Greninja BREAK

Evader said:
As we can already see after the rotation there will be a lot of space in this deck for some techs to deal with new threats or just help us with new strategies.
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Agreed.

For some reason I completely missed the fact that Greninja is set to lose Sacred Ash (!) and Hard Charm too. In the case of the former, however, Karen will be around and in some ways is a better option.

Also, it's definitely worth pointing out that we get Pokemon Ranger for the mirror (and for dealing with Glaceon-EX now that we've lost Greninja XY & Mist Slash)! Pokemon Ranger will remove the effect of Shadow Stitching, allowing you to use Giant Water Shuriken during your turn. Thank goodness we'll be getting something that will reliably lessen the tedium.

On the Garbodor issue - are there any splashable Basic Pokemon that can attack for a single Energy and discard tool cards? I can only think of Beedrill-EX so far.
 
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With Startling Megaphone and Xerosic out of format, I think that Bent Spoon won't be that bad in a mirror.
About a Basic that can get rid of tools, the PRC Mr. Mime is also an option, since it gives only 1 prize when knocked out, but that retreat cost is really bad.
 
Calcab said:
With Startling Megaphone and Xerosic out of format, I think that Bent Spoon won't be that bad in a mirror.
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Good point.

I think Pokemon Ranger outclasses Bent Spoon though. Yes it's uses up your Supporter for turn but it allows all of your Greninja BREAK to use GWS and you can reuse it with VS Seeker. It also has the added benefit of removing other negative effects, such as Glaceon-EX's Crystal Ray.

My main gripe with Bent Spoon is that it doesn't remove effects on the turn that you attach it, which is a pity.
 
WastedSkyPirate said:
For some reason I completely missed the fact that Greninja is set to lose Sacred Ash (!) and Hard Charm too. In the case of the former, however, Karen will be around and in some ways is a better option.
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I think that instead we'll be running 2x Super Rod (right now it's 1SacredAsh-1SuperRod). Yes it's 2 less pokemon, but I never actually needed to bring more than 1 complete line or 1-Greninja and 1-Greninja Break everytime I used a Sacred ash.
I've never tried Hard Charm, didn't seem to do that much (at least for me in my local league). I've used Muscle Bands at first (they'll get rotated) and for now I've settled with 2-3 Bursting Balloons that can do wonders when you go vs a mirror or NM. I don't think that hard charm rotating will cause problems.

WastedSkyPirate said:
On the Garbodor issue - are there any splashable Basic Pokemon that can attack for a single Energy and discard tool cards? I can only think of Beedrill-EX so far.
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I don't think that using a pokemon to discard an item and then try to KO on the next turn will be worth it.
I mean it's easier/safer to lysandre it 2 times to KO it rather than:
Lysandre Garb. (and hope your opponent doesn't have any items to throw on it) > GWS+Attack or 2xGWS it (if it gets switched) for the KO next turn.
However, I'm saying once again. I don't think that we are going to be left without an item discarding card.
 
Evader said:
I think that instead we'll be running 2x Super Rod (right now it's 1SacredAsh-1SuperRod). Yes it's 2 less pokemon, but I never actually needed to bring more than 1 complete line or 1-Greninja and 1-Greninja Break everytime I used a Sacred ash.
I've never tried Hard Charm, didn't seem to do that much (at least for me in my local league). I've used Muscle Bands at first (they'll get rotated) and for now I've settled with 2-3 Bursting Balloons that can do wonders when you go vs a mirror or NM. I don't think that hard charm rotating will cause problems.



I don't think that using a pokemon to discard an item and then try to KO on the next turn will be worth it.
I mean it's easier/safer to lysandre it 2 times to KO it rather than:
Lysandre Garb. (and hope your opponent doesn't have any items to throw on it) > GWS+Attack or 2xGWS it (if it gets switched) for the KO next turn.
However, I'm saying once again. I don't think that we are going to be left without an item discarding card.
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Agreed.

Right now, Bursting Balloon seems the obvious Tool of choice for Greninja in the future.

On Garbodor; I'm just trying to think outside the box because, as it stands, it's going to be a bloody nightmare and double Lysandre-ing it is pretty gross (but so is Pokemon X using attack for turn to remove Tools). Unless a Tool-discarding Item card is printed then there's no easy solution.
 
WastedSkyPirate said:
Agreed.
On Garbodor; I'm just trying to think outside the box because, as it stands, it's going to be a bloody nightmare and double Lysandre-ing it is pretty gross (but so is Pokemon X using attack for turn to remove Tools). Unless a Tool-discarding Item card is printed then there's no easy solution.
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Yeah. I'm scared of what will happen to my Greninjas (it's my first competitive deck that feels awesome to use) in case there won't be any item discarding cards, but I feel like that would make Garbodor stupidly OP vs a lot of decks so I don't think that this is going to be the case. We'll just have to wait and hope for the best!
 
I started playing recently, sadly of all the competitive decks i chose greninja, i really love the way the deck plays, it is really fun when it works but now i'm kinda leaning towards selling everything, to me the future of this deck doesn't look so promising, here in Chile everyone is trying out gabodor decks and it is becoming really hard to counter them everytime... what do you think guys, should i wait and see how everything turns out to be with rotation or is it time to say goodbye to greninja as a competitive deck?
 
LuchoCL said:
I started playing recently, sadly of all the competitive decks i chose greninja, i really love the way the deck plays, it is really fun when it works but now i'm kinda leaning towards selling everything, to me the future of this deck doesn't look so promising, here in Chile everyone is trying out gabodor decks and it is becoming really hard to counter them everytime... what do you think guys, should i wait and see how everything turns out to be with rotation or is it time to say goodbye to greninja as a competitive deck?
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An interesting by-product of an increase in Garbador is the cycle of deck choices it makes. If everyone is playing ability dependant decks (Trev, Greninja, Vileplume, Alakazam), then Garbador usage rises to beat them. Since Garbador only really works in decks that don't need abilities to function, decks like M Ray, Water Tool-box and Sceptile rise in popularity. But that makes Garbador kinda dead, so its usage drops. Then Greninja is good again.

Even post rotation, it has a really solid match-up with most of the predicted top decks (M Sceptile aside), providing Garbador is out of action. And, if my testing continues along the same line, a faster build (4x Wally is my current test) can drop Giant Water Shurikens before Garb is set up.
 
Just trying Greninja deck out, however I can't afford Jirachi yet. What would be the best replacement? (I do understand that cards aren't that replaceable, and they're in the deck for a reason, however I'd like to play the best I can with the cards I have).

Thanks a lot!
 
Fake said:
Just trying Greninja deck out, however I can't afford Jirachi yet. What would be the best replacement? (I do understand that cards aren't that replaceable, and they're in the deck for a reason, however I'd like to play the best I can with the cards I have).

Thanks a lot!
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If you're looking for a replacement to use post-rotation, I don't think it's necessary. Jirachi was used mainly because of Night March, Seismitoad, Vespiplume and other decks that played with DCE, I play Greninja and I won't be using Jirachi in the next format (maybe, if I do, it'll be only one).

If you're looking for a replacement for the current format, I think the closer you can get is Xerosic.
 
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Calcab said:
If you're looking for a replacement to use post-rotation, I don't think it's necessary. Jirachi was used mainly because of Night March, Seismitoad, Vespiplume and other decks that played with DCE, I play Greninja and I won't be using Jirachi in the next format (maybe, if I do, it'll be only one).

If you're looking for a replacement for this rotation, I think the closer you can get is Xerosic.
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Many thanks. Regarding the post rotation, what do you feel that will be the replacements?
 
Fake said:
Many thanks. Regarding the post rotation, what do you feel that will be the replacements?
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I think that each player will find their personal changes. Since Jirachi was used only as a counter card, these spaces will be replaced with others counter cards, I'll probably run 1 Glaceon against that many M-Sceptiles, Bent Spoon for mirrors and, without the Greninja XY, I'll find space for Bursting Balloons.
 
Calcab said:
I think that each player will find their personal changes. Since Jirachi was used only as a counter card, these spaces will be replaced with others counter cards, I'll probably run 1 Glaceon against that many M-Sceptiles, Bent Spoon for mirrors and, without the Greninja XY, I'll find space for Bursting Balloons.
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I was wondering of Ace Trainer, considering I usually start behind, having my first Frogadier knocked out. I'll experimetnate and test.

Thanks a lot.
 
Many people use Ace Trainer in Greninja, but personally I don't like it because it's very situational, and now we have N, that is more consistent on the long run.
 
Is Greninja still going to be effective with the 2017 rotation, or is there Greninja just worthless now.

Also can you evolve into Greninja and then go straight into G BREAK or does the BREAK count as an evolution, so it would take two turns.
 
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LiftoffLizard said:
Is Greninja still going to be effective with the 2017 rotation, or is there Greninja just worthless now.

Also can you evolve into Greninja and then go straight into G BREAK or does the BREAK count as an evolution, so it would take two turns.
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Greninja's general approach is still effective, as all it really lost is Greninja XY (helpful but not essential), Startling Megaphone/Xerosic, and Muscle Band. However, the meta looks like it might shape up to be much more hostile to Greninja than the current one. Without reliable tool removal, any Garbodor deck can stop it really easily, and M Sceptile-EX and M Rayquaza-EX are both projected to get more common post-rotation. Greninja loses some measure of effectiveness, but that's more due to the rest of the meta than a change in how the deck itself operates. I could easily see it dropping to a Tier 3 deck.

BREAK-evolving works just like a regular evolution, so you have to wait a turn unless you're using Wally to evolve Greninja.
 
dwarfstar said:
Greninja's general approach is still effective, as all it really lost is Greninja XY (helpful but not essential), Startling Megaphone/Xerosic, and Muscle Band. However, the meta looks like it might shape up to be much more hostile to Greninja than the current one. Without reliable tool removal, any Garbodor deck can stop it really easily, and M Sceptile-EX and M Rayquaza-EX are both projected to get more common post-rotation. Greninja loses some measure of effectiveness, but that's more due to the rest of the meta than a change in how the deck itself operates. I could easily see it dropping to a Tier 3 deck.

BREAK-evolving works just like a regular evolution, so you have to wait a turn unless you're using Wally to evolve Greninja.
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Well then this is both good and bad. Finally Sceptile will be in some sense viable, but Greninja loses some of its ground.
 
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