(1) Nintendo Follow-Up [9/21]

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Everybody here who thinks that Nintendo is wrong is not seeing the situation from their point of view. You are all seeing it as fans. Nintendo sees the information as their intellectual property, and they need to protect it.

For all of those that think taking this to court is a good idea, you are sadly mistaken. Nintendo would sweep the floor.

Also, stop comparing this to the DP and HGSS releases. The BW info was waaaaaay greater than any info consolidated during the DP or HGSS coverage. We have huge pages of leaked information on BW, and pictures on every sentence. Everything on the front page right now (just without pictures). Do you see how much information was revealed? A LOT.

Besides do you people really need to see some pictures badly enough? Just wait some time.
 
I'm a pokemon fan, but seeing the pokemons of B&W getting weirder and weirder... hmmm.. its the best time to think carefully about having the game.. i hate those person-looking pokemons of B&W...
 
@winchesterAX

I LIKE most of the 5th gen pokes. Better than Gen 3 and 4 in my opinion. And is that like a digimon thing as your avatar....so yeah. lol
 
oh my avatar? its Zero of SD Gundam.. well, I think its better if the makers of pokemon makes a "Design Your Pokemon Contest" for pokemon fans out there and submit their designs online. And those designs that will be chosen will be the new generation pokemons.. I think its better that way.. Maybe we can also make cool pokemons rather than those BW pokemons.. ^_^
 
I had a feeling the images didn't come from ROM's. I don't know why Nintendo had a knee-jerk reaction and immediately decided that all the images came from ROM's and they had to be removed immediately.
 
This whole situation is a terrible slap in the face to WPM, and it seems they just blindly picked him out based on traffic. Which is absurd!

Look at Pokebeach.com and tell me how long it takes you to find the only ad that they use on the site. It took me a while to find. Not to mention, there isn't even a single ad on the forums! I also know that hosting a huge site like this means your need huge server space, which means costly hosting. Pokebeach is probably supported out of a few people's pockets. And on top of that, they don't even ask for donations, which I'm sure would lead to a ton of support if they ever did.

Basically, I'm not even sure why Nintendo can remove these images in the first place. If you look at the nature of the site and have knowledge about ad revenue vs. the cost of hosting, it's a non-profit website. So fear of Pokebeach benefiting from posting these images is out of the question. I don't get how you can legally remove images from a game that has already been released. I've never heard of anything like this before. Is this lawsuit by Nintendo International or just Nintendo of America? If someone in Japan posts images from their game will anybody retaliate in the same? Anything posted from your own game seems pretty well constituted under "fair use" to me, but the lawyer is being specifically difficult with you. WPM asked a yes or no question, all he needed was a yes or no.

So what, is Ninendo afraid that some people might not like the sprites if we see them? (because from a majority opinion, we don't). The lawyer claims that Pokebeach needs to remain from posting its intellectual property. Every Pokemon in the game is intellectual property. Every single Pokemon Card is copyrighted (as seen in the recent Beckett lawsuit). Will we not be able to get card scans anymore?

In short, Pokemon has been taking a lot more legal action. There's the Beckett lawsuit, them contacting me and preventing me from selling my mats before any were sold, and now the sweeping of B/W images from the big fansites. Some big executive for Nintendo/Pokemon is not happy, and I hope that said executive learns he's just hurting fan morale.

Also, say I want to put the sprites in a video with my commentary on whether or not I like them. Is that "fair use" if there's no ads on the video? I just don't get it.
 
I seriously have to state that in all truths Nintendo is hurting themselves by not allowing the promotion or spoilers of the games to come out. Like stated on the main page "people are going to get spoiled regardless." There is nothing Nintendo can do about this except for by filing a lawsuit against everyone that reads/posts/buys japans products outside of Japan. I mean how is getting spoiled a crime this day and age?

Nintendo has fallen off their rocker and to be honest the people there obviously don't care if it gets sales or not. I for one am glad there are spoilers and such like this, it tells me weither the game is worth buying or not. I think that the guy who is running this site has done a tremendous job in showing off Black and White, promoting it and even sticking up for it on occassions. I thank him for that too.
 
Nintendo simply jumped to conclusions far too quickly. And possibly they maybe had a bone to pick with WPM since he was one of the people on the top of the "letter's" hit list.
 
Please understand.

Four years ago, 107 new Pokémon were revealed. Every fan of Pokémon knew all of them in a matter of minutes. Knew their types, moves, abilities and mainly: sprites. But as much as we searched, we could only find 104 Pokémon in the official websites. Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus were created by Game Freak, included in the game code but kept as "promotional legendaries" for the upcoming 4th Generation movies. In their first thoughts, it would be a big surprise for everyone, they didn't expect that people would find their hidden codes, and if they did, pretended not to know. So, that the Pokédex in Pokemon.com ended in 490, Manaphy. Only later it became 491, one year later 492 and now 493.

I believe that this is all about this, they want to keep Kerudio, Meloetta and the awesome Genosect as a mystery. What happened is that you spoiled the surprise! And thank goodness for that, if it weren't for your hard work, would be hard to wait a month for the Black and White site to show us a half-dozen new monsters or something.

But Nintendo didn't get it that way. For them, the excitement of fans would be lower (and subsequently the profit with new games and ticket sells) if the final legendaries were shown by mere fansites before them. Actually, they are afraid of your potential, they know that your website has strength to change the way that a new Gen are seen by buyers. That's why only a few sites like yours and Merrick's received these messages, you should be proud, actually. And this is all it's about. Here's what you got to do:

In a month or earlier the Pokémon Zukan in the official Japanese website will be showing the official Sugimori artworks, as well as the game sprites, of 152 or 153 Pokémon. As soon as they do, you can post them all, and use their images etc., and I don't believe that this "Mr. Lawyer" will be upset, you just need to post a link to the sources (whose are public), and it'll be alright.

You're a good guy and you truly love Pokémon. You go to Japan and hide in theaters to get a Vicitini pic, you even yell at thiefs trying to take your notebook, thinking of how you can post Pokémon news without it. I'm sure Nintendo approves your enthusiasm with the 5th Generation, but they had to take this attitude or what happened to Arceus would happen again. So, pretend you don't have pictures of these last three Pokémon, wait until they are officially revealed and show us them all!

Thank you if you read,
my best wishes. (Got it? Great joke, I know. =D)

Duke R
[email protected]
[email protected]
 
It's a messy subject, but in the end I feel like it's being blown out of proportion on both sides.

Nintendo is out of left field when it comes to worrying about leaked images hurting sales seeing as images can only boost hype. If anything it gave people who initially hated ALL of the new pokémon time to cool down and start noticing some they actually do like despite thier first impression. It's pretty obvious to see the problems with Nintendo's side so I'm not going to go to far into it. Also, I agree with the user who stated that the lawyer not knowing what a sprite is so that yeilded the legal jargon answer. It's more than likely true. There are probably just as many gamers who don't know legal jargon as there are lawyers who don't know gamer jargon.

However it's also crazy how upset people are about the pics having to be pulled since 1) there are official sites that are allowed to have pics ie: pokemon.jp or posted scans from Corocoro and 2) we still have translations, walkthrus, and summaries which are in most cases more of a leak than just pictures of Pokémon. I can ALREADY go to Serebii and check thier BW pokédex and go ahead and start forming movesets and strategies for new pokémon as well as go to the front page and get what almost amounts to a step by step walkthru of the game.

In comparison is the removal of a couple screenshots that big of a deal? I think we have enough to work with. It comes down to two things: Do you want the game or Do you not want the game. That's it. People who want it will buy it, those who don't want it won't. Other gaming companies have done stupid things and yet thier game still sells and after the game is released the anger subsides. Think of how many times Starcraft 2 got pushed back. In my opinion games getting pushed back is worse than a company developing a bit of an ego and removing leaked screenshots. I'm sure if the US release of BW was pushed back to next Christmas (2011) it would be WAY more of a fiasco, and righty so.
 
I literally just made an account here so I could praise Water Pokemon Master. I've always been a Bulbapedian (no offense, just found them first back in the day) and when I saw, in Bulbanews the information of what was happening between you and Serebii I wanted to further check it out and I just have to say that the way you've been handling this may just have converted me to becoming a Poke'beachian. You are handling this with the perfect combination of professionalism and sarcasm and I commend you for that.

I don't even see how they can consider it illegal because, I mean, they released all the information to the public the moment they started handing out Japanese copies. How can they still claim that the information is confidential after literally handing the information out themselves? ( forgive me if my points are sophomoric due to lack of information or anything.) I mean, like some of you stated up there, if fans don't want the information spoiled, just don't read the spoilers. I'm the kind of guy who wants to see the Pokemon and the characters but not know of the storyline, and fansites, including you, are really good at warning people that if they keep reading then they are going to enter storyline spoilers and I've had no problem. Nintendo is being recockulous in my opinion.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say I'm a fan of you, Water Pokemon Master. I've been bragging on my Facebook and everything. Keep up the good work. I'm probably going to be visiting this site a lot more often from this day on.
 
I've read through most of this thread, and wanted to add my input. I've actually been hovering for a few days now... Just didn't want to say anything.

As my opinion of this whole ordeal: I think it's absolutely absurd. I know why Nintendo is doing this, but it's really not helping their image at all in the eyes of Pokemon fans. Their 2nd best selling franchise.

As for the legal matter: I'm not a lawyer myself, Nor do I understand the law completely. I study rocks, not the law. This is all from what I've read on my own and from what has been said from people who have actually posted intelligently and haven't started calling names and pointing fingers.

From what I can tell, Nintendo as a company does have a leg to stand on, sort of. NoA however, does and does not at the same time. Nintendo could say that this material is copyright and has been overused under the Fair Use. There, you lose. However, since the game has been released, it has become public knowledge. If this coverge would have started 2 weeks ago, or a month ago, then I could understand where they are coming from no matter how much I wanted the info.

As for NoA, unless the English version of the game itself is being spewed I don't understand how they can have the right to do this. NoJ I can see, as it is a Japanese game and under their copyright laws in Japan to do so. Yet, since the games aren't released in America, it's technically not NoA's information. Like I said, if the English version of the game was being spewed I could understand NoA stepping in and saying "Whoa whoa buddy, you can't do that yet." In the end, I really don't know HOW to feel about this situation. I am upset at Nintendo's actions, yet I understand where they are coming from at the same time.

As for international release: I think it would HELP their sales instead of harm them. I know they do these calculations and theories of when they can release it to get the most money... but in my opinion, if they released them at the same time, then NoA wouldn't lose money to people just buying the Jap versions and not purchasing it when it comes out in english. "I already have it, why do I have to buy it again?" Or by them getting ahold of the ROM, playing it, and saying "Well I already have it, why do I have to buy it!"

Feel free to think of me as you like, but that's my opinions. Good day, ^^
 
What I simply cannot comprehend is why Nintendo would want to take legal action which would effectively damage themselves - it is extremely illogical. And if other sites already have these sprites, why can't we? I personally believe that the company is biased, as there is no reasonable excuse as to why other sites can get away with it whereas Pokebeach can't. Let's go back to the "speeding" analogy I made in the previous thread. If your best friend was going 2 mph over the speed limit, WHY WOULD YOU REPORT THEM!? I mean, seriously, what are you going to achieve from it other than making your friend pay a hefty fine!? I'll tell you what else it achieves - NOTHING. I honestly don't know why Nintendo wants to get WPM into trouble. If Nintendo do indeed decide to file a lawsuit against WPM (which in itself is stupid), not only would WPM win the court case, but Nintendo would have soiled themselves. And even if the case went in Nintendo's favour (in which case the court would have to be biased), then WPM would most likely have to pay a nasty sum of cash, but still, in the long-term they won't be doing themselves any favours. We're only here because we're promoting Pokemon, which means we're advertising it for free. Without fan sites like us, where would Nintendo be now? That's right, nowhere.
 
Look, being a Marketing grad and whatnot, I would look at it like this: the coverage is an excellent way of getting people interested in the games. I mean, how else will Nintendo get consumers interested in the games, other than their horrible "Nintentard-Brand Coverage" seen in their magazines and their incomplete website? If anything, they're driving people away while sites like this are pulling people in. I agree fully with the comments made in the news post, that this is all ridiculous. If they don't want the games "spoiled", then set a worldwide release. From what my peers and I have seen, we all think that Nintendo is going downhill with this, and it doesn't look like they're going to recover anytime soon.

Nintendo has no idea what they're doing, and they need to just sit quietly and let the coverage (and, Arceus forbid, the IMAGES) continue. Because everyone knows that they aren't doing anything to help themselves.

Keep up the great work, WPM. We can always count on you! (And awesome comments to the LAWLYERS. XD )
 
No matter how many people argue about how illogical it is, its not going to change anything.

Also people here are really starting to get desperate at finding as much fault with Nintendo as possible. I must have seen like half a dozen comments about how the fans do free promotions and advertising, etc. Well if it's free that also means the fans are free to not do anything, i.e. you can't claim it's an assured benefit for Nintendo. In fact how good is this so called fan advertising when the fans do stuff like whine about how ugly the gear or ice cream pokemon are... yeah that's real good promotion there...Most fans I know of don't really help promote stuff intentionally, they only choose to promote stuff they LIKE, extremely biased towards that too. If they hate gear, then gear can go to hell for all they care.
 
With regard to your below questions, be advised that Nintendo respects the right of others to make fair use of publicly-available copyrighted materials as permitted by law. However, the use of Nintendo's unpublished copyrighted materials or other proprietary information that Nintendo has not authorized for public release is not permitted, which necessitated the actions over the weekend to protect the company’s intellectual property rights. I trust this sufficiently addresses your concerns.
Click to expand...
Okay players.... let's break it down.....

publicly-available copyrighted materials as permitted by law.
Click to expand...
It isn't technically "Publicly-available" since the Japanese release is considered a "Market Testing" and the games are always altered for western release. The materials are copyrighted but not made readily available to the public during the Market Testing Phase so as to gain reception data. Thus anything viewed by western audiences may be changed for their release of the game since it's not technically "final". This would categorize the information under the following....
unpublished copyrighted materials or other proprietary information that Nintendo has not authorized for public release
Click to expand...
And is seen as possibly causing Nintendo damage by conditioning the Western (or other audiences) to expect something that they very possibly might not get.

Why they only targeted the images and continue to allow all other information is beyond me and I still see the act as petty since PokeBeach and Serebii are technically reporting on the games as News and Guides for the Japanese release suggesting that all information where other audiences are concerned may be tentative and could very likely change.[/run-on sentence]

Also considering that Bulbapedia still has yet to reveive any such communication from Nintendo and continues to maintain their development of a B/W PokeDex w/ all concerned information and images.
 
People tend to believe public = can be found on internet, legally or otherwise. I guess I agree with this notion. There's localised public (liek the public in say, Connecticut), and there's internet public. We're on the internet.

Unpublished is irrefutable if you consider BW from the perspective of the english release. The anti-Nintendo crowd can't use that against Nintendo so they pick the other perspective that suits them: the perspective of the japanese release.

I think right now the situation has pretty much gone down to petty company vs petty people in the fanbase.
 
This actually has to do with publication, they probably don't care if it's a rom or not, they hold all the right's to the publication of the new pokemon, weather you bought the game or not you violated a term of the copyright infringement, the one' in which that a nation has the right to how much of there product is viewed in other nation's, if it is viewed, shown or sold. It's not like it matter's anyways the game's are coming out in a couple of month's big deal, it's not like everyone's not going to buy the game's just because we know what they look like. cya
 
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