(1) Black Kyurem and White Kyurem's Typings! [3/29]

Mitja

veteran smartass
Member
don()shinobi said:
Charizard is a giant fire-breathing flying monster. I think that qualifies as a dragon.

I see the argument with Gyarados (still hoping theyd have a generation of improving first gens at least about stats and types). They simply messed up there, its not even the only case with not well thought through types like newer standards.

but
giant fire breathing flying monster, is not the definition of dragon types. Whatever it is, its not that.
Giant - size has nothing to do with being a dragon
Fire-Breathing - closer, since its one of the main features of dragons in real mythology, but this is pokemon, breathing fire is not unusual, any kind of creature could do that here. If a pokemon breathes fire that only points to it being Fire type before anything else.
Flying - ummm, self-explanatory.

Charizard is a firebreathing (as in Fire type), lizard with wings I thought. It starts resembeling a dragon with the horns as it evolves but seems like the wings steal the show, hence Flying :p


Now from how I understand this whole thing,
Being a dragon is usually the main part of the core concept of a pokemon, for it to get primary Dragon typing.
As secondary its less obvious..but in most cases it seems like if the real-life creature involves wordplay or mythological references to dragons are enough :S, given there is no other prominent feature to warrant a different type.

But note how Dialga/Palkia/Giratina were NEVER referred to as "dragons" in the story or anywhere.
They are secondary dragons.

Reshiram/Zekrom(and Kyurem obviously) however are all not just primary dragon types, but considered as "the legendary dragons of Unova".

b7yv81.jpg




Kyurem is not a fusion
It is still Kyurem (look at its leg desing, face and all), just now its not kissing the ground anymore and has parts resembeling the other dragons added.
The generators on its tail look like imitations, or even improved versions of the other 2 tails.
Really curious where Kyurem got those from. Are they an artificial upgrade, or hidden somewhere, or just come out of nowhere with something else being the trigger?
 

Renoir

Großer Krieger.
Member
Mitja said:
Really curious where Kyurem got those from. Are they an artificial upgrade, or hidden somewhere, or just come out of nowhere with something else being the trigger?
Kyurem sports its own "tail engine". It would make sense to me, since it seems to copy the respective dragon's appearance, that it also changes the appearance of its own "tail engine" to match those of Reshiram/Zekrom.

don()shinobi said:
Charizard is a giant fire-breathing flying monster. I think that qualifies as a dragon.

Gyarados is based off a legend that karp that jumped over a bridge became dragons.

Charizard and Gyarados are dragons. They aren't Dragon-type, but they are dragons.
They aren't dragons, they are obviously Pokémon.
Pokémon that aren't Dragon-type but still draw inspiration from dragons. They are many others, like the Sceptile and Scrafty lines, and even the apparently forever alone Aerodactyl. Still, these Pokémon are not referred to as dragons anywhere (bar Pokémon Ranger, but that is non-canon.) other than being used by Dragon-type trainers such as Lance and Clair.

The members of the Tao Trio, on the other hand are dragons and are even referred to as such mutiple times in the games. Kyurem was also referred to in official advertisement for M15 as "strongest dragon on earth".

Also, i still wonder about the base stats of those jogress forms.
 

Mitja

veteran smartass
Member
Renoir said:
Also, i still wonder about the base stats of those jogress forms.

You need wonder no more. As you surely know, Kyurem only has 660 stats instead of 680. Thats 20 less. Seems random eh?
Reshiram and Zekrom each have one attack stat at 150. Kyurem has both at just 130.
With a black(physical) and white(special) forme based on getting its own generator->an energy boost, suddenly it all makes sense.
Its stats are made for the missing 20 to boost the respective attack:
Black: 125 - 150 - 90 - 130 - 90 - 95 -- 680
White: 125 - 130 - 90 - 150 - 90 - 95 -- 680
It gets on par with them in terms of power, while staying just slightly faster, and while the other two focus more on each defense, Kyurem instead still has the whooping 125 HP going for that department.
It stays distinct while imitating the others, gamefreak you smartasses D:
 

Unfallible

im more perfecter then u :P
Member
Hey, WPM, you accidentally misspelled "retain." Currently your post says "retrain". My computer is having trouble rendering images right now, so I was really confused for sec. xD Sorry to bother you with something so minor.
 

Renoir

Großer Krieger.
Member
Mitja said:
You need wonder no more. As you surely know, Kyurem only has 660 stats instead of 680. Thats 20 less. Seems random eh?
Reshiram and Zekrom each have one attack stat at 150. Kyurem has both at just 130.
With a black(physical) and white(special) forme based on getting its own generator->an energy boost, suddenly it all makes sense.
Its stats are made for the missing 20 to boost the respective attack:
Black: 125 - 150 - 90 - 130 - 90 - 95 -- 680
White: 125 - 130 - 90 - 150 - 90 - 95 -- 680
It gets on par with them in terms of power, while staying just slightly faster, and while the other two focus more on each defense, Kyurem instead still has the whooping 125 HP going for that department.
It stays distinct while imitating the others, gamefreak you smartasses D:
Nice assumption, but i think that would be a too minor change. Shaymin, Giratina and Deoxys (and the others) had proper explanations for their respective changes. Black/White Kyurem is one dominant legendary Pokémon armed with the abilities of another (legendary). A minor stat change by +20 in one of the offensive stats seems actually possible, but way too minor in my opinion, to trigger such a drastic change. I expect 700+ base stats and possible new strongest Pokémon in existence.
 

Vulpix-core

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey
Member
Are those hardcover skins for 3DS?
Even more reason to get one....
I love my ds lite....
hmm....3DS vs. Kindle....
 

JetpackPercy

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Zorua said:
TCG cards:

Water type with Fire type attacks

Water type with Electric attacks.

Real smart >_>

The Delta Species Pokemon say hi!

To stay on topic, competively, White Kyurem should be grateful. I mean, look. If it was Fire/Ice, it would compete with Regigigas as the Worst Legendary Ever. (Slow Start, eat your heart out.) Meanwhile, it's a bit disappointing with Black Kyurem. He could've lost his Stealth Rock Immunity. Aw well, C'est Le Viel, Black/White Kyurem in OU/Uber.
 

Metalizard

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Mitja said:
I see the argument with Gyarados (still hoping theyd have a generation of improving first gens at least about stats and types). They simply messed up there, its not even the only case with not well thought through types like newer standards.

but
giant fire breathing flying monster, is not the definition of dragon types. Whatever it is, its not that.
Giant - size has nothing to do with being a dragon
Fire-Breathing - closer, since its one of the main features of dragons in real mythology, but this is pokemon, breathing fire is not unusual, any kind of creature could do that here. If a pokemon breathes fire that only points to it being Fire type before anything else.
Flying - ummm, self-explanatory.

Charizard is a firebreathing (as in Fire type), lizard with wings I thought. It starts resembeling a dragon with the horns as it evolves but seems like the wings steal the show, hence Flying :p

I wasn't going to touch this subject again, but I really have to point this out. I really don't care anymore if Charizard isn't Dragon-type but saying Charizard's base design isn't a dragon is absolutely incorrect. I agree that his definition was wrong but Charizard is not a lizard with wings. Charizard IS an European dragon. I really don't see how that can still be debatable. If you google "european dragon" in images, most of them are striking similar to Charizard. No other dragon-like pokémon or even real Dragon-types look as much similar to an european dragon as Charizard.
I understand that they didn't make Charizard a real dragon type because they wanted to keep it exclusive to the Dragonite line. It's a shame but I understand that. What I can't understand (and accept) is how people can doubt that Charizard's basis is the european dragon and say it is just a lizard with wings.

Other than this, I'm okay with everything else you said...
 

Blui

lv85 paladin
Member
Hey, I realised something Black Kyrem isn't Ice/Electric because it would be an electrified popsicle (fruit tube is what I call it). I geuss they don't want kids dying :p and White Kyurem is a popsicle that burns :p
 

Teal

黄前さん らしい ね
Member
don()shinobi said:
Gyarados is based off a legend that karp that jumped over a bridge became dragons.

Charizard and Gyarados are dragons. They aren't Dragon-type, but they are dragons.
I have heared that it is based on a tale where karp was damned to look like a dragon, but never being able to become a real dragon. That´s why it is not dragon type.
 

LDStarling

Aspiring Trainer
Member
AnimeUSA said:
Are those hardcover skins for 3DS?
Even more reason to get one....
I love my ds lite....
hmm....3DS vs. Kindle....

A games Console over an E-book reader.....hmmmm what a hard decision LOL
 

Zyflair

Yes, sir. Of course, sir.
Advanced Member
Member
The logic follows as so: Kyurem is a dragon. He absorbs energies from the other dragons and changes form. He is still a dragon. End of story.
 

don()shinobi

PokeBeach's Yu-Gi-Oh enthusiast. I guess.
Member
Teal said:
I have heared that it is based on a tale where karp was damned to look like a dragon, but never being able to become a real dragon. That´s why it is not dragon type.
Bad attempt at April Fools joke is bad.
It IS a dragon. Just not dragon-type. The reason why it's not dragon-type is because Water/Dragon had no weakness in Generation I. Yes, it had a weakness to dragon, but the only damaging dragon-type move at the time did a set amount of damage.
 

Xous

Disappear to a place beyond seeing...
Member
On the topic of Gyarados not being a Dragon (not that the topic was going anywhere, just thought I'd give my opinion) aside from the whole "Dragonite line was meant to be the only Dragons in Generation 1" angle, I always assumed Gyarados was given Flying over Dragon because of the fact its design is primarily based off of a certain Japanese style of windsock.

Anyway, on the topic of the Formes' Types... As others have stated, it makes sense. Kyurem's movepool was sad enough as-is, so hopefully these Formes will add a bit of flair to its abilities with the moves I'm assuming they'll have access to. (Or they could just find a way to ruin it, like making the moves disappear like the Rotom moves do.)
 

kirdneh

Epic Trainer
Member
kinda wierd how it is not ice/ fire and ice/electric, i kinda think it is lame how the star pokemon are just mashed-up previously-existing pokemon.
 

Mitja

veteran smartass
Member
kirdneh said:
kinda wierd how it is not ice/ fire and ice/electric, i kinda think it is lame how the star pokemon are just mashed-up previously-existing pokemon.

-Its not weird.
Dragon/Ice is the only type that makes sense. Losing dragon would have been the weirdest possibility. Star being same type as previous stars would have been weird too, and make no sense when its covered in chuncks of Ice.

-Its not mashed up. Its Kyurem. On power.
Its the dragon without an energy source attached to its tail. So it uses the other 2. The creature beneath still resembles Kyurem.
Even though the particular cloured pieces are the same, it still doesnt have the soft heavenly majestic feel of Reshiram or the streamlined armor heavy solid Zekrom appearance.
And when you notice the awesome blue/orange energy beams, its beyond perfectly fine.
 

kirdneh

Epic Trainer
Member
dragon ice fire? 3 typings on pokemon would make it REALLY hard to strategize. charizard would be fire-flying-dragon, maybe.
 

Cinesra

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Seeing as how their designs imply they're dragons with hunks of ice on them, I'm not surprised by their typings. The fact that the secret moves are both Ice types, and the trio is always referred to as a Dragon trio, means this should've been obvious.

Plus I'm glad White Kyurem isn't 4x weak to SR.
 

kirdneh

Epic Trainer
Member
Blui129 said:
Hey, I realised something Black Kyrem isn't Ice/Electric because it would be an electrified popsicle (fruit tube is what I call it). I geuss they don't want kids dying :p and White Kyurem is a popsicle that burns :p
ooh, look, a popsi-AAAHH, AAHHH, AAAHHHH, it's electricuted me, AAAAH, AAAAHH!!!!!! wait, let me try this pops- OOOUUUCCCHHHH, IT BUUUURRRNNNSSSS!!!!!!!
 
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