Discussion Volcanion (and other Fire) decks in Expanded (Post-ban)

Discussion in 'PTCG Competitive Play' started by Andy Sheppard, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. Andy Sheppard Fire Pokemon Afficiando
    Andy Sheppard

    Member

    The announcement that Hex Maniac will be banned from Expanded after 17 August seems to have given Volcanion-EX and Archie's Blastoise some much-needed relief. How much play, if any, can Volcanion expect to see in Expanded after the ban takes effect?

    I'm also asking about other fire decks like Blaziken-GX. That chicken seems to be much more suited for Expanded thanks to Blacksmith. How viable does it appear?
     


  2. Christopher Shehan Aspiring Trainer
    Christopher Shehan

    Member

    As someone that really enjoys Archie's I am excited for the ban. Volcanion can be brutal in expanded with the likes of Blacksmith and Battle Compressor. I think with the change the format will open up quite a bit so it should be more enjoyable going forward.
     
    Andy Sheppard likes this.
  3. AuraJackle Aspiring Trainer
    AuraJackle

    Member

    I'm hyped for expanded blaziken doubt it will go far just cuz how speedy stage 1 and basic decks there are. Archie and maxie decks lost puzzle of time but order pad is a nice replacement so mayb they will make some headway
     
  4. Christopher Shehan Aspiring Trainer
    Christopher Shehan

    Member

    I don't use puzzle myself acro bike and mail seem to be enough
     
  5. Timothy Vigil Aspiring Trainer
    Timothy Vigil

    Member

    You could play blaziken GX with Ho-oh GX and try and use Ho-oh’s GX attack to get Blazikens on board without evolving. May be clunky and anything that causes you to discard or pick up benched Pokémon would shred you.
     
  6. Connor Ritter TCG Player
    Connor Ritter

    Member

    Post Ban you’re gonna need to make sure you have outs to Walls like Scoundrel Ring Hoopa and maybe Pyroar if that see play again. Maybe Salazzle GX will come back or you can play your own Pyroar.
     
  7. Andy Sheppard Fire Pokemon Afficiando
    Andy Sheppard

    Member

    Baby Volcanion can handle Hoopa just fine. Steam Artillery + Steam Up will OHKO it.
     
    Otaku likes this.
  8. Connor Ritter TCG Player
    Connor Ritter

    Member

    Yeah exactly you just gotta make sure to run a counter. I was playing a Ho-Oh variant without any non-EX/GX since I could Hex Maniac against Hoopa.
     
  9. Andy Sheppard Fire Pokemon Afficiando
    Andy Sheppard

    Member

    I thought Volcanion decks ran at least 2 Baby Volcs anyway for energy acceleration/recharge.
     
  10. Connor Ritter TCG Player
    Connor Ritter

    Member

    Between Kiawe, Blacksmith, Max Elixir, and Turtonator GX I stopped running baby Volc.
     
  11. JGB146 ♫♪.ılıl|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|lılı.♫♪
    JGB146

    Activities Staff Member

    I love fire decks. The first thing I learned on was Turbo Volc, and adding Turtonator + Ho-Oh into the mix seems really strong. But...

    To keep pace with Zoroark and Co, we need to be doing 210 in damage consistently, turn after turn, with only four Pokemon on our bench, and potentially without the use of basic abilities (because Alolan Muk). I think there are still just too many ways for Zoroark decks to shut us down. :(
     
  12. JGB146 ♫♪.ılıl|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|lılı.♫♪
    JGB146

    Activities Staff Member

    Technically we get 5-8 Pokemon in our bench if basic abilities are off, but at that point it doesn't seem like it really matters because what good is having time of bench spots if we can't use it abilities?
     
  13. Andy Sheppard Fire Pokemon Afficiando
    Andy Sheppard

    Member

    Ho-Oh GX can OHKO Zoroark with a CB or a Steam Up boost.
     
  14. JGB146 ♫♪.ılıl|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|lılı.♫♪
    JGB146

    Activities Staff Member

    I'm well aware of this. But if steam up is off the table, you're relying strictly on getting enough Ho-Oh out and enough choice bands and enough energy to stream attacks.

    I mained Ho-Oh/Salazzle for months in standard, but even after I could beat Garde 70% of the time, I couldn't reliably beat Zoroark/Lycanroc. Playing it in a format dominated by the deck that was toughest to handle in standard after it has gained the ability to OHKO is back... Seems iffy.
     
  15. Andy Sheppard Fire Pokemon Afficiando
    Andy Sheppard

    Member

    I've beaten that deck numerous times.
     
  16. JGB146 ♫♪.ılıl|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|lılı.♫♪
    JGB146

    Activities Staff Member

    So have I. I tracked my results for most of 2018 and maintained around an 80% win rate overall including online and irl with the deck. But when Paw Patrol was played by skilled players, it beat me several times as well. As it gets in popularity, my win rate against good players started dropping. Then FBL came out and both Buzz and Malamar could reliably out pace Ho-Oh (not necessary for the first KO, but reliably for the full stuff prizes).
     

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