Discussion Standard Meta Tier List

[Pokemaster26]

Just a couple things to say.
First of all Rainbow Road just won internationals in juniors and definitely should be tier 3 possibly tier 2. Then this may just be me but it seems like volcanion should be tier 1 because it is fast and good, but idk. And then lastly, greninja is definitely tier 1. It won seniors NAIC and got second in Juniors. Along with that, it has performed very well in other tournaments

 

[Fayld]

Just a couple things to say.
First of all Rainbow Road just won internationals in juniors and definitely should be tier 3 possibly tier 2. Then this may just be me but it seems like volcanion should be tier 1 because it is fast and good, but idk. And then lastly, greninja is definitely tier 1. It won seniors NAIC and got second in Juniors. Along with that, it has performed very well in other tournaments

Winning anything in Juniors isn't a future indicator of success in masters. Setting aside the age issue (which is a huge factor), there are way fewer Juniors (and Seniors) in every major tournament making it far easier for a deck like this to navigate the tournament for a surprise win. Rainbow Road runs hot and cold. When it is running hot, it is almost impossible to beat. But when you have to go through 15+ rounds like you do at NAIC Masters level, it isn't going to get you where you need to go. While I agree that the deck should be tier 3, there is no world in which it is higher than tier 3.

As for Greninja, it is a tier 2 deck for a reason...consistency. It isn't consistent enough that you can assume you will walk into a game expecting to consistently get everything you need for it to run well. When it runs hot, it is absolutely tier 1. When it runs cold, it runs ice cold and doesn't deserve to be tiered. Normal consistency for the deck, it is tier 2.

 

[TheDude133]

was waiting till monday morning for any changes on list and updating tiers.

The amount of reading that goes on here is astounding

 

[Trixss]

Seems weird to me to have Solgaleo/ Lurantis and Solgaleo/ Rayquaza in the same list. Rayquaza/ Drampa is pretty much straight up better than Lurantis variants.

Never seen a drampa list before, I agree it is weird to have them I forgot a lurantis solgaleo deck was a thing anymore.

Just a couple things to say.
First of all Rainbow Road just won internationals in juniors and definitely should be tier 3 possibly tier 2. Then this may just be me but it seems like volcanion should be tier 1 because it is fast and good, but idk. And then lastly, greninja is definitely tier 1. It won seniors NAIC and got second in Juniors. Along with that, it has performed very well in other tournaments

I Agree with Rainbow road being a Tier 3 or 2 deck I always thought it was good but never had any performance after SUM was released. I can see its potential comeback so I have put it in Tier 3 as it's a deck that can pose a threat. As for Greninja its too inconsistent and that's basically the only reason its been stuck in tier 2 for so long.

The amount of reading that goes on here is astounding

Thanks I try my best.

All that said Updated Tier's next update should be August 7th or 14th depending on how many decklist. Goodnight good luck and have fun everyone.

 

[TheDude133]

Thanks I try my best.

All that said Updated Tier's next update should be August 7th or 14th depending on how many decklist. Goodnight good luck and have fun everyone.

I just said it because there was three or four people who said "update this" after you told them when it was going to be updated. lol

 

[Trixss]

I just said it because there was three or four people who said "update this" after you told them when it was going to be updated. lol

Ah I see I couldn't tell myself if it was directed toward everyone or if it was sarcasm to me so I just decided to take it as a compliment

 

[CaptZero]

Never seen a drampa list before, I agree it is weird to have them I forgot a lurantis solgaleo deck was a thing anymore.

Drampa GX is a secondary attacker that works nicely with Solgaleo's big health pool. Solgaleo GX sponges a hit and then retreats to allow Drampa to hit hard while you either build up slowly or fish for a Max Potion.

 

[Elray]

Here are the decks that won't survive rotation (either loses its main attacker or specific trainer cards that make it good):

Tier 1:
Decidueye Plume

Tier 2:
Vespiquen
M Rayquaza

Tier 3:
All safe!

Tier X:
Tauros Giratina
Gyarados
Darkrai Dragons

 

[HT F8]

Here are the decks that won't survive rotation (either loses its main attacker or specific trainer cards that make it good):

Tier 1:
Decidueye Plume

Tier 2:
Vespiquen
M Rayquaza

Tier 3:
All safe!

Tier X:
Tauros Giratina
Gyarados
Darkrai Dragons

As a returning player, I was just about to ask for/research this. Thank you for saving me a bunch of work. ^^;

 

[Elray]

As a returning player, I was just about to ask for/research this. Thank you for saving me a bunch of work. ^^;

Glad I could help!

Another thing to keep in mind is that Mega Turbo is rotating as well, so the remaining mega decks are going to have a tougher time overall.

 

[TheDude133]

"remaining"

Mega Mewtwo is basically dead at this point, and Mega Gardevoir dies without Shaymin. The only mega deck left is M-Scizor, and even then it doesn't have good match-ups into anything.

 

[cardgjammer]

When I saw the burning shadows setlist, one thing jumped out at me:

Necrozma.

^ Could that be Metagross(GRI)'s long-awaited sidekick?

^ I mean, its Prismatic Burst attack might give not only Gardy, but Ho-Oh-GX AND Charizard-GX as well, some competition outside of the prereleases, which Metagross-GX is sadly not included in...

^ But if it was, since Necrozma + 3 Geotech Systems + 1 Psychic manual attachment = 250 damage, enough to KO any GX not resistant to Psychic, w/ this new sidekick, do you think that Metagross-GX does not have to worry about its fire weakness, as long as it sits on bench and lets Necrozma do the KOs while Metagross-GX scoops discard energy to Necrozma?

^ If that thing is enough to alleviate Metal's Fire weakness w/o Sunne on the active stadium slot, then I'd say Metagross-GX could go up to tier 1 from current tier 2 once Burning Shadows street day rolls around, but what do you think?

 

[TheDude133]

When I saw the burning shadows setlist, one thing jumped out at me:

Necrozma.

^ Could that be Metagross(GRI)'s long-awaited sidekick?

^ I mean, its Prismatic Burst attack might give not only Gardy, but Ho-Oh-GX AND Charizard-GX as well, some competition outside of the prereleases, which Metagross-GX is sadly not included in...

^ But if it was, since Necrozma + 3 Geotech Systems + 1 Psychic manual attachment = 250 damage, enough to KO any GX not resistant to Psychic, w/ this new sidekick, do you think that Metagross-GX does not have to worry about its fire weakness, as long as it sits on bench and lets Necrozma do the KOs while Metagross-GX scoops discard energy to Necrozma?

^ If that thing is enough to alleviate Metal's Fire weakness w/o Sunne on the active stadium slot, then I'd say Metagross-GX could go up to tier 1 from current tier 2 once Burning Shadows street day rolls around, but what do you think?

Necrozma is weak to Psychic (Garbodor) which is Metagross's best matchup. The deck already beats Gardevoir because of weakness. It makes Metagross worse, not better. Yes it's OHKO potential is there, but Metagross has 0 problems OHKOing most decks now. Even the one's it doesn't OHKO can't OHKO him back.

 

[Kietharr]

Necrozma is worth including as a one of just for black ray imo depending on how GX evolution heavy the meta is, a black ray lets Metagross easily OHKO all of the GX evolutions it otherwise has to 2HKO, really speeds up the pace of the deck in those circumstances. Also worth noting for its ability to wall the common early Drampa pressure, without Hex Maniac there's no easy way to around the ability aside from Guzma/switching card shenanigans.

 

[TheDude133]

"in those circumstances."

Using circumstances is a bad way to judge the quality of a card. While yes, Black Ray GX can hit the back line that they swtiched out of, it's also a liability at that point. Because Metagross GX can 2HKO everything without the fear of getting OHKO'd by anything not FIRE type, you won't need the snipe from Necrozma GX. Here's a good comparison. Raikou EX when it came out in Dark Exploreres (i think that was the set), was a heavily debated card in Eels. Some people did, some people didn't. The argument, was that you could use him to snipe the crucial Eels in the back line, or a super low EX that took a Zekrom/Rayquaza punch. The majority of players did play it at one, because they could throw it away. Yes it came in handy in obscure situations, but out of 100 games, 75% of those you discarded it for Ultra Ball or Computer Search, because the situation wasn't there, and it wasn't worth holding onto in hand or playing on bench (Sometimes you didn't have the room to bench it). Were there people who still played it? Yes. Did they have success with it in their deck? Yes. Could you play it as a one-of without it hindering you? Yes. I won't say it's a bad tech, but I will warn you that you will almost never use it.

Also worth noting for its ability to wall the common early Drampa pressure, without Hex Maniac there's no easy way to around the ability aside from Guzma/switching card shenanigans.

There's two problems i see with this. One is Alter of the Moone. It's real easy to get Drampa GX out of the Active spot, and Garbodor can OHKO Necrozma GX with 3 trainers and a Choice Band. Against Zoroark BREAK, you MIGHT be able to force a bad switch, but you also don't need to wall Drampa GX against that deck since you OHKO everything anyways with Metagross GX. Two is the Metagross GX damage. I just don't see a time where walling Drampa GX is better than killing it with Metagross GX. You could argue that getting a bad setup is one situation, but let's be honest, out of 100 games, what's the percentage of a bad setup, and out of that percentage, what's the percentage where walling a Drampa GX with Necrozma GX is available?

 

[Ecourts]

Mega Gardevoir dies without Shaymin.

I don't think this is the case, actually.
M Gardevoir doesn't have a tricky set-up; it's two energy, and a mega evolution.

The Shaymin card draw, while nice, is not entirely necessary.
You still have re-usable resources in things like Hoopa, Dragonite, and now Lele.
Could even throw in the Marshadow leaked in Shining Legends~

A lot of people have been swapping out their Shaymins for Leles already, even though it hasn't rotated.
I don't see why Gardevoir can't do the same.

I think it just genuinely has a tough time in the meta, with or without Shaymin.
With that said, I'll still be doing some testing with it post-rotation; I just like the deck.
Using Pokemon to fetch cards, instead of items, could prove beneficial.

Though it pretty much auto-loses to Metagross.

 

[TheDude133]

I don't think this is the case, actually.
M Gardevoir doesn't have a tricky set-up; it's two energy, and a mega evolution.

The Shaymin card draw, while nice, is not entirely necessary.
You still have re-usable resources in things like Hoopa, Dragonite, and now Lele.
Could even throw in the Marshadow leaked in Shining Legends~

A lot of people have been swapping out their Shaymins for Leles already, even though it hasn't rotated.
I don't see why Gardevoir can't do the same.

I think it just genuinely has a tough time in the meta, with or without Shaymin.
With that said, I'll still be doing some testing with it post-rotation; I just like the deck.
Using Pokemon to fetch cards, instead of items, could prove beneficial.

Though it pretty much auto-loses to Metagross.

The two lists at Internationals both used three Shaymin EX minimum. And the reason it dies without Shaymin EX is because of the draw power. You need to draw your skybase (which rotates anyways, so the deck is dead anyways), your pokemon, your tech pokemon, and your Mega Spirit Links. The deck has such a thick pokemon line, that it's setup line is very small. You need minimum three Shaymin EX. But again, deck dies without Skybase anyways.

 

[Ecourts]

The two lists at Internationals both used three Shaymin EX minimum. And the reason it dies without Shaymin EX is because of the draw power. You need to draw your skybase (which rotates anyways, so the deck is dead anyways), your pokemon, your tech pokemon, and your Mega Spirit Links. The deck has such a thick pokemon line, that it's setup line is very small. You need minimum three Shaymin EX. But again, deck dies without Skybase anyways.

Did either of those lists make Top8?
My point was, the deck isn't going to die because Shaymin leaves.
It's dead, because of the current meta.

I never liked the Sky Field version, personally.
But that's a different story.

 

[Elray]

I play M Gardevoir (albeit in expanded) and I only use one Shaymin-EX. Frankly, it's a liability cause of its low HP but it does help with consistency. Oricorio's Vital Dance ability gets me the energy I need and Hoopa-EX fills up my bench quickly. I use Skyla to grab Sky Field or a spirit link if I haven't drawn them already. Sudowoodo provides a counter to M Ray.

M Gardevoir struggles against decks that discard energy and tools easily, and ability lock hurts. The Standard meta isn't very hospitable at the moment, but the deck will live on in expanded.

 

[StevenM]

So what variants of Garb will be tier 1 post rotation? Volcanion is gonna have a rough time if Greninja comes back so I'm in the market for a new deck. I just don't know anything I'd like to play. Gardevoir seems good but I don't like it.