When Will the EX Pokémon Era End?

Numelz Numelz said:
Le sit in the corner laughing at all the players reactions to ex ban while I feed my Vespiquen and Crobat...

Lol this is what I dream every night
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Sorry about the nightmares; after all just banning Pokémon-EX will solve a few problems but likely cause just as many, if not more. Plenty of Pokémon-EX aren't even competitive and before we got them, instead of "evil Pokémon-EX" dominating, it was just regular big Basics. Before them it tended to be Stage 1 Pokémon "Prime" (Prime is a rarity, not a card name or trait). It wasn't long lived but for a brief time a little over 10 years ago, I recall Stage 2 being dominant. =P

Broken cards be broken; I fantasize about the designers suddenly realizing that and fixing it. ;)
 
Otaku said:
Sorry about the nightmares; after all just banning Pokémon-EX will solve a few problems but likely cause just as many, if not more. Plenty of Pokémon-EX aren't even competitive and before we got them, instead of "evil Pokémon-EX" dominating, it was just regular big Basics. Before them it tended to be Stage 1 Pokémon "Prime" (Prime is a rarity, not a card name or trait). It wasn't long lived but for a brief time a little over 10 years ago, I recall Stage 2 being dominant. =P

Broken cards be broken; I fantasize about the designers suddenly realizing that and fixing it. ;)
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Now I feel bad for Toxicroak ex and Magnezone ex
 
My biggest hope is that they find a way to make stage 2 evolutions work as non-support Pokémon and not put into play through Archie/Maxie, if they're so adamant about keeping these stupid EXes around.
 
@thegrovylekid, same. I hope Stage 2s would be more viable. Stage 1 Pokemon are pretty viable in this current format, with Vespiquen, Archeops, and Flareon.

Also, I have a feeling that Pokemon-EX will be dropped by the Sun & Moon base set.
Just a guess.
 
I however suspect that Pokémon EX will not be dropped as long as mega evolution is still around. I have a feeling that mega evolution will not just fade away with the next set of games. Currently we still need:

Mega Pinsir
Mega Medicham
Mega Banette
Mega Garchomp
Mega Abomasnow
Mega Beedrill
Mega Pidgeot
Mega Slowbro
Mega Steelix
Mega Sableye
Mega Sharpedo
Mega Camerupt
Mega Salamence
Mega Latias
Mega Lopunny
Mega Audino

That's sixteen, which could be anywhere from four sets or more without releasing them in special products, which is of course possible. This also assumes that we don't see more instances of Mega Charizard X where we get both types which would prolong the full releases. We still have a long way to go before it's even considered to be released.

Also consider that, aside from the third gen Pokémon ex and the current Pokémon EX (the lower vs. uppercase semantics) there is no difference between the two. Even the BREAK mechanic is just a rehash of the LV. X mechanic. We might just be looking at something that is essentially a Pokémon ex/EX but with a new name.
 
Numelz Numelz said:
Now I feel bad for Toxicroak ex and Magnezone ex
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Don't feel too sorry for Toxicroak-EX; while it isn't and never was a top pick, it was much better for contemporary play than Magnezone-EX. Toxicroak saw some limited, successful use and seemed to settle into its role as a "budget" Pokémon-EX reasonably well. While its attacks aren't good, neither are they particularly bad either. The card has solid attributes* (the same as the original Mewtwo-EX except with a better Retreat Cost), the attacks just aren't overly powerful. They aren't weak, they aren't bad, it is just the threshold for being competitive is now set at approximately "slightly broken" and has been for a while now. Triple Poison essentially gives you three for [CC], with the potential for more if your opponent doesn't rid themselves of the Poison. 80 for [PPC] was closer to regular competitive range at the time, and at best M Kangaskhan-EX was seeing play as far as Pokémon with more than 180 HP, so a Muscle Band put nearly everything into 2HKO territory (OHKO if it was small and/or Psychic Weak). Not the best synergy between the attacks though since Triple Poison doesn't do any damage (so Muscle Band and the like can't buff it). Ignoring Resistance is usually not worth it for "big" attacks because you expect them to be so strong that they punch through it anyway; 20 more damage on Smash Uppercut give the same end result against Resistance but be better off all around, while 90 base damage would be only 10 worse against Resistance but 10 better against everything else... and even with Psychic Resistance (I think) being the current most numerous (though only a dozen or so cards behind Fighting Resistance).

Anyway, Magnezone-EX only has its Type going for it, and that is pretty much restricted to slamming cards like Yveltal-EX hard. It's main issue is that it released right before the set that would really pump up its Weakness and of course because Dual Bullet is far worse than it looks at a glance. 100 damage for three seems okay... until you remember it is specifically [LLL] which requires serious Energy acceleration, to the point that so many other attackers are superior. If it just did two hits of 60, even if it required [LLLL], then it might have use in Magnezone (BKT) decks as Wide Lens would allow Magnezone-EX to OHKO two Shaymin-EX (ROS) at the same time. What a difference 10 damage can make!

*My term for the passive parts of the card; anything other than Abilities, Ancient Traits and attacks
 
I think the problem here is just card design. They need to stop making cards you can't fight back against. This is things like Night March/ other attacks that do discard based damage. Another problem are these X Ball like attacks. They need to stop making them and this new m Mewtwo EX is just completely stupid of a card.

Like Otaku said, broken cards will be broken and right now, there is a broken version of all stage types and as much as I would hate to say it, EX Pokemon need more support just so they can not go down in one hit. They also need to design a way to make stage 2 Pokemon playable without breaking them all together. The stage 2 Pokemon that are played now do well because they are effective again EX Pokemon. I just want them to be good in general but first they need to make the evolving forms better. I'd be fine with a Pidgey that can put into play 4 Pidgeotto or even Pidgeot into play. The thing they need is a swarm factor and very cheap attack cost to makeup for the amount of resources they require.
 
i kinda miss the first generation type of game. it was much more harder to play and u had to think alot more than now to play . i specially liked the trainer's pokemon like erica's or brock's generation. but the Ex are here to stay and i dont see them changing that
 
They should change the rules so that you are allowed only one EX pokemon in your deck.
 
HA559 said:
They should change the rules so that you are allowed only one EX pokemon in your deck.
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What good would that do though, that pretty much puts us back to the HGSS style TCG, and I don't think that many of us really want that. And then every mega would be impossible to play.
 
HA559 said:
They should change the rules so that you are allowed only one EX pokemon in your deck.
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Numelz Numelz said:
What good would that do though, that pretty much puts us back to the HGSS style TCG, and I don't think that many of us really want that. And then every mega would be impossible to play.
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@Numelz Numelz is correct, that does us no good.

1) "Broken" Pokémon exist in almost all (possibly all) Stages and mechanics.
2) Many Pokémon-EX are either well balanced or actually under powered!
3) If the mechanic was broken, then restricting them to one card will only repeat the folly of the Ace Spec mechanic.

Having a single "powah card!" just makes the game about luck. Either the card is over powered and needs to be gone entirely, or it is adequate powered and something else is amiss. We have seen this with Ace Spec cards, how the best of them still make plays that feel rather unfair and more important, decks pack enough search so that they aren't hard to get when you need them and especially now recycling cards to reuse them. I would not be surprised if certain Ace Spec cards that are still being used now, were that particular card declared a regular Trainer (losing its Ace Spec status), it would still only be run as a single TecH copy. Though I do suspect most would be doubles, several triples, and stuff like Computer Search would be maxed out in many (most?) decks. XD

@HA559 I am not trying to keep you from participating in this discussion; sometimes I worry that is what people think when I make a counter point. You said something, that is fine. If what others say is unconvincing, go ahead and explain why we are wrong! We very well could be!
 
That way it becomes a bonus card, and decks can focus on normal card. I know you will have to be really lucky to find it. You are both right about how it could affect the game if it were to happen, and it will require luck to find it early in the match.

Maybe have four but only have 1 in play at a time?

I like decks that are less dependant on EX pokemon.
 
HA559 said:
That way it becomes a bonus card, and decks can focus on normal card. I know you will have to be really lucky to find it. You are both right about how it could affect the game if it were to happen, and it will require luck to find it early in the match.

Maybe have four but only have 1 in play at a time?

I like decks that are less dependant on EX pokemon.
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Restricting how many you can have in play at a time but not how many total you may run is indeed an interesting option.

To be fair though decks being less dependent on Pokémon-EX is mostly a matter of the designers deciding to stop making it so; nothing about the mechanic inherently requires we all run them. It is just that even apart from the main attacker Types, there are some like Shaymin-EX that are staples and some like Keldeo-EX that (if not now) have been near staples.
 
The biggest problem with EXs is that they are all Basic. If you made EXs actually need to evolve (as with the OG Pokemon-ex), then a large amount of them can keep their present power levels, or even higher, as they'd be balanced by the effort needed to get them into play. Then, it would become a task of balancing the remaining Basic EXs (specifically Legendaries, as they tend to be the worst offenders) to reasonable power levels (lower than those of their evolved counterparts). Now, I doubt TPCI could handle the task of creating a balanced metagame where EXs aren't a big problem, but it would certainly be nice.

~SS
 
Shiny Shinx said:
The biggest problem with EXs is that they are all Basic. If you made EXs actually need to evolve (as with the OG Pokemon-ex), then a large amount of them can keep their present power levels, or even higher, as they'd be balanced by the effort needed to get them into play. Then, it would become a task of balancing the remaining Basic EXs (specifically Legendaries, as they tend to be the worst offenders) to reasonable power levels (lower than those of their evolved counterparts). Now, I doubt TPCI could handle the task of creating a balanced metagame where EXs aren't a big problem, but it would certainly be nice.

~SS
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I must disagree based on my experience.

I was there for the "EX-era", when Pokémon-ex roamed the earth. We thought the original Basic Pokémon-ex where gonna break the game, but it turned out they were far weaker than the Evolved forms, which did go on to dominate the game. Eventually we got some Basic Pokémon-ex that could compete as well, but it took a while. During that period, Basics were generally under powered. The problem then was the same as now: pacing and overly powerful cards in general.

There are Basic Pokémon-EX out there right now that are bad cards. Not broken cards; under powered! Since they aren't being played, we don't think of them: out of sight, out of mind. The issue with the current Pokémon-EX is one of pacing. Forcing them to be Evolutions won't fix it because some Evolutions have shortcuts and because the real problem is just that the problem Basic Pokémon-EX are designed with good-to-great attacks or Abilities they can use ASAP. As well as lower Stages that don't do enough to help their Evolved forms.

Edit: Plus Mega Evolutions are Pokémon-EX and not Basics; even though they Evolve from Basic Pokémon-EX, would it really be that different if they worked more like BREAK Evolutions?
 
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