Expanded Unown DAMAGE/ Reuniclus (BLW)/ Wailord EX/ Weavile (STS)/ Klefki (STS)/ Magma Secret Base

[Merovingian]

Forgot to add.

I know it’s different games, but in Yugioh, any OTK deck that can get their win condition to work 70% of the time is worth looking into. But because you’re not shooting to win on the first turn only, that throws things off.

Use this as an estimate. Out of 100 hands, you should be comboing out at least 70 games T2-T3 (BTW, what is the average amount of turns that this combos out at, because that needs to be factored in as well).

Your first round of consistency checks is not going to factor in a “live” opponent, but see more how many turns it takes you to combo off and find the average amount of turns it takes to combo out.
Actually pen-and-paper your results for this.

If you make ANY changes, you have to do testing all over again and document results.

Once you’re comfortable with your build, test against live opponents. Or just use DAMAGE and another meta deck you have on hand and go back and forth as you pretend to be both opponents at once. If you do this, actually play as a component opponent and not do goofy stuff like withholding Guzma to KO a Reuniclus early on. Sounds silly, but
builder bias is a thing.

Because you are giving your opponent a chance to respond and take KOs, Im willing to bet that your consistency from consistency checks to live testing will drop 5-8%

 

[SmiteKnight]

I think Meovingian’s idea is a good one.
Being able to test how often a combo works is a great idea, before even trying to do it against real opponents.
Also keep in mind, prizes will screw with the combo (prizing all of one peice of the reiuniclus line, prizing all Unknown, Wailord ETC), though it is extremely unlikely.

 

[DKQuagmire]

If anyone would like to try and test Gladion in this deck, that would be great. Prizing a piece or 2 might not be the end of the world, but when you prize 2 of one pokemon, and you only play it as a 2 of, that could potentially lose you the game.
While not something to worry about turn 1, during your set up phase (damn this does sound like yu-gi-oh right). Using Gladion on turn 2 or 3 could be game changing.

Looking through my pokemon line, i'm still not happy with Mr. Mime. Sure he blocks a Buzzwole GX's bench damage, or Tapu Koko's Flying Flip spread. But if you bench more than 1 of each low HP pokemon (especially Solosis) you should be improving your chances of that low hp pokemon evolving. Ditto also helps get out Duosion and Weavile. (hopefully this will be for Weavile and not for evolving into Duosion. but the 50 hp is an improvement over solosis' 30 hp.)
if you do get all your fully evolved Pokemon out, and perhaps you have more than 1 Reuniclus and or Weavile in play, just klefki loop to knock out these extra pokemon so your bench is made up of 4 slots. the 2 Wailord, 1 Reuniclus and 1 Weavile and you should be set.

 

[VuDu-JuJu]

Forgot to add.

I know it’s different games, but in Yugioh, any OTK deck that can get their win condition to work 70% of the time is worth looking into. But because you’re not shooting to win on the first turn only, that throws things off.

Use this as an estimate. Out of 100 hands, you should be comboing out at least 70 games T2-T3 (BTW, what is the average amount of turns that this combos out at, because that needs to be factored in as well).

Your first round of consistency checks is not going to factor in a “live” opponent, but see more how many turns it takes you to combo off and find the average amount of turns it takes to combo out.
Actually pen-and-paper your results for this.

If you make ANY changes, you have to do testing all over again and document results.

Once you’re comfortable with your build, test against live opponents. Or just use DAMAGE and another meta deck you have on hand and go back and forth as you pretend to be both opponents at once. If you do this, actually play as a component opponent and not do goofy stuff like withholding Guzma to KO a Reuniclus early on. Sounds silly, but
builder bias is a thing.

Because you are giving your opponent a chance to respond and take KOs, Im willing to bet that your consistency from consistency checks to live testing will drop 5-8%

To be fair though, as a former Yugioh player as well, those instant-win decks also tend to work best when you have a 10 card combo and can fill out the rest with either draw cards or traps and "lockdown" cards. The ability to respond to something the opponent does really changes how I look at OTK's in this game. It really doesn't matter how many turns this deck takes to win as long as it wins consistently, because the only things your opponent can do to stop you outside of abilities all have to be done on their turn. Once it's your turn, if you have the combo you're going to get it off that turn no matter what, whereas in yugioh I could stop you at any point with a well timed trap, whether regular or hand-trap.
EDIT: A perfect example of that would be the ol' Exodia spell decks. Those decks were wildly inconsistent at times and at other times you could win before your oppponent ever had a turn. Nowadays I don't think an Exodia deck will ever see popularity again because players currently run tons of cards that happen to stop players from drawing into Exodia.

Out of curiosity mostly, since I know it's a card that serves as a specific counter here, but what options does this deck have when facing one or multiple Alolan Muks? If this deck actually ever starts seeing popularity it's going to be an obvious hard-counter since it stops multiple parts of the combo dead.

 

[The Last Shaymin]

Out of curiosity mostly, since I know it's a card that serves as a specific counter here, but what options does this deck have when facing one or multiple Alolan Muks? If this deck actually ever starts seeing popularity it's going to be an obvious hard-counter since it stops multiple parts of the combo dead.

It loses.

It really cannot win against alolan muk

However, if you go first (and thats an IF) you can maybe get your t2 combo out before their muk comes out.

so, you still have a chance

Oh, and to beat trev, what if you ran a couple of those +1energy attack goomy? it could prevent them from getting off an ascension so they wouldnt be able to item lock you

 

[VuDu-JuJu]

It loses.

It really cannot win against alolan muk

However, if you go first (and thats an IF) you can maybe get your t2 combo out before their muk comes out.

so, you still have a chance

Oh, and to beat trev, what if you ran a couple of those +1energy attack goomy? it could prevent them from getting off an ascension so they wouldnt be able to item lock you

The more I think about it, even the mere existence of Alolan Muk on the field would mean an auto-loss. Even if we had Hex Maniac to use, you would have to use it at the beginning of the turn and would therefore lock yourself out of performing your combo.

 

[Merovingian]

The more I think about it, even the mere existence of Alolan Muk on the field would mean an auto-loss. Even if we had Hex Maniac to use, you would have to use it at the beginning of the turn and would therefore lock yourself out of performing your combo.

The way the current meta is shaping up, Garbotoxin is really popular between Zoro Garb and Psychic Toolbox.

DAMAGE is a fun concept but won't get off the ground.

To be fair though, as a former Yugioh player as well,

yay! A former player of the cursed game!

those instant-win decks also tend to work best when you have a 10 card combo and can fill out the rest with either draw cards or traps and "lockdown" cards.

My question is, "when did you play?" I went from 2005-2012 and saw everything from CED-Yata, Magical Explosion, Dimension Fusion, Deep Draw Exodia, Super Rejuvenation Dragons Exodia, Reversal Quiz, Self-Destruct Button Turbo. Aside from Yata-lock, everything else was jam packed with Spell draw engine and didn't require a whole lot to work.

The ability to respond to something the opponent does really changes how I look at OTK's in this game. It really doesn't matter how many turns this deck takes to win as long as it wins consistently, because the only things your opponent can do to stop you outside of abilities all have to be done on their turn. Once it's your turn, if you have the combo you're going to get it off that turn no matter what, whereas in yugioh I could stop you at any point with a well timed trap, whether regular or hand-trap.

Because Pokemon doesn't have any response/interrupt cards or effects (anymore), the buff on things like the Unowns come in the form of harder to accomplish effects.

EDIT: A perfect example of that would be the ol' Exodia spell decks. Those decks were wildly inconsistent at times and at other times you could win before your oppponent ever had a turn. Nowadays I don't think an Exodia deck will ever see popularity again because players currently run tons of cards that happen to stop players from drawing into Exodia.

I played Exodia. Typically, if you are shooting for an OTK/FTK deck, 80% consistency is what'll work in tournaments, but 70% will get your foot in the door. Exodia had a tendency to typically run 60-65% on average. Super Rejuvenation builds ran somewhere in the mid 70% and so did Deep Draw Exodia (similar to 2008 Magical Explosion builds, but with Exodia parts instead). There was even a Hope for an Escape Exodia build that was ran at Worlds one year.

But yeah, Exodia was typically and will always be relatively inconsistent. I think the days of 75-80% successful Exodia OTK decks are a product of their time.

 

[VuDu-JuJu]

yay! A former player of the cursed game!



My question is, "when did you play?" I went from 2005-2012 and saw everything from CED-Yata, Magical Explosion, Dimension Fusion, Deep Draw Exodia, Super Rejuvenation Dragons Exodia, Reversal Quiz, Self-Destruct Button Turbo. Aside from Yata-lock, everything else was jam packed with Spell draw engine and didn't require a whole lot to work.





Because Pokemon doesn't have any response/interrupt cards or effects (anymore), the buff on things like the Unowns come in the form of harder to accomplish effects.




I played Exodia. Typically, if you are shooting for an OTK/FTK deck, 80% consistency is what'll work in tournaments, but 70% will get your foot in the door. Exodia had a tendency to typically run 60-65% on average. Super Rejuvenation builds ran somewhere in the mid 70% and so did Deep Draw Exodia (similar to 2008 Magical Explosion builds, but with Exodia parts instead). There was even a Hope for an Escape Exodia build that was ran at Worlds one year.

But yeah, Exodia was typically and will always be relatively inconsistent. I think the days of 75-80% successful Exodia OTK decks are a product of their time.

I quit when I was young but got back into it around the mid-point of Zexal when Xyz had come out. I played it all the way until this last new Vrains series, when they introduced Link Monsters and ruined almost all my decks because of the new mechanics. I had an extremely familiar grasp of the game's mechanics to the point where I was answering rulings for people who just didn't understand how to read the cards.
Nowadays, hand-traps are abundant in the meta, particularly the ones that you can use to stop you opponent from drawing for the turn. A popular, if not bs, strategy with one archetype actually enables you to banish your opponent's entire hand and simultaneously not allow them to draw any cards that turn, while freeing you to do whatever. If you go second, a lot of times your opponent will be able to find ways to just screw you and lock you out of plays entirely.
My meta when I started was all about the E-Dragon Rulers and the stupidly absurd plays you could pull off with them. Then we moved onto the power-creep of spammable Rank-4 Xyz monsters, the mass-swarming capabilities all the various Pendulum archetypes brought with them, and then finally the actual variety of meta decks that were around right before they ruined them all with Links. Before they dropped Link Monsters, the meta managed to find room for all kinds of summoning methods, not just the one introduced in that series like they normally are. It was fun seeing fusion, ritual and synchros actually dominate parts of the meta. but now it's all Link spam again.

 

[Kontoleon]

I just see this combo is really BROKEN!
i mean near nothing cannot counter this deck if you go first and run perfectly
Alolan Muk is stage one and need 2 nd turn to evolve
Sudowoodo can slow down this deck but with cards like FFB can win the game(and when Tag team GX was coming not even need FFB)
First turn Item lock is a problem(need rare country) (but you can evolve manually to Stage 1 pokemon.)
Ok spread fast deck can hit this hard(Buzzwole with Double K.O 2 babies) (Solosis have 30 HP) And

So the only way to break this is Item lock first turn+ Ability lock (2nd turn) ! or Fast spread kills.

If opponent play no sudowoodo you have one more space to use from set up(SAYMIN EX) and if you set up you win!

So this deck have 2 big weakness Trevenant Break with Alolan muk and Buzzwole with Sudowoodo (mr mind can counter Buzz but no buzz with sudo)

I smell that this combo was ok BROKEN list

 

[Merovingian]

E

I just see this combo is really BROKEN!
i mean near nothing cannot counter this deck if you go first and run perfectly
Alolan Muk is stage one and need 2 nd turn to evolve
Sudowoodo can slow down this deck but with cards like FFB can win the game(and when Tag team GX was coming not even need FFB)
First turn Item lock is a problem(need rare country) (but you can evolve manually to Stage 1 pokemon.)
Ok spread fast deck can hit this hard(Buzzwole with Double K.O 2 babies) (Solosis have 30 HP) And

So the only way to break this is Item lock first turn+ Ability lock (2nd turn) ! or Fast spread kills.

If opponent play no sudowoodo you have one more space to use from set up(SAYMIN EX) and if you set up you win!

So this deck have 2 big weakness Trevenant Break with Alolan muk and Buzzwole with Sudowoodo (mr mind can counter Buzz but no buzz with sudo)

I smell that this combo was ok BROKEN list

The problem with DAMAGE, and all the win condition Unowns, is that they D-I-E to Item-Lock.

First AND second place in Portland were Item-Lock. Seismitoad had 6 builds in top 32. Trevenant had 7. 40% of the field was Item-Lock and I’d HIGHLY expect to see more Trev and Seismitoad for Anaheim and Dallas.

It looks fun and could win games, but it has borderline autoloss matchups against the top 2 decks in the format unless they can God-hand a T1 donk.

 

[AuraJackle]

Month old decklist congrats those who soft necro bumped this

 

[Alex Sableye]

Just a link to the deck in action. If Trevenant/Garbodor/Alolan Muk aren't big factors in your local league, definitely play this deck.

Edit: Vid has a clickbaity thumbnail. Wailord and Weavile aren't getting banned.

 

[Audiofreak19]

Any way to convert this sort of thing into standard?

 

[Alex Sableye]

Any way to convert this sort of thing into standard?

Unfortunately the closest thing in Standard to Klefki is Shedinja, which is a stage 1. Closest you can get is letting damage pile up on a bunch of stage two gxes. It's not very reliable. The best use I've found for it is a tech in Metagross/Solgaleo, just in case a safeguard Pokemon jumps me. Let them almost KO several Pokemon, then swap for Unown. Not a reliable win condition, but doable.