing your answers! And good luck!
  4. EurekaTingz Aspiring Trainer


    Hi! Sorry for the late response, but I was waiting to answer jury questions in one whole post but I'll just do it now! Just a fair heads up, I'm not as knowledgeable as Lorde is when it comes to this forum and all of the tricks, etc. so it might look a little messy and I apologize for that! I'll begin with Lily's question.

    It's no secret that Lorde had a much more bold game this season, since she was a huge threat from day one. I didn't play a similar game to last season at ALL, and I'd like to consider myself a versatile player when it comes to different playstyles. This season I wasn't as "out there" with my moves. I knew Lorde was a good shield to hide behind, and you can't really blame me for using her to stay safe week by week. But even so, I do want to thank her on here for keeping me safe when I almost went home.

    Now, on to the actual question: I was targeted this season, which is no surprise since I worked alongside Lorde, but I used her protection very well in some cases. But when she won the HOH and used the chip idea to nominate houseguests, we used the chips to our advantage to take out our target at the time, but I also noticed I literally had zero chips used on me to be put on the block which says a lot by how I worked well with the other members of the house. In the later stages of the game, I really kicked up my social game and that played off when I worked with Mirdo. Mirdo and I had an on and off friendship throughout the season but I'm glad we ended it off on a high note. During the time of the Azalea alliance, it's an understatement to say that I was scared of them turning on me. I was terrified. However, I didn't let my fear control my actions, and I kept a clear head to advance towards the end goal.

    Now on to Mirdo's question...

    That's actually a great question! I won't use Lorde or I in this because I do want to include other people who I think had a great game.

    Violet - Violet had a remarkable social game, because she managed to create a whole alliance that had a fearful reputation to the players that knew about it. I was in it and even I was fearful of it. That's Violet's strong suit, to build up a reputation that keeps her safe, and she did it flawlessly until her downfall. She had loyal people by her side which were Lily and Raven, and maybe even more. She was a master manipulator which is a great skill to have in the game. If we didn't take Vi out that week, I wouldn't be shocked if she were to be sitting in the final 2 right now.

    Raven - I just want to make it clear now, we had no intention of ruining a friendship with him and Mirdo, we just wanted to combat his lies, but unfortunately, that ended badly. I won't speak on behalf of him and Mirdo, since it's obviously not my place. But anyways, Raven played a great game alongside Violet despite what happened. They ran this game and worked well together. When Violet got evicted, Raven quickly took charge and pocketed Lily, Mirdo/Al. That made four people. That was four people against Lorde, myself, and Brave. It was hard for us to take them down and when the unfortunate events happened that had to do with Raven's lies, he managed to flip Mirdo against us which was an impressive thing to do, despite all of the evidence we had against him. He was another master manipulator and he was a great player overall with a great social game.

    I'll move on to Violet's question...

    As I said, I was trying to cram a ton of questions into one post so I was sort of waiting but sorry for the late reply! And I obviously understand and respect you voting for Lorde so there's no issue here either! I'll talk about some of the worthy plays I have made, but before that, I'll give you an explanation.

    I considered my gameplay this season to be more "behind the scenes" than anything. I knew Lorde was a huge threat, and target in this game, so why would I screw over my own game with flashy moves when I can just do that while doing it behind the scenes and get little to no blood on my hands? The week of Ephe's eviction, he actually came to me and told me that he was targeting Jade and Lorde. I saw this as a window of opportunity so I made sure to notify both of them about it when I made a chat to tell them. I wanted Ephe out since I saw he was in the cast, not because I disliked him (because I don't dislike him) but because I knew he had the potential to go far again, and I wanted to cut him loose before that could happen. So when I made the chat and told Jade and Lorde, I instantly knew they would both push to eliminate Ephe, and it paid off when Lorde won HOH that week. I was sitting back and watching what was happening, knowing that if I never told Lorde about Ephe's plans, he would still be in the house.

    That same week, we managed to evict Ephe and I was proud of both myself and Lorde for pulling that off. Another move I made was similar to what I just explained, except it took a longer time. This was when I started to target Vi very early. Lorde can vouch for me when I say that I kept pestering her about how strong Vi was going to become and how much of a threat she was. I started to target Vi very early in the game, around the same time I targeted Ephe I believe. Vi, I do see you as a friend, but as a game player, I knew you could easily take me out when you wanted to. To prevent that from happening, and based off of prior success of taking out Ephe, I knew telling Lorde would mean she would target Vi, too. After I managed to convince Lorde to go after Violet, it was a hard battle to win but we eventually won it. I do like to think that I got in to Lorde's ear a bit when I told her to target Vi, but again, I'm not Lorde so I can't really speak for her.

    As a side note, I do believe that I played a great social game because during that one week when Mirdo nominated me, the entire Azalea alliance fought to bring me off of the block, and I still appreciate you Vi for doing that!

    I hope my answers didn't offend anyone, and I look forward to the finale!
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  5. EurekaTingz Aspiring Trainer


    Hi Al! Thank you, and good job on making it to the final three! So I find your question to be very interesting (in a good way of course). I'm kind of 50/50 on this question for many reasons that I'll get into. But I'll try to make this look as organized as possible!

    Yes, I would go back - I would go back because I will admit, I didn't play an amazing game this season and that's pretty obvious. I do want to go back to repair relationships, fix my mistakes, and just overall play this season better. Plus, this was an unforgettable experience that I want to replay so I can make even more memories. If you were to ask me this question mid-game, I would probably tell you that you're crazy for ever wanting to go back, but now, going back doesn't seem so bad. The thrill and excitement from this season was pretty fun and I want to desperately go back to make amends!

    No, I don't want to go back - I wouldn't go back to week 1 mainly because I worked hard to get here, y'know? We both did, and we both came in to this game promising each other a final 2, which is what we got in the end! I finally reached my end goal, and throwing all of that work away and restarting from scratch would definitely be tiring. I worked hard to get my targets out, and to maintain a social game that wasn't as awful as last season. I honestly can't believe I'm sitting in the final 2 for two seasons in a row and I don't want to give it up. But at the end of the day, this is a game, and I did achieve what I wanted to achieve, even with all of my mistakes.
  6. EurekaTingz Aspiring Trainer


    (Forgot to mention, but thanks for all of the kind words! <3)
  7. Lord o da rings ♕ The Queen ♕
    Lord o da rings


    Hey Al, interesting question! Being honest, I think had I had more time to play (since week 1 was before quarantine, after all) I could have set myself up better immediately. But I don't fully blame myself for this, I had immunity on week 1. I was busy with school and I knew I was safe, and because of that it's the one week where I didn't pour my effort into this game. Would I go back to week 1 to change my game that week (assuming I have the time this time)? Yes.

    It wasn't until the following week with the chips that I managed to collect information and start to steer the direction of the game. But overall, I don't think I would go back to change anything. I was safe for the week, and won power the next week and then got myself in a position that I wanted. From there, I think I played my best game, making the optimal decision every time I had to make choices, and being able to socially, strategically, and competitively maneuver my way all the way here. Would I go back to week 1 to change my game as a whole? No.
  8. Lord o da rings ♕ The Queen ♕
    Lord o da rings


    I'd like to take the time to rebuttal some of the above points. Flour, I don't think it's accurate to say that by gaining no chips you were an especially social player, or good with the house. Only 4/10 eligible people received chips: Violet, Mirdo, Ephe, and Jade. 3 of them were targets of players during the week, and 1 was a pawn Violet made sure would be up on the block with her. It doesn't make sense to say all 6 of those players were playing great social games when that simply cannot be the case.
    I also want to note that Flour was the most quiet person in this alliance chat. It fell on me to keep both of our relationships up with Violet, Raven, and Lily, and it fell on me to maintain our credibility with them.
    I feel like you're trying to write this off as an example of coercion when that's just not the case: it's loyalty. You were already working with me, and you wanted to work with Jade as well. You told the people you wanted to work with about the situation, in their interests. Is it fair to say you had a role in this by telling me about it? Yes. Is it fair to say this was an act of manipulation of me or Jade? No.
    This feels like the same thing above. This isn't coercion, this is just common sense. Everyone, aligned with or against Violet, knew she was a big-time player who came to crush the competition, and anyone who didn't see Violet as an ally (I always knew she would come after me sooner or later) would not need to be convinced she's a threat to their game and needs to leave in time.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  9. EurekaTingz Aspiring Trainer


    Oh wow, didn't expect a rebuttal. I guess I'll reinforce my arguments and make some points clear since I didn't make some things as clear as I wanted them to be.

    First off, I never said I was the most social person in that alliance chat. I admitted to being terrified of being in it and I also admitted to not having the best social game, but as I said, I didn't let my fear stress me out. I worked well with them during the time I spoke to them in that alliance chat. Not everything fell on you when you had to protect both you and I, because we both knew we weren't being targeted UNTIL the week we evicted Vi.

    Was I loyal to you? Yes, you know that already. But I didn't tell you about what Ephe said to me right away, y'know. I believe I took about a day to tell you because I was considering not telling you at all, because I didn't want to risk my own game if things went south. I didn't tell you because I was loyal, it was a part of it, but as I mentioned, I wanted Ephe out. And that was why I told you, because I was threatened by him, despite his lack of a social game in the early stages. I didn't need him to become stronger overtime.

    I knew that you were smart enough to know Vi was coming after you, but you didn't believe that she was doing it so soon. That's why I gave you the extra push to take her out, so I didn't have to stir up things, because we both know that I don't like doing that UNLESS I absolutely have to. Anyway, that's just how I see things.
  10. EurekaTingz Aspiring Trainer


    Also, this isn't me trying to claim that I'm some master manipulator, I'm just trying to state how I was able to get my targets out without becoming one myself.
  11. NinjaPenguin Always standing out from the crowd.


    The Finale: Conclusion
    I will now announce the winner of the game. It's been an up-and-down season, but I'd like to thank those who have given it their all. This season has certainly been one of Friends and Enemies, in ways I never expected. From an insane beginning of the game to an unstoppable march to the finish, this has definitely been a crazy season to watch. Without further ado, let's hear a bit about the finalists.
    Lorde, the Frontstab Flatterer: Faced with one of the largest targets going into the season, Lorde completely reinvented her game, playing with a sense of teamwork and using praise rather than fear to get her way, accumulating information through alliances and using it to get others into doing her bidding while maintaining the appearance of a friend to all who simply encouraged others to do their best move. Despite this being her third time playing, Lorde was the last player to be nominated, and has still never received a single vote while always voting in the majority herself. She played a dominating game and went to the Final 2 with her closest ally, but will her reputation come back to haunt her?
    Flour, the Loyal Compatriot: Flour made it to his second consecutive finale, working for the entirety of the game alongside Lorde. While Lorde made moves outside of their alliances, Flour was there behind the scenes, suggesting nominations, targets, and debating the decisions the duo made with their competition wins. Though he had an important role behind the scenes and remained entirely honest and loyal throughout the game, will his private role in making decisions and a perceived lack of independence from Lorde's decisions make this his second consecutive defeat in the finale?

    Your journeys in the game have all come down to this. Let's count the votes:
    @VioletValkyrie voted for Lorde
    @Fiery_Lugia voted for Lorde
    @Brave Vesperia voted for Lorde
    @mirdo voted for Lorde
    @Alfze voted for Lorde

    By a vote of 5-0, the winner of Big Brother 8: Friends and Enemies is...

    Congratulations to Lorde for playing an amazing game, becoming the first player in Pokébeach Big Brother history to win a unanimous jury vote!

    I'll post a conclusion post tomorrow, but for now, thank you all for playing this game and I hope you've enjoyed it!
    Alfze and Lord o da rings like this.
  12. NinjaPenguin Always standing out from the crowd.


    Concluding Thoughts
    Hey everyone! This is me just sharing my thoughts on the hosting side of things. This game was insane, filled with things both great and bad, and there's a lot that I want to get to, so without further ado, let's talk about it:

    General Player/Gameplay Thoughts
    The first thing I want to say is that I want to thank everyone for not causing any trouble on the deadline side of things. There wasn't a single warning given over the course of the game and that's absolutely incredible. You guys were always letting me know if you needed to reschedule, add extra time, etc. and it was really great that I didn't need to punish anyone for deadline problems. I think my warning system for this season was a good idea, but it's not like it actually ended up being tested. With this level of activity, I also really didn't need to keep the deadline for voting open all 24 hours, but I still think that ending the week only with approval of the nominees in addition to the voters is important, since otherwise a nominee can be deprived of the opportunity to scramble for votes by their time zones.
    The gameplay this season was mixed. From Weeks 2-4, the game was great, with major blindsides and interesting, intense gameplay to take down huge targets. But with those targets taken down, something else began to happen. Despite everyone having played before, I saw a lot of people not using any autonomy and just ending up a sheep for large segments of the game. I want to encourage everyone to be an active player who takes the game into their own hands and makes moves. That doesn't mean you need to always get your way, but I think it's much more fun when everyone is giving it their best to make it to the end and win the jury votes. If you want to win, you need to make moves that help you, not just hand a win to your allies. At the very least, seek out connections with more than just a couple players and be an equal voice when it comes to making decisions. Don't let anyone get away with being your one ally and dictating your fate. That being said, I don't want to take anything away from Lorde on her very well deserved win; she put herself into the position to win exactly by taking advantage of passive play, working more of the house than anyone else and making moves that personally benefited her, and her gameplay was absolutely amazing.
    My last note for future hosts is that I tried to be as unobtrusive as possible and I think that was a good thing. I refrained from speaking in any chats unless people mentioned anything or did anything that would break the rules of the game, while still being sure to read everything, and I think that enabled me to effectively moderate discussion but to not influence the game in any ways, keeping everything as fair as possible.
    Now, it's time for the part of gameplay thoughts everyone was actually waiting for: my opinions on Raven quitting and Mae cheating. The Raven quit I think was just the result of a misunderstanding between him and mirdo, which led Raven to be quite rude in an argument to him and mirdo to be rightfully offended. I was upset most by its timing, which came right before his eviction, leaving us with a jury of only five players. I wish he just stuck it out and returned to be on the jury.
    Mae's cheating was incredibly upsetting for me. It's not just awful to see someone ignore all the hard work I put into this game by subverting my hosting, it absolutely ruined the momentum and wrecked a lot of people's plans in the process. Here, for reference, are the promised screenshots on how this affected her strategic decisions (note that these screenshots were taken the day before she was taken out of the game):
    Here is Mae's diary room. The first part is before we've talked in audience chat about nominations, but we have talked about playing the middle:
    The second part comes after this:
    In the end, of course, she nominated Brave and Lily just as the audience suggested.

    Here's Mae's veto thoughts:
    This comes after these two discussions:
    She eventually decided to take out Brave (her closest ally in the game!) with the private Raven replacement nom exactly as we suggested. This ended up exactly as we suggested, though we removed her before letting her Blockade decision go through.

    Then, you see this last quote where she was concerned Lorde would sneak past her? After she posted that, I said this over 20 minutes or so:
    And shockingly in her alliance chat, she claims time pressure too:

    Obviously the faked score and her confession is definitive enough proof, but this should serve as further documentation.
    Please, future players, never cheat in any game, let alone one with absolutely no stakes that everyone is just doing for fun. I spent ten hours over the span of two days in the process of catching her, drafting my post, speaking to moderators, etc. and the fact that I had to do that much work to ensure game integrity is ridiculous. This is the second incident of cheating in this series and I sincerely hope it is the last.

    Competitions were probably the area I'm the proudest of in this game. I think that I found a lot of really cool and new flash games that required a nice variety of skills and most importantly were fun. I know a lot of people told me they really enjoyed them (besides Hasee Bounce, which I included more for my personal nostalgia than anything) and that was great to hear. I tried to bring back some of the more iconic and enjoyable returning flash games, but my conclusion was that those aren't really needed. Ensuring that no players had a returning flash game that was inherently advantageous to them was good, but in general, I think even the best of comps shouldn't be used every season. Just pick the games that you find fun and haven't been overused or have some good reason to come back and make sure nobody is inherently at an advantage for them being the chosen comp. I also think the shift towards more live "forum game" competitions was a really good one. It prevented the game from stalling for too long and utilized a totally different set of skills than brute forcing a flash game. Though reading comprehension should probably be a one time comp, and these should generally all be live as to not require imposing communication restrictions, I think Parroting/Fibbage/Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better/Logic Puzzle/Web of Lies were all fun ideas that could certainly return in future games. Maybe even as part of a live eviction? ;)

    Twists and Mechanics
    There were a few twists this game, and I think they were overall pretty decent, but would need some fine-tuning before being used again.
    The Spotlight was originally intended as a more powerful twist (with incentives for getting your spotlight partner evicted), but had to have its power vastly reduced due to the game having only 12 players instead of the intended 14 and having some of the pairings end up a bit questionable due to the exact people who signed up for the game. Because of this reduction of power, it really wasn't that interesting. Most people ended up just seeing it as a reason to postpone working with their duo partner for a couple of weeks rather than forming new alliances and playing different games than their duo partner. I think the idea of preventing obvious premade alliances was good for an All-Star season, but it needed to be more powerful to be effective.
    Saving the top 6 players at the first HOH competition I thought was a good idea to avoid an attempted purge of competition-based players Week 1, giving them time to settle into the game and build connections. I think this was a good idea, as a lot of people's instinct in an All-Star season is to target these competition threats, and this twist could definitely be used again, but the fact that the most infamous comp threat of all, Hermes, ended up losing out on immunity meant that he was a super easy target and got evicted that week (that being said, his eviction proves I had a good reason for this twist I suppose).
    Temptation Week was certainly interesting and I think similar concepts could be used again. The choice between playing in competitions that week and playing for a long-term advantage I thought was an interesting one, and ended up providing a cool temptation for those who felt they were safe. The Backdoor Blockade itself, however, was perhaps a bit weak and could have lasted a couple more weeks or something to make it have a larger impact on the game (it also could have been more interesting if it could be used on another player, like the immunity idol in Survivor, but then it might have perhaps been a bit too powerful). The second, secret temptation that Violet was given to win the Power of Veto or take the Bag of Bounty (see below) was another twist that I thought was cool. The fact that scores/competitors weren't shown for the POV due to Temptation Week provided nice cover for the twist, and I think its power level was pretty good. It might have been a bit more fun if Vi kept it totally secret, allowing her to totally blindside people by pulling out an advantage and surprising them, but as for the twist itself, I think it worked well enough as-is.
    You may use one of these powers of the course of the game.
    BB1: Vote Reveal-At any time, you may use this power in thread to reveal all of the votes a particular houseguest has cast this season.
    BB2: Immunity Advanatage-Before the Power of Veto competition has been revealed, you may DM me to use this power to automatically place yourself in the Power of Veto competition. You will also receive a 25% boost to your score. This power may be used until the end of Week 6.
    BB3: Pot of Greed-If you use this power, you will receive an extra vote to use in that week's eviction, but will lose your vote during the next week. This power may be used on Week 3 or Week 5.
    BB4: Gungner, the Lightning Spear-During the first 24 hours of any Power of Veto competition, you may use this in-thread on a houseguest (besides the nominees) playing in the Power of Veto competition. That houseguest will be unable to participate in that competition. This power may be used on Week 7 or Week 8.
    BB5: Legacy Advantage-If you use this power during an ongoing Head of Household competition, you will be given immunity for the entire week. This power may be used on Week 4 or Week 6.
    BB6: Immunity Idol-Before the next (Week 4) Head of Household competition is revealed, you may use this power to grant someone other than yourself vote nullification. If that player is evicted next week by votes (i.e. not the Backdoor Blockade), they will be safe and the other one on the block will go home.
    BB7: King's Crown-You may give the King's Crown to any player. If they are evicted, the Head of Household will gain the King's Crown. This season, the holder of the King's Crown will have the power to break any ties in competitions. The King's Crown may be given to anyone at the beginning of any week during the remainder of the game.
    The final mechanic I want to talk about is throwing competitions. I think this was a really good thing for future hosts to use (though the Full Throwing Available part could use a bit more explanation/clarification), but went pretty much unused by the Houseguests during this season (it was only used by Lorde and Jade on the Week 2 Veto comp, though it was considered a couple other times). Still, I think it's a basic quality of life improvement that it can't hurt for future hosts to use.

    Closing Thoughts
    Thanks to everyone for reading this! I'm glad I finally got to host a season, and I'd like to thank everyone who played and stuck with it the whole time. I know some people got a bit heated in the game, but it's nice to see everyone so friendly after the game and it's always great having all of you around. This was definitely a hard and stressful game to host at times, but I'm really glad that I was able to be your host, no matter how hard it was to make it online in time for deadlines, and I'm really proud to have gotten such positive feedback from everyone! Everyone has been super supportive and great to be around and that's the most important part. The PBBB community is great and I'm glad to be a part of it (and hopefully, I'll be returning as a player sooner rather than later).

    I also want to give a special thanks to all of the audience members, especially @Celever and @Blakers, for always being there to give me advice and look over stuff, along with helping me handle a lot of the stressful situations that go along with hosting. You guys are a large part of what makes this game so fun and I was glad to have you around and have all of you be so committed and interested in the events of the season.

    Now then, I'm super excited for BB9 and what @Lord o da rings has in store! Best of luck to all of the players!
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