Expanded Zorbees! (Vespiquen/Zoroarks)

[Draskk]

I guess I'll take your advice (especially since it gives me an excuse to add in other cards I fell are needed). What do you think of other matchups by the way (such as decks that just released like Shining Genesect/Venusaur)? Are there any bad matchups (I can't think of any besides maybe Buzzwole GX if it becomes a popular deck or Energy Denial)?

Not really. Buzzwole isn't even that bad because Combee has 40 HP so they don't get easy snipes. Plus I highly doubt anyone would be playing it in Expanded. Not to mention they can't even OHKO a Vespi without Knuckle Impacting, which is extremely unideal for them. Tough matchups I've noticed include:

Night March: 50/50: Definitely winnable but extremely intense. Any little misplay or whiff can flip this match. Try to make them want to OHKO your Zoroark GXes so you can swoop in with Oricorio and wreak havoc.

Noivern-GX/Altaria: 45/55: You'd think this would be nigh-autoloss due to Special Energy lock, but Noivern is extremely clunky and you will get at least one turn of DCE. If you can pull off a Choice Banded Zoroark and 8 Benched Pokemon, you have a chance to break the lock and set up another Pokemon, meaning you will easily win. But that's not easy. This matchup is not fun at all but still winnable.

Karen fuels Zoroark, so it's irrelevant. Oricorio can be annoying. Item lock isnt fun but it isnt an autowin against this deck. Sudowoodo is also annoying but not the end of the world.

All-in-all, this deck is extremely hard to counter due to the sheer amount of options it has. Even if your opponent techs heavily for this deck, I was able to beat someone who had Karen, Toad, and Sudowoodo all down in the same turn. Like @FlavorfulPineApl said, the deck has a good shot at beating anything.

 

[Draskk]

Whoops, my bad! I got it confused with the "Ascension" version. Yes, after considering the correct Zorua, I agree with the 2-2 split of DEX and SHL. By the way, why only two Eggexcute? I'd think they would help reset Sky Field and discard (though I may be wrong). Is it because at that point, you'd most likely attack with Vespiquen (just making sure I have the correct mindset when I'm playing). Also, would you consider one Tauros GX as a basic attacker so you can utilize a GX move (since Trickster GX and Tapu Cure GX are out of the equation)?

Tauros-GX is unnecessary IMO and very likely to get OHKOed in Expanded by things like Turbo Darkrai and Night March. However as a wall for the first turn, it might do nicely. But then there's the space issue. As to the Eggs, they're mostly just for Trade and Ultra Ball, really unideal to bench them. 2 is perfect.

 

[FrostBiter12]

Tauros-GX is unnecessary IMO and very likely to get OHKOed in Expanded by things like Turbo Darkrai and Night March. However as a wall for the first turn, it might do nicely. But then there's the space issue. As to the Eggs, they're mostly just for Trade and Ultra Ball, really unideal to bench them. 2 is perfect.

Sure, makes sense. Is there any GX attack this deck can take advantage of? They seem to powerful to miss out on, but based upon what you are saying about matchups, I guess the deck can go without it.

Anyways, I'm going to be testing some of everyone's suggestions soon in my own version (I'm attempting to play Puzzle of Time but I don't know if it works yet). I'll let you know if it fits in, thanks!

 

[Draskk]

Sure, makes sense. Is there any GX attack this deck can take advantage of? They seem to powerful to miss out on, but based upon what you are saying about matchups, I guess the deck can go without it.

Anyways, I'm going to be testing some of everyone's suggestions soon in my own version (I'm attempting to play Puzzle of Time but I don't know if it works yet). I'll let you know if it fits in, thanks!

I think the best option for a GX attack is Tauros, but it isn't needed and space is tight. I just wish Kartana-GX's Blade-GX was a Colorless and not a Steel.

 

[Draskk]

Something I might try is -1 VS Seeker, +1 Lusamine. You don't rely on Supporters for draw that much, and Lusamine can recover Sky Fields in a pinch. Thoughts?

 

[FrostBiter12]

Something I might try is -1 VS Seeker, +1 Lusamine. You don't rely on Supporters for draw that much, and Lusamine can recover Sky Fields in a pinch. Thoughts?

I like the idea of Lusamine for Skyfield, but not removing a VS Seeker for it. Maybe removing a Skyfield itself since you can recover later with Lusamine?

 

[Draskk]

I like the idea of Lusamine for Skyfield, but not removing a VS Seeker for it. Maybe removing a Skyfield itself since you can recover later with Lusamine?

Yeah, that's probably the better cut. I'll test it on TCGO in a bit and let you guys know how it goes

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

Yeah, that's probably the better cut. I'll test it on TCGO in a bit and let you guys know how it goes

Might try this out. Havent had too much of a problem with VS Seeker and supporter counts, but sometimes 3 VS Seekers isnt enough. 1 Lusamine seems fine, especially since I have a FA on PTCGO

 

[joffreyspikes]

Whoops, my bad! I got it confused with the "Ascension" version. Yes, after considering the correct Zorua, I agree with the 2-2 split of DEX and SHL. By the way, why only two Eggexcute? I'd think they would help reset Sky Field and discard (though I may be wrong). Is it because at that point, you'd most likely attack with Vespiquen (just making sure I have the correct mindset when I'm playing). Also, would you consider one Tauros GX as a basic attacker so you can utilize a GX move (since Trickster GX and Tapu Cure GX are out of the equation)?

That is a fantastic idea, but it does defeat the object of using 1 prize attackers wherever possible.

 

[FrostBiter12]

That is a fantastic idea, but it does defeat the object of using 1 prize attackers wherever possible.

Yes, your right, but Zoroark GX is a two-prize attacker as well. Anyways, I was just trying to find a decent GX attack that doesn't take to much to set up and works with the overall strategy. Tauros GX seems like the best option, but I don't know, there may be another. If you find one, let us know. Thanks!

 

[joffreyspikes]

Yes, your right, but Zoroark GX is a two-prize attacker as well. Anyways, I was just trying to find a decent GX attack that doesn't take to much to set up and works with the overall strategy. Tauros GX seems like the best option, but I don't know, there may be another. If you find one, let us know. Thanks!

I am not sure this deck needs a GX attack. You will hopefully be one hitting most things with your bees.

 

[Draskk]

Tested -1 Sky Field +1 Lusamine; didn't like it. Found myself missing Sky Field at crucial times without the third there. One thing I have noticed about this deck: prizing Shaymins really hurts. I may try to find space for a fourth.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

Tested -1 Sky Field +1 Lusamine; didn't like it. Found myself missing Sky Field at crucial times without the third there. One thing I have noticed about this deck: prizing Shaymins really hurts. I may try to find space for a fourth.

True, but I always seem to prize N, Guzma, or Colress when I need them instead of the Shaymins. I didn't like Lusamine either. I never draw into Sky Fields early enough with just 2.

 

[FrostBiter12]

Hey, just wanted to bring up a problem I've come across in tests. When it's your first turn, I find that the only thing I'm looking for are a few Zorua and Combee, but I'd rather not waste a Shaymin EX or two finding them and remove those options late game. So I decided to add a Brigette (maybe it's because I'm mainly a Standard format player). I don't know if everyone agrees on this, but I'd greatly appreciate some feedback. Thanks!

Edit: Also, forgot to mention this, but Pokémon Fan Club works as well if you want to grab a Shaymin EX with it. I prefer Brigette though (since if you need bench Pokémon for Riotous Beating, you can use Brigette to replenish your bench or fill it up after Sky Field).

 

[Wechselbalg]

In case anyone's interested, I also made a few changes to my Vespi/Zoro list. I've been doing some testing online and I do run into M Ray from time to time so I decided to tech in a Sudowoodoo among other things. Sudowoodoo not only helps against M Ray but also against anything else that likes to spam Shaymins/Hoopas.

I also have to agree that DEX Zorua is really the best choice. Anyway, I think my approach to this deck is somewhat different, as I only use Vespi as a tech and I focus mostly on Zoroark. Vespiquen can help out with the Zoroark/Lycanrock matchup (which seems to be rather popular) by hitting Lycanrock for weakness (tbh I don't think Zoro/Lycanrock has much synergy other than hitting other Zoroarks for weakness but whatever floats people's boats I guess) and due to her free retreat she also helps out when I play Guzma. I dropped the baby Zoroark altogether because:

a) without Float Stone it's not that great and there's no room for that plus playing only 1 copy is not a great idea imo
b)people do not fall for it most of the time anyway
c) even if I get to use it it's mostly once per game as it gets KOed the next turn and I lose a DCE.

Here's what my list looks like now and I have to say that I've achieved some positive results with it against other meta decks.

Pokémon - 19

1 Shaymin-EX
4 Zorua DEX
3 Zoroark-GX
1 Sudowoodo GRI
2 Combee
2 Vespiquen AOR
3 Exeggcute
1 Oricorio
2 Tapu Lele-GX

Trainer Cards - 37

1 Rescue Stretcher
1 N
1 Acerola --->great way to save a Zoroark if the opponent misses a KO
1 Brigette
4 Battle Compressor
2 Special Charge
2 Field Blower
2 Guzma BUS
4 Professor Juniper
1 Colress
3 Sky Field
1 Mallow
1 Hex Maniac
4 Choice Band
4 Ultra Ball
1 Dowsing Machine---->with all the draw support from Zoroark/Exeggcute/Mallow/Shayming etc. I find this to be a better Ace Spec than Comp. Search for this deck
4 VS Seeker

4 DCE

I guess I could swap 1 Compressor for an additional Shaymin but right now I think that's the only change I'd make.

 

[joffreyspikes]

In case anyone's interested, I also made a few changes to my Vespi/Zoro list. I've been doing some testing online and I do run into M Ray from time to time so I decided to tech in a Sudowoodoo among other things. Sudowoodoo not only helps against M Ray but also against anything else that likes to spam Shaymins/Hoopas.

I also have to agree that DEX Zorua is really the best choice. Anyway, I think my approach to this deck is somewhat different, as I only use Vespi as a tech and I focus mostly on Zoroark. Vespiquen can help out with the Zoroark/Lycanrock matchup (which seems to be rather popular) by hitting Lycanrock for weakness (tbh I don't think Zoro/Lycanrock has much synergy other than hitting other Zoroarks for weakness but whatever floats people's boats I guess) and due to her free retreat she also helps out when I play Guzma. I dropped the baby Zoroark altogether because:

a) without Float Stone it's not that great and there's no room for that plus playing only 1 copy is not a great idea imo
b)people do not fall for it most of the time anyway
c) even if I get to use it it's mostly once per game as it gets KOed the next turn and I lose a DCE.

Here's what my list looks like now and I have to say that I've achieved some positive results with it against other meta decks.

Pokémon - 19

1 Shaymin-EX
4 Zorua DEX
3 Zoroark-GX
1 Sudowoodo GRI
2 Combee
2 Vespiquen AOR
3 Exeggcute
1 Oricorio
2 Tapu Lele-GX

Trainer Cards - 37

1 Rescue Stretcher
1 N
1 Acerola --->great way to save a Zoroark if the opponent misses a KO
1 Brigette
4 Battle Compressor
2 Special Charge
2 Field Blower
2 Guzma BUS
4 Professor Juniper
1 Colress
3 Sky Field
1 Mallow
1 Hex Maniac
4 Choice Band
4 Ultra Ball
1 Dowsing Machine---->with all the draw support from Zoroark/Exeggcute/Mallow/Shayming etc. I find this to be a better Ace Spec than Comp. Search for this deck
4 VS Seeker

4 DCE

I guess I could swap 1 Compressor for an additional Shaymin but right now I think that's the only change I'd make.

I can’t say I agree with this list too much. Gekki’s is much better for me. Vespiquen is not a sidenote: she is our queen and as a result we need to play a 4-4 line of her.You need to play at least 1 Zoroark BKT, and yes, people on TCGO are silly, and they do fall for the Sky Field trick. I run Volcanion so I do not have much choice. I do not agree with so many Eggs, and 3-4 Shaybae is vital in Vespi builds due to the fast, burn through your deck nature of the archetype. And finally, Computer Search is better than DM here because it is literally the only way in the entire Expanded format where you can reliably search for Special Energy.

 

[FrostBiter12]

Hey, just wanted to bring up another problem I've come across (again). I haven't had a lot of luck against Item lock (not to mention Special Energy lock) and I've been looking for some solutions. I'm about to test Ghetsis (to give me a few more turns of set up) since it works against other decks as well, but other options would be Pokémon Ranger or Marowak from FCO (though I'd rather not play either). Some playstyle solutions I've found are the absurd "Sky Return" roll. It literally is just playing two Shaymin EXs down and using Sky Return over and over again until I run into a better option (keep in mind, this works mainly against Seismitoad EX/Seviper since they can't OHKO you even with poison). Another is focusing on Zoroark GX as a draw support option that can help you through bad hands and provide a good amount of damage when needed. If you have any other solutions, let us know. Thanks!

 

[Draskk]

Hey, just wanted to bring up a problem I've come across in tests. When it's your first turn, I find that the only thing I'm looking for are a few Zorua and Combee, but I'd rather not waste a Shaymin EX or two finding them and remove those options late game. So I decided to add a Brigette (maybe it's because I'm mainly a Standard format player). I don't know if everyone agrees on this, but I'd greatly appreciate some feedback. Thanks!

Edit: Also, forgot to mention this, but Pokémon Fan Club works as well if you want to grab a Shaymin EX with it. I prefer Brigette though (since if you need bench Pokémon for Riotous Beating, you can use Brigette to replenish your bench or fill it up after Sky Field).

I dislike Brigette in this deck because the point of the deck is to go through 20-30 cards on turn one with Compressors, Shays, and Sycamores. I also haven't had any problems getting down Zoruas and Combees T1.

In case anyone's interested, I also made a few changes to my Vespi/Zoro list. I've been doing some testing online and I do run into M Ray from time to time so I decided to tech in a Sudowoodoo among other things. Sudowoodoo not only helps against M Ray but also against anything else that likes to spam Shaymins/Hoopas.

I also have to agree that DEX Zorua is really the best choice. Anyway, I think my approach to this deck is somewhat different, as I only use Vespi as a tech and I focus mostly on Zoroark. Vespiquen can help out with the Zoroark/Lycanrock matchup (which seems to be rather popular) by hitting Lycanrock for weakness (tbh I don't think Zoro/Lycanrock has much synergy other than hitting other Zoroarks for weakness but whatever floats people's boats I guess) and due to her free retreat she also helps out when I play Guzma. I dropped the baby Zoroark altogether because:

a) without Float Stone it's not that great and there's no room for that plus playing only 1 copy is not a great idea imo
b)people do not fall for it most of the time anyway
c) even if I get to use it it's mostly once per game as it gets KOed the next turn and I lose a DCE.

Here's what my list looks like now and I have to say that I've achieved some positive results with it against other meta decks.

Pokémon - 19

1 Shaymin-EX
4 Zorua DEX
3 Zoroark-GX
1 Sudowoodo GRI
2 Combee
2 Vespiquen AOR
3 Exeggcute
1 Oricorio
2 Tapu Lele-GX

Trainer Cards - 37

1 Rescue Stretcher
1 N
1 Acerola --->great way to save a Zoroark if the opponent misses a KO
1 Brigette
4 Battle Compressor
2 Special Charge
2 Field Blower
2 Guzma BUS
4 Professor Juniper
1 Colress
3 Sky Field
1 Mallow
1 Hex Maniac
4 Choice Band
4 Ultra Ball
1 Dowsing Machine---->with all the draw support from Zoroark/Exeggcute/Mallow/Shayming etc. I find this to be a better Ace Spec than Comp. Search for this deck
4 VS Seeker

4 DCE

I guess I could swap 1 Compressor for an additional Shaymin but right now I think that's the only change I'd make.

What @joffreyspikes said (except that Dowsing Machine is better than Computer Search in this deck because you often discard stuff you don't want to discard and because you have Mallow+Trade to search for DCE).

Hey, just wanted to bring up another problem I've come across (again). I haven't had a lot of luck against Item lock (not to mention Special Energy lock) and I've been looking for some solutions. I'm about to test Ghetsis (to give me a few more turns of set up) since it works against other decks as well, but other options would be Pokémon Ranger or Marowak from FCO (though I'd rather not play either). Some playstyle solutions I've found are the absurd "Sky Return" roll. It literally is just playing two Shaymin EXs down and using Sky Return over and over again until I run into a better option (keep in mind, this works mainly against Seismitoad EX/Seviper since they can't OHKO you even with poison). Another is focusing on Zoroark GX as a draw support option that can help you through bad hands and provide a good amount of damage when needed. If you have any other solutions, let us know. Thanks!

I've had no problems with Toad since it's weak to Vespi and as long as I have one turn of items (which Toad allows) I'm fine. Trevenant is annoying because they can get T1 lock, but if they don't they'll get wallopped by Zoroark the entire game.

 

[Draskk]

I have a third Zoroark now so I think I'll test with a 3/1 split of the GX and Mind Jack. I'll let you guys know how it goes

 

[The Last Shaymin]

can you guys upload an updated decklist?