It wouldn't work because Silvally GX is a Stage 1 Pokemon which aren't effected by Steam Up. If it was a basic, Steam Up would work since it's considered a fire type with Fire Memory attached.
Discussion Don't be surprised if Metal falls flat
- Thread starter Perfect_Shot
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It wouldn't work because Silvally GX is a Stage 1 Pokemon which aren't effected by Steam Up. If it was a basic, Steam Up would work since it's considered a fire type with Fire Memory attached.
Are those new stuff? Old stuff that benefits from the new? Not trying to obfuscate; I thought the focus of the discussion was how the new [M] stuff in Ultra Prism was supposed to make [M] focused decks dominant, but @Perfect_Shot, myself, and others don't think it is happening.
Also, there is Professor Kukui.
Are those new stuff? Old stuff that benefits from the new? Not trying to obfuscate; I thought the focus of the discussion was how the new [M] stuff in Ultra Prism was supposed to make [M] focused decks dominant, but @Perfect_Shot, myself, and others don't think it is happening.
Also, there is Professor Kukui.
The new Ultra Sun and Moon cards will improve existing metal decks and bring about some new ones. It's easy to look at the new cards in a bubble, but you gotta look at what already exists as well. Some new metal decks focusing on probably Dusk Mane Necrozma and Magnezone will crop up, but Metagross and Solgaleo who were already strong cards and will be receiving new resources to make them better will also see a come back.
Also, Professor Kukui means another piece of the puzzle you gotta fit to get a single OHKO.
No, because it's not a Basic, but Lurantis Promos ability would.
I have seen a few people suggest this so I printed up some Dialga GX proxies to test with my friends tonight.
I pulled a Dialga GX in a Prerealese on Sunday and found that it works well with Magnazone, with both setting up and using the Broken GX attack. Although, I have yet to test it with Metagross GX/Zoroak GX witch I will do tonight, like Lannden.
Steam Up only boosts basic fire pokemon
Back to the new metal Pokemon, do you think that decks like Magnazone/Hetran and Dusk mane Necrozma/Magnazone will be any good or have an impact on the current format???
Heatran/Magnazone with Mount Coronet might be a decent rouge deck that could be pretty good but I want to know what you guys think.
Dusk Mane Necrozma/Magnazone is really clunky but could have potential being able to hit for 220, 250 with a choice band, but again what do you guys think???
Heatran/Magnazone with Mount Coronet might be a decent rouge deck that could be pretty good but I want to know what you guys think.
Dusk Mane Necrozma/Magnazone is really clunky but could have potential being able to hit for 220, 250 with a choice band, but again what do you guys think???
Are those new stuff? Old stuff that benefits from the new? Not trying to obfuscate; I thought the focus of the discussion was how the new [M] stuff in Ultra Prism was supposed to make [M] focused decks dominant, but @Perfect_Shot, myself, and others don't think it is happening.
Also, there is Professor Kukui.
I did mainly post this with that point in mind, though there was an other reason for me to type this up, as well: I knew that there may be many players wanting to build around Metal, and perhaps rush out and buy the cards without really looking into them. I wanted to make this to serve as a warning that they may not be all they are hyped to be, and that doing this might prevent players who were expecting to have a shiny new 'tier 1' deck in their hands from being disappointed.
Having the cards for fun games and collecting is another thing entirely, though.
Although I am glad to bring up some discussion about the type in general, Metal usually falls by the wayside in terms of popularity.
As for the questions about Dusk Mane/Magnezone, I would assume it would be too slow for either format since it plays very similarily to the old Rayquaza EX/Emboar and Black Kyurem EX/Blastoise decks, which fell out of favor quite some time ago.
True, but Dusk mane Necrozma's attack takes all steel instead of (W)(W)(L)(C) witch is way easier to power up than Black Kyurem EX.
I've had more issues with the attachment in Rayeels than Deluge decks, but that is really just saying that sometimes it is a problem. The vast majority of the time, it isn't. You have your manual Energy attachment for taking care of the one off-Type requirement, and basic Energy support doesn't care if you're snagging one off-Type Energy or not. What really does matter is that Black Kyurem-EX (PLS) could OHKO anything in the metagame at the time, save for those with a protective effect or boosted HP. This was without using any additional buffs. Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX needs a little help for the biggest targets, doesn't it?
Meteor Tempest hits just about anything with 220. Gardy gets smoked. Buzzwole needs a FFB to survive and they don't play that. Wishiwashi isn't fat enough. 220 is enough in a format where 210 is the number you generally wanna hit.
None of what you said disproves what I said; I was indeed concerned about fringe cases... because "Black Ballista" on Black Kyurem-EX (PLS) also took out all commonly played Pokémon in one shot, at least during its time as a preeminent attacker. @biffthepotato focused on the difficulty caused by Black Kyurem-EX needing an [L] Energy, which is why I first pointed out that it really wasn't a big burden; a small one, sure, but not a big one. I moved onto the damage output relative to max HP scores because that is honestly about as much of a problem as that lone [L] Energy requirement. As in, both are almost non-issues.
Blastoise (BCR) rose to prominence even though Pokémon Catcher didn't require a coin flip back then and first turn attacks were a thing... however, even with tricks like Archie's Ace in the Hole it isn't exactly a strong competitor in Expanded. It also had given up on Black Kyurem-EX (PLS). Magnezone (BKT) never managed to prove itself in competitive play, so I'm not hopeful for the [M] version. Could I be wrong? Absolutely.
Don't forget the standard format is much slower and decks that attack fast don't exactly hit the hardest it's easy to look at bkt magnezone and the current expanded and think metal magnezone won't do well but there actually In vastly different leaugeleaugess do to the fact that metal has energy recovery support and DM necrozma hits considerably harder than what's avaible for lighting types and even water types.
I'm not forgetting that the current pacing of the Standard format isn't as fast (I am not calling it slower XP) and I'm not worried about casual play.
Edit: Just to be clear, you know that this is separate from the discussion about Metal decks falling flat on their face, right? I think Black Kyurem-EX (PLS) just had more going for it, which includes that the information infrastructure for the game wasn't quite up to modern levels at that time. It was getting close, but it seems like around XY that really took off. Even if Metal Decks end up owning the metagame, Black Kyurem-EX looks like it was in a better place (back then)... after all, it did dominate that metagame for a while and did so in spite of it being a faster format.
Edit: Just to be clear, you know that this is separate from the discussion about Metal decks falling flat on their face, right? I think Black Kyurem-EX (PLS) just had more going for it, which includes that the information infrastructure for the game wasn't quite up to modern levels at that time. It was getting close, but it seems like around XY that really took off. Even if Metal Decks end up owning the metagame, Black Kyurem-EX looks like it was in a better place (back then)... after all, it did dominate that metagame for a while and did so in spite of it being a faster format.
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I tested out Dialga GX in Dusk Mane/Magnazone with my group, we only got a few games in though (we drink a little bit too much). Its first attack does smooth out the clunkiness a little bit, but I'm not sure if it is enough to really push the deck. Not the that cards are available on PTCGO I'm going to put Mahone's list together with my Dialga GX modification and see how it does on ladder to gather some more data. (Not sure if I am willing to spend 20 Guardians Rising packs on it right now though)
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I tested it a little to and it's not that bad but, it can either be really good and supper OP or it can really clunk up your deck. (Tested with Metagross GX)
I've been testing Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX/Magnezone and out of the 10 or so games I've played with it I've only lost twice. I've had only one game where I bricked opening hand, otherwise I've been able to get set up every game. It runs smoother than people think. I'm currently playing two different builds, one similar to Mahone's list (with a few changes) and one that I came up with. I was skeptical of Dialga-GX at first but after playing with it I think it deserves a spot. The deck really only struggles against Garbotoxin (which I played against once and was still able to overcome the ability lock) and one-prize attacker decks (stuff like Garchomp/Lucario and Empoleon). It has an even matchup with Buzzwole (played multiple games against it), and can go toe-to-toe with Zoroark variants. Also has an even matchup with Tapu Bulu from my games. I haven't went against Volcanion yet but I imagine that matchup is rough. Overall I think it's a strong deck and if you get comfortable with it I think you can totally take it to a tournament and perform well.
Yeah, I am kind of starting to come around on it too. I have only lost 2 games with it out of 12 on PTCGO. I even beat Volc with it after a bit of a struggle. I still want to test it more, but so far I like it.
I've been playing Dusk Mane/Magnezone as well and I haven't lost once out of 10 games. If you run the right list, it is an extremely consistent and powerful deck and it has all the right tools available to it. Here's my list:
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 17
* 1 Dialga-GX UPR 100
* 3 Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX UPR 90
* 3 Magnemite UPR 81
* 1 Solgaleo {*} UPR 89
* 3 Magnezone UPR 83
* 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 2 Remoraid BKT 31
* 2 Octillery BKT 33
##Trainer Cards - 33
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 4 Rare Candy DEX 100
* 4 Mt. Coronet UPR 130
* 1 Professor's Letter BKT 146
* 3 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 4 Ultra Ball FLF 99
* 3 Brigette BKT 134
* 2 Cynthia UPR 119
* 1 Skyla BKT 148
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 2 N FCO 105
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
##Energy - 10
* 10 Metal Energy Energy 8
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 17
* 1 Dialga-GX UPR 100
* 3 Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX UPR 90
* 3 Magnemite UPR 81
* 1 Solgaleo {*} UPR 89
* 3 Magnezone UPR 83
* 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 2 Remoraid BKT 31
* 2 Octillery BKT 33
##Trainer Cards - 33
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 4 Rare Candy DEX 100
* 4 Mt. Coronet UPR 130
* 1 Professor's Letter BKT 146
* 3 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 4 Ultra Ball FLF 99
* 3 Brigette BKT 134
* 2 Cynthia UPR 119
* 1 Skyla BKT 148
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 2 N FCO 105
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
##Energy - 10
* 10 Metal Energy Energy 8
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******