Discussion Don't be surprised if Metal falls flat

Perfect_Shot

Armored Core>Elden Ring
Member
Now, I love the Metal type. It's great, has cool cards and they hit like a truck. But the one thing that people need to understand is that the main reason the new cards were hyped so much is because Gardevoir GX was the big thing when the new Metal cards were first revealed, and that really is no longer the case, as Zoroark GX rules both of the formats and I really don't see any of the new Metal decks (Newgaleo or not) beating it consistently, let alone other annoyances such as Night March.

As for the variants you have to work with, I'll start with Dusk Mane Necrozma, and the main problem is that the deck loses under both Item Lock and Ability Lock. The deck is reliant on either setting up Magnezone or the upcoming Solgaleo GX, both of which require Rare Candy to access quickly, whereas Magnezone is additionally vulernable to Ability Lock. Now, if we look back to a similiar deck, such as Blastoise (pre-Archie) the deck could lose simply from bricking out, and the Magnezone/Dusk Mane variant will have the same struggles, while you also can't expect to fully power up Dusk Mane after using Meteor Tempest every turn since Mt. Coronet only recovers 2 Energy.

As for variants that use the Solgaleo line as the main attacker, you still have the problem with being a Stage 2, while the upcoming Solgaleo GX creates the problem of messing with the build of the deck. How much of each Solgaleo GX do you run? Do you still run the Guardians Rising Solgaleo, which is a superb single prize attacker, or drop it from the list? The new Solgaleo GX can only 2HKO targets, whereas there are several attackers in the metagame that aren't a clunky Stage 2 who can do the same thing (Zoroark, Golisopod, Volcanion, Night March, etc.) and come out on top because they don't need to set up as much as the Metal player does.

As for Solgaleo Prism Star, it really is an amazing card, but the fact you can only run one and that 160 HP isn't a difficult number to take an OHKO on means that any smart opponent will look to knock it out early, which will set the Metal player's gameplan back quite a bit.

Heatran ULP I believe will do the best, as it hits for good numbers and the Energy costs on it's attacks can easily be recovered with either Magnezone/Coronet or Bronzong in combination with Solgaleo Prism but time will tell.

As for the deck's main threats, Zoroark stands out. It is extremely consistent, will likely take easy knockouts while the Metal player sets up, and can use Trickster GX with a Choice Band and copying either Meteor Tempest or Sunsteel Strike to take OHKO's, and in expanded the Zoro player can even use the Foul Play Zoroark to copy those moves without using their GX attack.

I absolutely love the new cards, and the type in general. They could be amazing in a format, but after a good look into how the meta is going currently, I don't see it being this one.
 
I agree that the metal support ULP brought isn't going to be meta relevent most likely...

But I have to point out that none of the major Zoroark decks run darkness energy so will never use Trickster GX.
 
Honestly I agree, Metal is getting a boost with cards like the Solgaleo Prism and Magnezone (along with a few others), but I don't know how well they'll actually do. In comparison, Tapu Bulu GX technically does the same thing but it does a better job (I think). The funny thing is, Metal is getting so much "hype" that everyone is probably going to try and counter it instead of playing Metal in the first place. At least that is what I think will happen, but you never know, maybe Metal will actually be very good anyways.
 
I really want it to work for the Dusk Mane deck, but I am inclined to agree. I have done about 35tests using proxies and a few different lists, and it is just too clunky, I bricked almost half the time. It is possible t beat ability lock with it, but it is an uphill battle the entire time. That being said I plan to test it a lot more but I don't foresee bringing it to cups even. The other metal variants just seem too fragile or slow to compete in the current meta.
 
I really want it to work for the Dusk Mane deck, but I am inclined to agree. I have done about 35tests using proxies and a few different lists, and it is just too clunky, I bricked almost half the time. It is possible t beat ability lock with it, but it is an uphill battle the entire time. That being said I plan to test it a lot more but I don't foresee bringing it to cups even. The other metal variants just seem too fragile or slow to compete in the current meta.

Actually, I wonder if Dialga GX might prove useful in Metal decks. The main move for this reason is Overclock which allows you to draw cards until you have six in hand. In a deck that relies on Magnezone, drawing into cards like Rare Candy can definitely give you a chance to set up. Not to mention the amazing GX attack and weakness to Fairy (which its Metal counterparts can take care of). Maybe you can try playing one or two Dialga GX in your deck to accelerate cards. Just a thought, but it might work.
 
Agreed. We got a lot of metal pokemon and a lot of other cards that have to do something with metal. DM Necrozma / Solgaleo Prism Star look amazing! And Mt. Coronet is still basically get 2 metal energies per turn assuming you play 4 copies like Andrew Mahone does in his first deck profile for DM Necrozma. But after that, Alolan Dugtrio, while full of potential, looks like a very gimmicky set up, ULP Heatran's decent, but I think CRI Registeel is a lot better, and people are not going to tell me they're going to take names with ULP Bastiodon.

Welcome to the wonderful world of hype, where you think every new card is busted in thier own unique way and then 90% of the time they don't see play at all and for good reason.
 
I think when talking about metal support, you have to distinguish whether you are talking about Standard or Expanded because its relevance changes completely based on the two.

Standard will definitely see a lot of play with metal, especially when the new Solgaleo gets released. Heck, I think that Solgaleo will currently benefit a lot once Prism Star Solgaleo becomes legal in standard. I already run a Solgaleo deck as it is and being able to 1 shot almost everything in the meta is super useful.

You won't use cards like Dusk Mane Necrozma because it's just a bad card. You wouldn't run baby solgaleo because its a stage 2 that doesn't hit any relevant numbers and requires a lot of energies attached. I don't see Magnezone working very well with Dusk Mane Necrozma either simply because Dusk Mane Necrozma has 190 HP. Buzzwole/Lycanroc can knock it out pretty easily without any consequences. Unless you're able to get Mt Coronet and a Starmie out, I don't really see how this combo will work too well.

The whole point of the new Solgaleo is that it is going to allow you to accelerate 2 energy to your benched Solgaleo. The fact that it can 2 shot anything is just a plus for the deck considering that after they knock out your new Solgaleo GX, you can bring up your benched Solgaleo to 1HKO anything your opponent has.

I'm going to cut 1 out of my 2 baby Rayquaza for Prism Star Solgaleo and my deck will be way better than it currently is. Item lock isn't a problem at all in standard (sure Luxio just got released, but I don't think its going to see very much play) and ability lock can be stopped with field blowers. I also run Zoroark GX to give me draw power so that I can get to those rare candies when I need them.

I think Solgaleo is going to be pretty relevant in the standard meta, probably not so much in expanded due to item lock. Also, decks like night march are a nightmare since you're only taking 1 prize for most of your knockouts.

Edit: Alolan Dugtrio will be a force to be reckoned with for sure.
 
Ok, I do agree that most of the new metal decks aren’t going to be that good, but you forgot one thing, METAGROSS GX!!!!!!! The reason why I’m saying this is because Dialga GX can really help this be able to set up, and use some shenanigans with Timeless GX. The deck also has a food place in the format being able to beat almost everything except for Zoroark Decidueye and Volc. It has a lot of good matchups being consistent, having a good amount of HP, Decent 2 shot damage, and max potion.

You can hate all you want but Metagross is pretty good.
 
Ok, I do agree that most of the new metal decks aren’t going to be that good, but you forgot one thing, METAGROSS GX!!!!!!! The reason why I’m saying this is because Dialga GX can really help this be able to set up, and use some shenanigans with Timeless GX. The deck also has a food place in the format being able to beat almost everything except for Zoroark Decidueye and Volc. It has a lot of good matchups being consistent, having a good amount of HP, Decent 2 shot damage, and max potion.

You can hate all you want but Metagross is pretty good.

Can you explain how Timeless GX will help Metagross set up better? Diagla requires 3 metal energies and 2 DCE in order to use the GX attack, which I don't think will help your Metagross at all. It's basically 2 free prizes you're giving up to your opponent because it has such low hp. Maybe I'm wrong so if you can enlighten me, I would appreciate it.
 
Can you explain how Timeless GX will help Metagross set up better? Diagla requires 3 metal energies and 2 DCE in order to use the GX attack, which I don't think will help your Metagross at all. It's basically 2 free prizes you're giving up to your opponent because it has such low hp. Maybe I'm wrong so if you can enlighten me, I would appreciate it.
He was talking about clock-up, i think
 
You can use overclock, Duh and the GX can put out extra damage and buy you a turn (by skipping your opponents). I am going to test it in Zoroark Metagross (I’m not crazy it’s good) and will probably replace it with the one alolan vulpix that you usually play.
 
Alolan Dugtrio will be a legit deck. I know a lot of people are treating it like a meme machine, but it WILL be a legit deck. I'll put money on it. It's SO good.
 
Fire Memory.

...

Just saying, Silvally-GX already did its thing once, and its Ability can make it a decent inclusion in a variety of decks. With four Memory series cards, Silvally-GX itself can Type-match a decent swatch of the card pool, even after shifting to metagame relevant cards. The new Magearna may even help (not sure, just throwing it out there).

So... yeah, I'm mostly agreeing; exploiting Metal Weakness isn't a big deal now, is it? It was, but the format already has shifted and now Gardevoir-GX decks aren't on top. So the only real thing to remember is new cards. No, not necessarily good cards, just that folks often like to take their new stuff for a spin, even at the competitive level. If it doesn't happen right away, sooner or later we'll see at least a small surge in Metal decks (even if they aren't the smart play at the time).
 
Yeah, I probably will give a Heatran build a go just for the sake of trying the new stuff out, though I don't expect too much out it.

I wish the new cards were as good as they are getting hyped as, but, I don't think it's to be.
 
Fire Memory.

...

Just saying, Silvally-GX already did its thing once, and its Ability can make it a decent inclusion in a variety of decks. With four Memory series cards, Silvally-GX itself can Type-match a decent swatch of the card pool, even after shifting to metagame relevant cards. The new Magearna may even help (not sure, just throwing it out there).

I agree Silvally GX is a force to be considered, but two important metal types, Metagross GX & Solgaleo GX at 250 HP, are outside of OHKO range of its Turbo Drive even with Fire Memory attached. Hitting 240 damage means nothing if they max potion it away like their decks are designed to do.
 
I agree Silvally GX is a force to be considered, but two important metal types, Metagross GX & Solgaleo GX at 250 HP, are outside of OHKO range of its Turbo Drive even with Fire Memory attached. Hitting 240 damage means nothing if they max potion it away like their decks are designed to do.

Would volcanion's steam up ability work on a Silvally with Fire Memory attached?
 
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