Finished Mafia XLVIII: Motfia

[Draskk]

So then the only point left on me that we don't share is the one where I'm fabricating scum-tells on you, which is false. You said I needed to scum hunt in my defense, and when I was asked my thoughts I gave them on a few other players, and made no direct response to why I said I couldn't do it properly. That's why I think you were ignoring the point, which was a completely valid defense.

Next there's tunneling. Look what I got out of that? I started from you disregarding "a good point" and now I've tacked multiple scum-tells on you. I've been scum-hunting in some shape or form this entire time. The thoughts on others after asked proves it wasn't hard tunneling either. I don't know who said it, but they were completely right about me developing my read through tunneling.

Then there's hypocrisy, which I have no defense for and will admit to. But that's also not always scummy (though yes, in most cases it is). It is for you in your case because it was being used to ignore my valid defensive points (and continue to push me for said points even though they're completely false). Even so, you can't build a case based on solely hypocritical instances (unless en masse, which they really aren't for either of us).

The only significant reason I should have any votes for me is the lack of justification in finding a reason to vote, and I've found multiple reasons to keep my vote where it is through tunneling, while not even really changing my original line of thinking. Gekki wasn't even listing this as a reason and so his vote is invalid. On the contrary, NP (who isn't even voting me) is using this point against me can because this is actually something very scum-like before being explained.

Mariano's a scum read. I also answered my reads with my quick edits to Gekki's read list, where I agree on most of those points. As always, you're neutral. Hard to read you otherwise because you're always so enigmatic.

Um... what?

Um, what??? Stop. Sooo much is wrong with this:

- Hard bandwagoning.
- Massive backpedal.
- Joking despite no longer in RVS.

And I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt. :U

And I've clarified how/why this is false.

And you're reading BB as town, and because of that for you this is pointless.

I believe BB actually confirmed that "the point" and my interpretation of said point was correct.

Don't put words in my mouth, I said I was reading him neutrally.

This changes what? It's still super vague, and it's still a bad point.

 

[Draskk]

Don't put words in my mouth, I said I was reading him neutrally.

This changes what? It's still super vague, and it's still a bad point.

Aaand I forgot to fix the quote. This is what it should be:

And you're reading bb as town, and because of that for you this is pointless.

I believe BB actually confirmed that "the point" and my interpretation of said point was correct.

 

[Draskk]

I am wary of multiple people. I'm wary of Gekki due to his generally accusatory and assumptive nature in this game. I'm wary of anyone who has been particularly snappy about being accused of anything. I understand that there's a level of "Hey, why're you suspecting me?" when being chosen, but taking it too far feels suspicious. Aggressively defending a point or vote, especially if it involves saying that someone is bandwagoning, feels like an attempt to draw attention to or away from a specific area.

I'm aggressively defending my points because I firmly believe them. We need to be accusatory to get anywhere, and when have I been assumptive? And that last sentence honestly makes no sense to me. Why is drawing attention to or away from something bad?

 

[bbninjas]

Look, this is a long post and I'm really not expecting you (Gekki) to respond to everything, if it all. I've given direct post evidence for everything here, and there's not exactly stuff you can actually defend*. This is actually a post for everyone else, compiling all the significant scummy stuff on Gekki in one spot.

*Then what's the point of defending, bbn? Well, defenses are for players to identify any weak points - logical inconsistencies, misinterpretations, fallacies, etc. If the point is not weak, and clear is day, then it's nearly impossible to defend against it. You should, alternatively, be giving reasons for your innocence..

Give me a list of points I haven't debunked and I'll debunk them.

RE: Your supposed "debunking"
Here's the problem: you've already tried debunking the points on you - in fact, you very actively respond to any suspicions cast on you whatsoever. Your efforts boil down to "that's weak/not scummy/crap/wrong (generally emphatic statements without any actual reasons to justify), "but stills" and "I play scummy". This response to Lorde is a great example of this "debunking", defenses being limited to "This point is crap" and "This isn't true" (where in fact, the point were justified by Lorde). In fact, Gekki's recent responses to Lorde are increasingly consistent with this behaviour.

Gekki's response to TE's read on him was also "his points are trash".

As I said earlier, I think this is a waste of time - a distraction and rather unnecessary, and I doubt it will actually result in anything new. Whelp, here we go anyway:

Reasons for you being scummy (but not necessarily mafia):

Inconsistencies (these are the major ones):
-- case 1: stating Discord mafia and Forum mafia are similar where, according to NP, you assert the opposite elsewhere. Never commented on this in your response to NP.
-- case 2: You say something to the extent of "I'd like to see a case on bb", and here say you never scumread me.
-- Mariano makes a good point about you expecting Lorde to defend and scumhunt.

Hypocritical (also the major ones):
-- case 1: it's not early Day 1 and you are still being overly offensive
-- case 2: you bandwagoned off a weak point on TE, which is sheeping
-- case 3: As later pointed out, your ISO points on Lorde easily apply to you. Specifically, you say that Lorde is too defensive of TE, yet you get rather defensive of NP here. When I call you out for this, you say it's not defending - your'e just posting your opinions.
-- case 4: You accuse Lorde of tunneling when you are doing this yourself. Your defense when Lorde points this out? "I have reasons to tunnel" (i.e. "I am exempt") and "your case on me is weak/illegitimate" (since when can you say when a case is illegitimate?). Hypocritical tunnel-related logic is reinstated here and here.

Extra defensive
- when being pressured about the TE vote, as NP pointed out here. You fail to respond to this in your next post. This is shown throughout the game by Gekki responding to nearly every post that would dare suggest him not being inno. Then gets jumpy when put into a tie with Lorde around here (despite the day ending in some 20 or so hours still).

Overly aggressive (and OMGUS)
- on TE, on Lorde, linked to the tunneling. on Defense: you play aggressive normally (and got lynched for it) - no indication that you're working to change that. Anyone notice the people Gekki is aggressive towards are always those who suggested he is scummy (and did so first)? Your defense to this OMGUS idea was "no, this isn't OMGUS".

Sheeping
- Related to the above and the Tunnel Vision below, Gekki tends to focus on and vote people (i.e. TE, Lorde) only after other people cast suspicion on them. More here. Unlike what Gekki says; adding points on people (especially under tunnel vision) does not mean someone is not sheeping. Gekki's defense is to say this is false; "adding points on people does mean you're not sheeping".

Tunnel Vision
-- RE: Lorde; e.g. when responding to Lorde's defense of the ISO. Your response to this consisted of a few "okay, but..." (a common indication of tunneling) and a couple of "no, you are wrong, that is scummy". Further posts show you disregarding Lorde's defenses and points as "crap", "false" and "illegitimate" without really any reason (see section Hypocritical, case 4). If I haven't convinced you yet, Gekki initially believed my analysis of Lorde's vote reason had "massive holes" (when that was completely false), more tunneling behaviour. He then disregards the fact that Lorde and I buddying is unrealistic because "WIFOM".
-- RE: TE; it took quite of bit of explaining/defense before Gekki actually let go of his initial vote on TE. Recently, seriously considering voting TE for his "weird"/not-optimal actions despite TE being new. Defense: "this is not worth talking about" (avoiding behaviour).

 

[Lorde]

I'm sorry, I should be doing HW, but this is so f***ing ridiculous I'm replying now.

Although neither sheepy nor mentality are the words I'd use to describe this, her lack of being able to justify her vote rings a lot of alarm bells for me. This is really what's pinging me badly from Lorde.

No Gekki, I'm not wrong. You didn't come up with this point. NP did, and I was correct. Stop lying, like you did here:

I've had that as a main reason on you like, forever. And it was me that came up with the point in the first place, iirc. If you didn't know that, you are just flat-out ignoring posts.

Not once was it included in points against me, and you didn't create it like you said. Stop lying to me and everyone else here, this is legitimately scummy. Now you're defending your wrong points on me by fabricating and twisting what actually happened. Not only are you claiming what's not yours, trying to actually proves you are sheeping. Two more things to add to my list.

As to the second, I gave thoughts on others as well, but we haven't moved our votes. Therefore, we're both tunneling. And I've debunked literally all the points you've made on me (or will have by the time I finish this response.)

Why do you keep insisting we're both tunneling, this is so obvious at this point you don't need to keep enforcing it.

As to the third, once again, you've ignored my responses to your points. They were not hypocritical, and you will find them if you read the thread.

Once again, continuing this lie. Stop.

So list of valid points on Gekki at this point:
- Hard tunneling.
- BS and/or hypocritical logic.
- Straight up ignorance of valid points and defenses I'm making.
- Sheeping, then lying about it, going so far to lie about who came up with what.
- ^ This means he's twisting what actually happened and that's way scummy.

 

[bbninjas]

These last two pages have been highly repetitive, and his why I'm saying that this Gekki vs Lorde thing is unhelpful. It's becoming detrimental and out of hand, and needs to be toned down. Plus, I guarantee you that most players will not be reading those posts properly anyway.

 

[Draskk]

I'm sorry, I should be doing HW, but this is so f***ing ridiculous I'm replying now.

No Gekki, I'm not wrong. You didn't come up with this point. NP did, and I was correct. Stop lying, like you did here:

Not once was it included in points against me, and you didn't create it like you said. Stop lying to me and everyone else here, this is legitimately scummy. Now you're defending your wrong points on me by fabricating and twisting what actually happened. Not only are you claiming what's not yours, trying to actually proves you are sheeping. Two more things to add to my list.

Why do you keep insisting we're both tunneling, this is so obvious at this point you don't need to keep enforcing it.

Once again, continuing this lie. Stop.

So list of valid points on Gekki at this point:
- Hard tunneling.
- BS and/or hypocritical logic.
- Straight up ignorance of valid points and defenses I'm making.
- Sheeping, then lying about it, going so far to lie about who came up with what.
- ^ This means he's twisting what actually happened and that's way scummy.

I will actually compile examples of these things in the morning, since you apparently do not want to find them yourself and will just try to scumread me for them if I don't. Rught now, I have to sleep.

 

[bbninjas]

Can I just point out, Gekki, that I went back and read all the posts that you made to compile that list up there, and I'm pretty sure that Lorde is factually correct, and you are not.

 

[Draskk]

Can I just point out, Gekki, that I went back and read all the posts that you made to compile that list up there, and I'm pretty sure that Lorde is factually correct, and you are not.

Good for you. :U

 

[JadeGemTM]

Spoiler: ISO on TE

Okay I understand that he is new and what not, but I am reading him scummy. Does he remind the rest of you of anyone? Cough Nick cough

Ok I just got here could someone inform me on what happened before I got here?

Nothing of note here, except that he could have easily read back 3 or so pages himself.

Ok just read it conclusion: nothing happened
Right now we have no information (or I missed something) so we are kinda blind

Eh, nothing here either.

Ok then everyone say your roles right now character and all

What. This is strange, the way it is worded for some reason really pings me, though I'm not sure why. However, I explained how this happens quite often in IRL Mafia, which is his specialty.

Ignored

Ignores.

Sure
I have some experience with mafia

lol very descriptive ty.

Mostly irl

Still not a full response.

##VOTE@TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK

I understand he was trying to pressure Nick on here, but he didn't actually give a reason on this post.

What do you mean I’m acting weird
I could say that YOURE acting weird
##UNVOTE
##VOTE@bbninjas

This is stupid.

1: that was a joke
2: also a joke
3: don’t understand what you mean by OMGUS

Joke joke joke. He he he

Also
##UNVOTE

@GekkisaiDaiNi
I didn’t just “drop it and leave” I have things to do i.e school, doing things with friends also my phone died and so did my computers connection to the internet so a combination of social situations and bad luck was what made me leave for the extended period of time that I did

Fair enough.

You missed a vote for me

Thanks for pointing that out ^w^

@PMJ
It was a joke your count was spot on sorry if it caused any confusion

WUT. Great. Please stop with the jokes.

Regarding what people have said about it being odd that I didn’t defend myself
If you look back I explain that I had other things to do plus some bad timing with battery life and internet and when I got back I saw that I had already been defended so yeah

Fair.

@NinjaPenguin
I’m not that good at scumreading unless it’s from something I set up like a trick where certain roles will act differently unfortunately they all only work in a small group about 5 people
So this is probably really bad but...
Mariano(?): he seemed pretty hasty to question my lack of response

Interesting, but I don't see it. I do read this as him trying though.

But isn’t that what this game is all about? Switching focus from one person of interest to another based on small slip ups and giveaways?

Another question here. Decent newbie question I think.

And then there was silence...

lol very helpful thanks.

And then there was a very serious post taking my seriously unserious post seriously

Or you could just stop and get serious and stop posting unhelpful things.

Also I still don’t feel like there is enough concrete evidence for me to feel fully satisfied with whomever I vote for I know it would probably change but still

When is there ever going to be perfect concrete evidence? If you wanna help the town, read into people's posts more.

Not really sure what to think I do agree that Lorde and NP are acting suspiciously but then again so is just about everyone in this game

@TOTAL_EPICNESS May I ask What do you mean by everyone acting suspicious?

@bbninjas you asked for my thoughts so here they are
I do agree that Lorde and Gekki are both acting equally...”scummily” but NP is also acting pretty aggressive and if what people have been saying about how he plays more passively as scum then I think it’s an indicator he’s town as for YOU if I take into account what everyone is saying about how you’re playing this the exact same way as last time when you were scum I can’t let that slide at all and I don’t think anyone else will either with Lorde it seems a bit different she is playing aggressively and getting a lot of offense towards her but she’s able to defend herself perfectly so I feel she isn’t scum with Gekki well... I’m still not sure what I think on that case

Glade to see some input finally. Lorde and Gekki are acting equally as scummy. Lorde is defending herself perfectly (what does that mean?), so she isn't really scummy. Not sure what I think about Gekki. *Votes Gekki*

@GekkisaiDaiNi
So you want me to vote correct?
##UNVOTE
##VOTE Gekki
I gotchu fam

Go ahead and tie up the vote there why don't ya. I understand that that is not something we have to worry about with the time we have left, but it still pings me.

It was a joke...
##UNVOTE

Oh good. Another joke. This helps us out a lot, thanks man.

I’ve posted my opinions in the past on 2 occasions look back and you’ll find them

Yeah, okay.

TBH after writing this case out it isn't as good as I thought it in my head, so maybe not my biggest scumread right now, but I still find it relevant to share. If I missed any quotes here, it is simply because I was quickly skipping through the thread after reading it to quote all his posts.

Since I've managed to catch up, I'll go ahead and do that.

GekkisaiDaiNi - Originally my biggest town read for D1. Has started leaning a bit more neutral as the day has gone by.
quakingpunch73 - Haven't seen much of him so far, but I think that's not uncommon for day 1. Neutral.
bbninjas - Getting some bad vibes from him, but I'm always getting bad vibes from him. He's always scum in my mind.
Jadethepokemontrainer - Slipping under the radar. I want to see more from him.
Lord o da rings - For previous mentioned reasons, my current top scum read.
GrandPanacea - Showing up and randomly voting TE looked very weird. Is also slipping under the radar. Neutral leaning scum.
The Last Shaymin - No read so far.
NinjaPenguin - I felt you were slipping under the radar at the start of the game, but you're back now, which is good.
TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK - Is he even playing?
Mariano11887 - No read so far.
TOTAL_EPICNESS - No read so far.

I agree with this read list for the most part, though I still will be posting my own. You know, you're doing a pretty good job of slipping under the radar yourself...

BB - Looking above at Simsands read on him. that's p much how I'm feeling as well. He did have a weird case on NP which I didn't buy. Neutral, leaning scum.
Gekki - Not finding the case on him super convincing. Town.
Quaking - He's barely posted anything this whole game, not much of which was useful. Neutral.
Lord - For reasons that have been discussed by ya'll, I'm finding her at the top of my scum reads right now. Scum.
Firo - Hasn't really done enough for me to give an 100% clear read yet, but the more recent posts he has made are looking newbie town to me. Town.
TE - For reasons above. I wouldn't really be surprised to see him and Lorde as a scum team. Scum.
Mariano - His posts seem very genuine and like his town meta from previous games. Town.
NP - tbh I'm having trouble reading NP this game. Neutral.
Simsands - He's brought it a couple helpful posts, but for the most part he's been flying under the radar. Neutral.
Nick - He's just gonna get modkilled.
TLS - Not enough to go on. I may read back on him later.

To be fair, I got my quota done

I'm planning on voting Lorde later, but holding off in prevention of a possible hammer (L-3 right?).

 

[Lorde]

I agree with this read list for the most part, though I still will be posting my own. You know, you're doing a pretty good job of slipping under the radar yourself...

BB - Looking above at Simsands read on him. that's p much how I'm feeling as well. He did have a weird case on NP which I didn't buy. Neutral, leaning scum.
Gekki - Not finding the case on him super convincing. Town.
Quaking - He's barely posted anything this whole game, not much of which was useful. Neutral.
Lord - For reasons that have been discussed by ya'll, I'm finding her at the top of my scum reads right now. Scum.
Firo - Hasn't really done enough for me to give an 100% clear read yet, but the more recent posts he has made are looking newbie town to me. Town.
TE - For reasons above. I wouldn't really be surprised to see him and Lorde as a scum team. Scum.
Mariano - His posts seem very genuine and like his town meta from previous games. Town.
NP - tbh I'm having trouble reading NP this game. Neutral.
Simsands - He's brought it a couple helpful posts, but for the most part he's been flying under the radar. Neutral.
Nick - He's just gonna get modkilled.
TLS - Not enough to go on. I may read back on him later.

You mind explaining exactly what it is about both cases (mine and Gekki's) you like and dislike? Because you've barely been on and I'd love some explanation for your reads.

 

[bbninjas]

@NinjaPenguin Looking back at my vote on you... well, there's not much to say. Like you said, that was an awful reason; you ended up focusing on both, not one or the other. Don't know what was going through my head...

(btw I would probably post more, but I'm a bit exhausted from compiling that long post on Gekki. >.>)

@Jadethepokemontrainer ...I don't understand how TE is scummy from my skim of your ISO. He jokes a lot, does some weird things, so what? New players do that. Also what Lorde said... actual reasons would be great.

 

[JadeGemTM]

I don't understand how TE is scummy from my skim of your ISO. He jokes a lot, does some weird things, so what? New players do that.

TBH after writing this case out it isn't as good as I thought it in my head, so maybe not my biggest scumread right now, but I still find it relevant to share.

I don't find it as I did at first, but I still wanted to share it. I do find his interactions with Lorde strange though.

As for the reasons, those will come, but I'm on the middle of tcgo tourny.

 

[bbninjas]

I never said it was a decent reason to read her and you as scum, but it's the best thing I have inside this chaotic Day 1. Also, you keep defending Lorde right now. Is there anything about her that you don't agree with?

That period where she was set on keeping her vote on Gekki (before Gekki started majorly tunneling Lorde) was a bit weird. The whole Gekki thing was striking me as very similar to last game, which I think Lorde might have acknowledge, but despite that she still left her vote. I also found her earlier psuedo-read list wishy-washy/vague (although I misinterpreted her read on you as neutral), but her recent "official" list is much more coordinated and seems to be consistent, so it's nothing big on her. I don't see any other valid points on her than those, despite all this commotion around her suggesting otherwise.

 

[Lorde]

I really see this as locked up at this point. That lying just seals the deal for me, it is literally impossible to spin that in a townie way. Gekki holds us all to a high standard to remember little details and things he's said, and by simple logic he should be just as - if not more - on top of that than the rest of us should be. Gekki lying about points he's made is in direct contradiction to this, and that is very scummy.

Also, the ISO on TE was needless and it doesn't do any sort of convincing job on bringing any scummy points to the surface, it's all criticism of jokes (not helpful but not directly scummy). He actually reminds me a lot of a less experienced Mirdo, who for the majority of his games in PB mafia was joking. I got on his case a lot, but he often did it as town.

As for the reasons, those will come, but I'm on the middle of tcgo tourny.

Hurry up, please. Don't let this be another hyped up post and for it to never come, that's all too common with you at this point.

Honestly I find the amount of pushback on Gekki's case alarming. I've provided a well put together case with my findings on D1, and there's a lot of pushback given that the case on me is so overblown it's laughable, and Gekki's is accurate, well constructed, and very realistic. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you hadn't read that yet and await your response.

That period where she was set on keeping her vote on Gekki (before Gekki started majorly tunneling Lorde) was a bit weird. The whole Gekki thing was striking me as very similar to last game, which I think Lorde might have acknowledge, but despite that she still left her vote. I also found her earlier psuedo-read list wishy-washy/vague (although I misinterpreted her read on you as neutral), but her recent "official" list is much more coordinated and seems to be consistent, so it's nothing big on her. I don't see any other valid points on her than those, despite all this commotion around her suggesting otherwise.

- Sure, I'll give you that. Of course it was odd because my vote on him was still shaky before he started tunneling me.
- Of course I do, and I think it's completely fair for you to have your reservations. Now that I think about it, Gekki and I have had feuds in every single mafia game we've both been in (Askr, Fairy Tail, now this one).
- The first list was quick because I was outside, far below freezing, and typing hastily before my thumbs froze. I was going to meet a friend, which is why I was gone. I wrote the "official" one in room temperature. <.<

 

[bbninjas]

And finally reads...

Leaning Town
TOTAL_EPICNESS --- is hitting all the newbie tells for me. Is helpful and is trying to scumhunt, which is easier for new town than it is new scum.
NinjaPenguin --- Initially thought was scummier because of that "focus-switch", but, uh, that was just completely wrong, so nevermind that. Is aggressiveness and wide-spread commentary makes me think he's in a lone-wolf mode, as opposed to a mafia-team-mode like he may have been last game.

Neutral
Lord o da rings (town-lean) --- I feel that this case is more scum driven than anything, and I really don't see many valid points on her. There's the parking the vote on Gekki at a period of time, and maybe weird reads; that's it.
The Last Shaymin - Isn't posting very much or contributing very much, making this a hard read. Probably need to do a look at their posts, but I'm a bit over doing ISOs right now. >.>
GrandPanacea - Weird popping in to make jokes and not really contribute, and wanted to with-hold his reads, which is weird. That is probably all attributed to GP being new/busy, though, especially so because this Gekki/lorde thing has been very messy and is certainly hard to follow.
simsands (scum-lean) - I don't like how simsands shows up, suggests Lorde's lynch, and it takes off, yet has been flying under the radar in the sense that people don't attribute the lynch to him.
quakingpunch73 (scum-lean) - Definitely seems to be flying under the radar a bit., which doesn't sit well with me at all. (Did I read him this way last game too? I think I might have...). Needs to post more.
Jadethepokemontrainer (scum-lean) - Flying under the radar, odd lack of reasoning in his recent reads, a bit bandwagony.

Leaning Mafia
Mariano11887 - initial bandwagon onto the Lorde lynch was odd, especially the choice of Lorde over myself (despite saying we're both equally scummy). I also find it strange that their scum read on me is mainly because of my connection to Lorde, because outside of that, it is rather baseless. Eitherway, I'm not picking up those strong town pings like I did last game.
GekkisaiDaiNi - Is very scummy, and I'm increasingly considering the possibility of him being mafia the more he tunnels other people and gets jumpy whenever someone else suggests he could be mafia. Regardless, his tunneling is derailing and detrimental. I will vote him if it ends up being Lorde OR Gekki as the final lynch options.

Needs subbing out:
TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK

 

[bbninjas]

Just rereading my read on TE and would like to clarify "helpful", because clearly jokes is not that. By helpful I mean that if you ask him to give his thoughts, he will generally freely and reliably give his thoughts.

 

[JadeGemTM]

Lorde is playing more aggressively than normal (I believe?). I think there was something about her tunneling on Gekki and keeping her Vote on him for seemingly no reason, or at least points that weren't valid. Was super pressuring on Gekki. Over protective of TE (about that, TE said some stuff about Lorde too, review ISO, that could link them together).

As for Gekki, he's playing very similarly to last game, where he flipped town day 1.

So i'd say bb (review reads list) or Lorde for a D1 lynch. They could both give us good reads on some other players if they flip scum. They would also both be a large loss for the town if they flip town.

Blame possible misspelling on my 4 hours of sleep last night.

 

[Lorde]

Lorde is playing more aggressively than normal (I believe?). I think there was something about her tunneling on Gekki and keeping her Vote on him for seemingly no reason, or at least points that weren't valid. Was super pressuring on Gekki. Over protective of TE (about that, TE said some stuff about Lorde too, review ISO, that could link them together).

I'm rolling, this post is so bad.

- I play aggressively, any shade of aggressiveness as a scumtell on me is immediately ignored by me, because that's how I play. Even if you're aloof, you should know this.
- The "no reason" stretch has since been debunked.
- Gekki and I have both been tunneling each other for like, minimum last 30 hours.
- I've already said I was defending TE from the absolute bulls*** points Gekki was throwing against him. TE reads as neutral for me.

I don't like this post, I really don't like this post. This seems super biased and uninformed, and every reason you list for me being scum has either been proven untrue or is so minor it's not worth a high up scum-read compared to Gekki. He also didn't respond to the Gekki case at all (and specifically ignored the lying), and that's dodgy because I'm pretty sure I asked about both cases, not just the one on me.

My entire read on Jade flipped in this single post. If Gekki flips scum if he's lynched, I'm immediately looking at Jade next.

 

[Lorde]

You mind explaining exactly what it is about both cases (mine and Gekki's) you like and dislike? Because you've barely been on and I'd love some explanation for your reads.

I did lmao, Jade is dodging. Now Gekki has obvious connections, this is all being put into place. I'm not moving my vote at this point.

Jade/Mariano/Gekki scum-team, anyone?