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Alt. Format XY-On Miltank / Crobat

Thanks Mora! That definitely helps a lot. I'm going to try your idea with the 4 Junipers and Dowsing Machine instead of Computer Search, just in case any necessary parts are discarded. I'll also try it with 0 Junipers, but I think you're right about draw being extremely important. I feel like a big part of the game is setting up, but an even bigger part is planning for the worst and being able to recover. I will edit the main list and try that out tonight, and modify it as needed. Thanks again!
 
I like Greninja-EX in this deck too, he's solid as your counter for landorus and if things take a turn for the worse he can attack for 120 base instead of Suicune's 70 for the same energy cost. Good choice!
 
I play a Ballistoise that relies on getting at least one Blastoise on my bench and I can testify: Running 4 Junipers/Sycamores makes things WAY more easy. 4 Skylas also help.
 
I think you're disadvantaging yourself playing Greninja EX. It ruins your prize trade.

I've used a list like this and it plays pretty well. If it's just for league you could proxy the beaches, or play 1-1 Electrode.

4-2-4 Greninja
4 Miltank
1 Suicune
4 N
3 Juniper
3 Skyla
2 Colress

2 Tropical Beach

1 Dowsing Machine
2 Super Rod
2 Professor's Letter
4 Energy Retrieval
3 Ultra Ball
3 Level Ball
3 Rare Candy
3 Silver Bangle
2 Surprise Megaphone

8 Water

The maths works well. With Miltank + Bangle, that's 110, and you need two Shurikens to kill most EXs. You can shove Suicune out to stall while setting up. With the high damage from Miltank (who can do 80 plus 2 shurikens = 140 to kill most non EX) you don't need Superior Energy Retrieval, because 4 (5) Energy retrieval can give you all the energy you need. If you have three Greninja set up, don't be afraid to use one for attacking if you need to. Also, don't bother loading Suicune with energy, just leave it out there until they kill it.
 
The only problem with thaqt is that Beach, Super Rod and Level Ball are rotating out come September.

A friend of mine runs a KingNinja deck and we are struggling with these same problems... Without Level Ball and Super Rod it is hard not to play Kingdra, which slows this deck a lot when there is no Beach...
 
I think Greninja-ex is better in this deck over Suicune for a few reasons:

1. He can attack for 1 energy right away, which sticks to the theme of low cost attacks for this deck. I'd rather stall and attack than stall and not attack.

2. Even though he's an ex which would cost two prizes if KO'd, the idea is to not get him KO'd in the first place. So in theory, you would trade 1 prize for stalling with Suicune and no prizes for stalling with Greninja-ex.

3. If it's gone that downhill that Greninja-ex is active, he can at least hit for 30 while you prepare him to hit for 120. Suicune will take a few turns just to hit for 70.
(While you're stalling with Suicune and not attacking then losing a prize, your opponent has just set up their strategy and is now ahead by a prize.)
 
Pokemon:
  • 4x Froakie
  • 2x Frogadier
  • 4x Greninja XY
  • 4x Miltank FF
  • 1x Greninja EX
  • 1x Jirachi EX
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums:
  • 4x N
  • 2x Colress
  • 2x Skyla
  • 4x Professor Sycamore
  • 4x Ultra Ball
  • 4x Rare Candy
  • 2x Switch
  • 3x Energy Retrieval
  • 1x Computer Search
  • 1x Startling Megaphone
  • 3x Bicycle
  • 3x Silver Bangle
Energy:
  • 11x Water Energy
Strategy:

The main strategy is to have Miltank out front with Greninjas on the bench sniping for 30. Pretty much everything else is to either make Miltank do more damage, or get stuff back from my discard. Greninja EX is for Charizard, Landorus EX, etc. Greninja (stage 2) two shots Pyroar (one-shots if I have two Greninjas).

Also, considering Empoleon in place of Greninja, but I'm not sure if that would hurt my damage output too much. I also want to add Head Ringer(s), but I'm not sure what to remove.

Deck is reasonably fast, but I believe it still could use some work. Does anybody have any advice? I'm still rather new to the format, so I'm sure it's not optimized yet. Thanks for looking!
 
Following are some thoughts for your consideration: You may want to include a 1-2

  • Exeggcute (Propagation). Very helpful when you need discard "fodder."
  • Lysandre. Consider a Seismitoad match-up wherein you will need to gust your opponent's 'Toad from the active position in order to play some of your Items.
  • Muscle Band. These can be used to boost damage output against any opponent Poke, not just EXs.
  • Pokemon Fan Club. This Supporter will help you setup your bench.
  • Professor's Letter. This Item will also help you get needed W energy.
  • Superior Energy Retrieval. Should your opponent manage to heal any of his/her wounded Poke in order to prevent a KO, then you might expend all of your energy without a means of recovering them late game.
  • VS Seeker. This Item will help you recover and reuse discarded Supporters.
Given the above comments, I'd suggest the following changes:


  • -1 Ultra Ball
    -1 Rare Candy. With running a 4-4-4 Greninja line, 3 RCs should be sufficient, IMO.
    -2 Switch. Not that helpful in this deck since your Poke will be either be KOd or has low retreat cost.
    -1 Energy Retrieval
    -2 Bicycle. With 10 card draw Supporters, 1 Bicycle and 2 VS Seekers, your card drawing engine is very "strong," IMO.
    -3 Silver Bangle

    +1 Exeggcute (Propagation)
    +1 Lysandre
    +3 Muscle Band
    +1 Fan Club
    +1 Professor's Letter
    +1 Superior Energy Retrieval
    +2 VS Seeker
I hope you find these comments helpful.
 
I have a similar Deck:

9 Water Energy

4 Miltank
4 Froakie
2 Frogadier
4 Greninja
1 Voltorb
1 Electrode
1 Exeggcute
1 Suicune

3 N
3 Professor Sycamore
2 Colress
2 Skyla
3 Ultra Ball
2 Pokemon Fan Club
3 Rare Candy
2 Evosoda
2 Professor's Letter
3 Superior Energy Retrieval
2 Muscle Band
1 Silver Bangle
1 Lysandre
1 VS Seeker
1 Startling Megaphone
1 Sacred Ash
1 Dowsing Machine

in addition to TuxedoBlack's comments, I also run:
- 1 Dowsing Machine instead of computer search (never regret putting dowsing instead of computer search, in most of my games, I find that in between the 3 ultra ball, 2 Fan club, 2 evosoda, 2 skyla, and 2 letters, I don't really need that extra search at all, in fact, that extra recycle is more than needed)
- 2 Evosodas instead of 1 more rare candy (really helps when you have a Voltorb or an already evolved your froakie into frogadier without any greninja in hand. also 4 rare candies on a 4-2-4 line seems a little bit excessive)
- 2 Professor's Letter instead of 1 (trust me on this, the extra copy helps)
- 2+1 combination of Muscle Band and Silver Bangle (balance between general purpose as well as an extra oomph! for those high HP EXs)
- 2 Pokemon Fan club instead of 1; replaces the 1 other Ultra Ball (used for geting extra copies of those froakies, miltanks, as well as your lone copies of Voltorb and Suicune to ward off those pesky EXs)
- 1 Sacred Ash (where I play, people tend to kill my Greninja lines and Miltanks ASAP so having a way to recycle my pokemons is a must)
 
Pokemon : 8
  • 4 Miltank FF
  • 4 Greninja XY #41
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums : 44
  • 4 Archie's Ace in the Hole
  • 1 Lysandre
  • 3 Roller Skates
  • 4 Trainers' Mail
  • 4 Acro Bike
  • 4 Ultra Ball
  • 4 Battle Compressor
  • 3 VS Seeker
  • 4 Energy Retrieval
  • 1 Sacred Ash
  • 3 Trick Shovel
  • 2 Professor's Letter
  • 4 Muscle Band
  • 2 Red Card
  • 1 Enhanced Hammer
Energy : 8
  • 8 Water Energy
Strategy:

Strategy is to blow through the deck turn one, getting a Greninja out with Archie's, and attack for 80-130 using Miltank and Muscle Band + discarding water energy. Pretty simple strategy, but also kind of a glass cannon. Viable? Suggestions? I'm crazy? All advice welcome! :)

Edit: 3 Red Card because I will most likely mulligan a lot and need this to reset their hand.
 
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Have you tested this yet? I feel like you're going to want some actual Supporters other than just Archie's Ace. You should definitely play Jirachi so that you can search out Archie's Ace since it's so crucial to your set up.
 
Mora said:
Have you tested this yet? I feel like you're going to want some actual Supporters other than just Archie's Ace. You should definitely play Jirachi so that you can search out Archie's Ace since it's so crucial to your set up.
Click to expand...

I would, but isn't Jirachi rotating, assuming XY-on is the format? I also would think Battle Compressor + VS Seeker would be enough, along with all the draw trainers, but maybe up the VS Seeker to 4 would work better. The reason I didn't add other supporters is because I don't want to have to use them and slow myself down a turn, since that's a turn I can't use Archie's. And to answer your first question, I haven't yet tested the deck lol, it's just an idea I came up with and I live in magical Christmas land.
 
Yeah, sorry. I overlooked that this was XY-On. I guess my main concern is without other Supporters, you might get stuck with a hand that you can't thin down to play Archie's Ace.
 
Mora said:
Yeah, sorry. I overlooked that this was XY-On. I guess my main concern is without other Supporters, you might get stuck with a hand that you can't thin down to play Archie's Ace.
Click to expand...

I'm worried about that too, and I wish there was a more reliable way of searching a supporter other than Trainers' Mail. :/ I'm going to test this build out tonight, as it's mostly an untested concept, and see if other supporters are really necessary. What supporter(s) would you suggest other than Archie's? I'm thinking maybe Steven, since he can literally search Archie's and a water energy, which is always useful.
 
Well, Professor Sycamore is never a bad card. But I'd also be interested in some form of shuffle draw as it's a hand refresh if you can't pull off an Archie's Ace. If only N weren't rotating, but that's another story. I'm not saying you have to play 4 of these cards, but I think you'd want them to be there as alternative draw. In fact, playing 4 of each might even by a bad thing as then you have the problem of having too many cards that you can only play one of per turn. While normally, this isn't that big of a deal, it is when your goal is to consistently thin your hand down to one.
 
I am interested in building this deck as well. I have tested both the conventional evolution route and the Archie's route, and I am not totally satisfied with either approach. However, I have found that the evolution strategy is, overall, more consistent in getting Greninja out.
 
I removed the Maintenance and added 3 Roller Skates instead, as Maintenance draws a random card that usually didn't help right away. Roller Skates can either get 3 cards to help, or get rid of a card in hand. I'm also thinking of adding some Dive Balls to fail search, or search Greninja and discard with Ultra Ball.

Mora said:
Well, Professor Sycamore is never a bad card. But I'd also be interested in some form of shuffle draw as it's a hand refresh if you can't pull off an Archie's Ace. If only N weren't rotating, but that's another story. I'm not saying you have to play 4 of these cards, but I think you'd want them to be there as alternative draw. In fact, playing 4 of each might even by a bad thing as then you have the problem of having too many cards that you can only play one of per turn. While normally, this isn't that big of a deal, it is when your goal is to consistently thin your hand down to one.
Click to expand...

I'd think maybe one would be fine...but it's tricky, since if I'm going to run any other supporters at all, I feel like I may just scrap the idea and go the usual Rare Candy route. I'll try adding in 1-2 and see how it works, but it's still as vulnerable to item lock as the Rare Candy version, which is why I dislike it.

Windfish said:
I am interested in building this deck as well. I have tested both the conventional evolution route and the Archie's route, and I am not totally satisfied with either approach. However, I have found that the evolution strategy is, overall, more consistent in getting Greninja out.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with it being more consistent, but it's really vulnerable to item lock. If you go first, then you might eat a Toad lock being unable to Rare Candy. Go second, same issue. Either way, Rare Candy is the weakness. Whereas in this deck, you can get set-up turn one, and in testing it seems more than 50% of the time it happens turn one. My motto is, go big or go home! EDIT: So after thinking about it, the evolution version isn't that subject to trainer lock with Wally and whatnot, so I might test that one out instead. We'll see how this one goes in actual practice. Still a couple months until the format change, so plenty of time to prepare. :)
 
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Wouldn't a Turbo Miltank deck be easier to pull off using the new Giant Plant Forest that comes out in Ancient Origins? Pair Miltank with Beautifly ROS, Sceptile PRC, Vileplume AOR, Shiftry FLF, or basically any stage 2 grass-type of your choosing, then use the stadiums effect to evolve through each of the stages on turn one much like the old Butterfree/Miltank decks used to do. I feel that Archie based decks lose a lot in the upcoming rotation in the form of Jirachi-EX and Exeggcute PLF, thereby making the turn one Archie much more difficult to pull off than it currently is, and therefore the Giant Plant Forest approach might be more consistent.
 
sceptile_boss said:
I think adding a small Crobat line would help and maybe an AZ or two. A 2-2-2 line would be good
Click to expand...
That would make it a lot clunkier, and if I start with Zubat, I might as well scoop. :/ Plus, they don't really contribute to the strategy and I'm going to 2HKO EX/M-EX most of the time and they don't greatly increase my chance at OHKO'ing them, at least not enough to make it worth it.
Zygarde262 said:
Wouldn't a Turbo Miltank deck be easier to pull off using the new Giant Plant Forest that comes out in Ancient Origins? Pair Miltank with Beautifly ROS, Sceptile PRC, Vileplume AOR, Shiftry FLF, or basically any stage 2 grass-type of your choosing, then use the stadiums effect to evolve through each of the stages on turn one much like the old Butterfree/Miltank decks used to do. I feel that Archie based decks lose a lot in the upcoming rotation in the form of Jirachi-EX and Exeggcute PLF, thereby making the turn one Archie much more difficult to pull off than it currently is, and therefore the Giant Plant Forest approach might be more consistent.
Click to expand...
I thought about that too, but the damage output seems rather low. It means I absolutely need a Muscle Band to 2HKO main EX's, and I can forget about doing that to any Mega. It gives them too many chances to AZ or SSU back into their hand. I guess I would just need more than a quick evolution, or maybe I could run Shiftry with some DCE to get some good late game hits going. That actually doesn't seem like too bad of an idea, I may try a list.
 
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