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[Otaku]

-20 isn't effective enough. Resistance should be just as powerful as Weakness so if you can easily lose to weakness, they you should also be able to lose to resistance so -60 for it is big enough to change matchups completely.

Which is what we don't want, or at least I don't. The whole Weakness/Resistance concept worked for the original Game Boy games, when we didn't have as many Pokémon and the all-or-nothing Type "packages" fleshed out Pokémon. Now? I'm pretty sick of it. ^^' There are way too many Types for the janken style of gameplay to feel remotely balanced. Honestly, I'm not sure if ever really worked properly.

I'd abandon it entirely, but I doubt that is an option. Resistance isn't as effective as Weakness because offense includes an aspect of defense (KO them before they can KO you XP). I'd adjust the numbers for Resistance but I have the feeling that it will be best to keep it perfectly symmetrical. So +20/-20 still makes a difference in edge cases, but not much else. Sounds like a decent compromise to me.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Which is what we don't want, or at least I don't. The whole Weakness/Resistance concept worked for the original Game Boy games, when we didn't have as many Pokémon and the all-or-nothing Type "packages" fleshed out Pokémon. Now? I'm pretty sick of it. ^^' There are way too many Types for the janken style of gameplay to feel remotely balanced. Honestly, I'm not sure if ever really worked properly.

I'd abandon it entirely, but I doubt that is an option. Resistance isn't as effective as Weakness because offense includes an aspect of defense (KO them before they can KO you XP). I'd adjust the numbers for Resistance but I have the feeling that it will be best to keep it perfectly symmetrical. So +20/-20 still makes a difference in edge cases, but not much else. Sounds like a decent compromise to me.

I can agree with that but with the existence of nuke level GX attacks and the fact that Strong Energy still exist and Choice band is coming to the game. With all of these things, Resistance could be a bit bigger to offset the huge amounts of "extra" damage you can do or at least make cards that can heal more or reduce damage.

 

[PMJ]

-20 isn't effective enough. Resistance should be just as powerful as Weakness so if you can easily lose to weakness, they you should also be able to lose to resistance so -60 for it is big enough to change matchups completely.

I can agree with that but with the existence of nuke level GX attacks and the fact that Strong Energy still exist and Choice band is coming to the game. With all of these things, Resistance could be a bit bigger to offset the huge amounts of "extra" damage you can do or at least make cards that can heal more or reduce damage.

Your thinking is backwards. Weakness is much more debilitating than Resistance, but the answer isn't to make Resistance impossible to break through; just change the Weakness modifier to an additive one instead of a multiplicative one. Can you imagine how awful Resistance would be if the modifier was ÷2 instead of -20 (ignore the issue of rounding)?

GX attacks are supposed to be nuke level attacks. You get one a game. They should be balanced so as to all but guarantee a KO.

Choice Band is going to be the tool of choice for a lot of Pokemon, but it's not going to invalidate every tool out there. Even if it does, we're getting Item-based Tool removal back in format. Windstorm2 or whatever it is isn't going to be played solely for Choice Band; FFB and Float Stone are just two tools that are going to be played post-Band, not to mention any other cool tools we get in the future.

Also, no one uses Fighting decks. Groudon needs Tropical Beach to function, Zygarde is dead, Machamp-EX is just a meme, and Passimian doesn't even use Strong Energy. The card sees almost zero use and it only works for one type of Pokemon (out of what, eleven?). It's not worth serious consideration in terms of game balance.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Your thinking is backwards. Weakness is much more debilitating than Resistance, but the answer isn't to make Resistance impossible to break through; just change the Weakness modifier to an additive one instead of a multiplicative one. Can you imagine how awful Resistance would be if the modifier was ÷2 instead of -20 (ignore the issue of rounding)?

GX attacks are supposed to be nuke level attacks. You get one a game. They should be balanced so as to all but guarantee a KO.

Choice Band is going to be the tool of choice for a lot of Pokemon, but it's not going to invalidate every tool out there. Even if it does, we're getting Item-based Tool removal back in format. Windstorm2 or whatever it is isn't going to be played solely for Choice Band; FFB and Float Stone are just two tools that are going to be played post-Band, not to mention any other cool tools we get in the future.

Also, no one uses Fighting decks. Groudon needs Tropical Beach to function, Zygarde is dead, Machamp-EX is just a meme, and Passimian doesn't even use Strong Energy. The card sees almost zero use and it only works for one type of Pokemon (out of what, eleven?). It's not worth serious consideration in terms of game balance.

I would be fine with Weakness going back to +20 but if they insist on leaving it the way it is, then Resistance should be just as powerful and of course the only I didn't suggest Resistance be ÷2 is because of the rounding. As for decks, I don't really like saying the word dead for them and fighting decks are still strong and Fighting Energy is to thanks for that. Steaming Mad is scary and not a GX attack.

 

[PMJ]

I would be fine with Weakness going back to +20 but if they insist on leaving it the way it is, then Resistance should be just as powerful and of course the only I didn't suggest Resistance be ÷2 is because of the rounding. As for decks, I don't really like saying the word dead for them and fighting decks are still strong and Fighting Energy is to thanks for that. Steaming Mad is scary and not a GX attack.

Dead is a good adjective because that's a good way to describe decks that used to get played but aren't anymore.

Fighting decks are not strong. If they were, they'd be played. What does it say that if someone wants to build a Fighting deck in Standard that their first choice is probably going to be Passimian? Zygarde and Regirock are both weak to Grass, which makes the deck dead. Decidueye is arguably the bdif. Who's going to play a deck that takes a rock-hard loss to it? No one.

Steaming Mad is awful. The only reason Mad Bull GX is so good is because it can be used with one attachment and Tauros has two great moves to fall back on that can also be used with one attachment. You can use Heavy Boots or Chaos Tower to stop Steaming Mad's confusion but you still have to either take a strong enough hit so that Steaming Mad becomes worth it, or find a way to attach two colored and a colorless Energy to swing for a whopping 80 damage (160 if you're memeing with Ariados). You can't even OHKO GX pokes with it without stacking on at least two Strongs. Wow, real scary.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Dead is a good adjective because that's a good way to describe decks that used to get played but aren't anymore.

Fighting decks are not strong. If they were, they'd be played. What does it say that if someone wants to build a Fighting deck in Standard that their first choice is probably going to be Passimian? Zygarde and Regirock are both weak to Grass, which makes the deck dead. Decidueye is arguably the bdif. Who's going to play a deck that takes a rock-hard loss to it? No one.

Steaming Mad is awful. The only reason Mad Bull GX is so good is because it can be used with one attachment and Tauros has two great moves to fall back on that can also be used with one attachment. You can use Heavy Boots or Chaos Tower to stop Steaming Mad's confusion but you still have to either take a strong enough hit so that Steaming Mad becomes worth it, or find a way to attach two colored and a colorless Energy to swing for a whopping 80 damage (160 if you're memeing with Ariados). You can't even OHKO GX pokes with it without stacking on at least two Strongs. Wow, real scary.

All I'm saying is I keep all my options open so I don't underestimate a deck because they aren't being played. Just because no one uses Mewtwo-EX anymore doesn't mean it isn't strong. For me, all I see is "this attack does 20 damage for each damage counter on it" and that is something to be scared of if you can't OHKO which turns it into a Mad Bull GX for each Machamp-EX. Anything with an effect like that needs to be OHKO'd.

I like to be scared of each deck. It helps me play right.

 

[Latte1504]

I like to be scared of each deck. It helps me play right.

Play Yveltal in expanded.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Play Yveltal in expanded.

Not a bad idea. Dark is still really good.

 

[PMJ]

All I'm saying is I keep all my options open so I don't underestimate a deck because they aren't being played. Just because no one uses Mewtwo-EX anymore doesn't mean it isn't strong. For me, all I see is "this attack does 20 damage for each damage counter on it" and that is something to be scared of if you can't OHKO which turns it into a Mad Bull GX for each Machamp-EX. Anything with an effect like that needs to be OHKO'd.

I like to be scared of each deck. It helps me play right.

No one plays Mewtwo? Are you kidding? Mewtwo has made top 32 or better in almost every Standard Regionals this season. Unlike Memechamp-EX, Mewtwo is actually a good deck that is worth testing against. How many Machamp decks made top 32? Zero. Zygarde has plenty of T32 finishes, but has been completely absent from the top tables since Decidueye and Lurantis reared their ugly heads. Wonder why that is?

I already explained why Mad Bull GX and Steaming Mad aren't the same thing, despite having similar effects.

You're wasting your time by testing against fringe decks that only people at the bottom tables are going to play.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

No one plays Mewtwo? Are you kidding? Mewtwo has made top 32 or better in almost every Standard Regionals this season. Unlike Memechamp-EX, Mewtwo is actually a good deck that is worth testing against. How many Machamp decks made top 32? Zero. Zygarde has plenty of T32 finishes, but has been completely absent from the top tables since Decidueye and Lurantis reared their ugly heads. Wonder why that is?

I already explained why Mad Bull GX and Steaming Mad aren't the same thing, despite having similar effects.

You're wasting your time by testing against fringe decks that only people at the bottom tables are going to play.

My bad, I meant the Mewtwo-EX from Next Destinies. My fault for not saying that. I'm the type of player who likes to test against these "fringe" decks because these are the kind of decks I lose to when I'm not ready for them so I make less misplays when I actually come across one in a tournament. I do agree you wont see them past round 3 or something but I also believe the same people said the same thing about Mega Audino-EX, but it won worlds.

Maybe you see it as a since of pride or something to not test against these decks but I have no shame in testing against something like Machamp-EX because whether or not you think so, Steaming Mad is a powerful attack and when backed by Strong Energy, its something you can't take lightly. Sure its not the same thing as Mad Bull but it's just as powerful and can be used turn after turn. It's not something you want to trade against.

I don't want to make this about Machamp or some other card you don't think is worth the time of day but I like to be ready for these "fringe" decks so I don't lose as bad. Maybe its because I also play a "fringe" deck. Meta doesn't worry me, bad decks do.

 

[PMJ]

My bad, I meant the Mewtwo-EX from Next Destinies. My fault for not saying that. I'm the type of player who likes to test against these "fringe" decks because these are the kind of decks I lose to when I'm not ready for them so I make less misplays when I actually come across one in a tournament. I do agree you wont see them past round 3 or something but I also believe the same people said the same thing about Mega Audino-EX, but it won worlds.

Maybe you see it as a since of pride or something to not test against these decks but I have no shame in testing against something like Machamp-EX because whether or not you think so, Steaming Mad is a powerful attack and when backed by Strong Energy, its something you can't take lightly. Sure its not the same thing as Mad Bull but it's just as powerful and can be used turn after turn. It's not something you want to trade against.

I don't want to make this about Machamp or some other card you don't think is worth the time of day but I like to be ready for these "fringe" decks so I don't lose as bad. Maybe its because I also play a "fringe" deck. Meta doesn't worry me, bad decks do.

Mewtwo is still used in Expanded. It's not as prevalent as it once was but it is still very much used.

Audino was a meta call. Night March was the deck to beat and Mega Audino did it spectacularly. It faded into obscurity as soon as the format changed because it was a dead deck. Are you going to test against Audino just because it won Worlds? Pride has nothing to do with it. You only have so much time to test. You should not devote a ton of testing against decks you have a realistic chance to never see over the course of a tournament. After you win a couple matches, you're not going to run into garbage decks.

You seem to think that Steaming Mad is going to be an option every turn. If you can't return the KO after getting KOed by Steaming Mad, then it's your deck that's the problem.

Dragon Rayquaza is a good example of a meme deck that isn't worth your time testing against. I've beaten plenty of top decks with it, but who cares? Are you really going to tech against a deck that you will see maybe one in a hundred matches? There's no point. Yeah you might take a loss to Machamp, but good thing no one plays Machamp then. If you are at a Regionals and you get paired up with the one player in 600+ who is using Machamp and you lose to it, that doesn't mean you should have teched in that Machamp tech, it just means you got horribly unlucky.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Mewtwo is still used in Expanded. It's not as prevalent as it once was but it is still very much used.

Audino was a meta call. Night March was the deck to beat and Mega Audino did it spectacularly. It faded into obscurity as soon as the format changed because it was a dead deck. Are you going to test against Audino just because it won Worlds? Pride has nothing to do with it. You only have so much time to test. You should not devote a ton of testing against decks you have a realistic chance to never see over the course of a tournament. After you win a couple matches, you're not going to run into garbage decks.

You seem to think that Steaming Mad is going to be an option every turn. If you can't return the KO after getting KOed by Steaming Mad, then it's your deck that's the problem.

Dragon Rayquaza is a good example of a meme deck that isn't worth your time testing against. I've beaten plenty of top decks with it, but who cares? Are you really going to tech against a deck that you will see maybe one in a hundred matches? There's no point. Yeah you might take a loss to Machamp, but good thing no one plays Machamp then. If you are at a Regionals and you get paired up with the one player in 600+ who is using Machamp and you lose to it, that doesn't mean you should have teched in that Machamp tech, it just means you got horribly unlucky.

Your last line says it perfectly, lol. I'm a very unlucky player.