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Standard Tsareena Lockdown

Alphahitman4

Quad Sylveon Master
Member
I was interetsed with Tsareena's ability to look at opponents hand and discard a card. Point of my deck is to red card, play forest of giant plants and evolve to Tsareena and then play delinquent to leave them with no hand. Any insight on changes would be appreciatted. I put skarmory in here, if mid game they have alot of dce energy out there and can either ninja boy or just retreat and put skarmoiry out there and use metal sound to rid all special energy. I would like to and 4 trainers mail if possible but not sure what to more around.

Monsters
3-3-3 Bounsweet-Steenee-Tsareena (SM)
1 Hoopa EX (AOR)
2 Lugia EX (AOR)
2 Shaymin EX (ROS)
1 Skarmory (SM)

Trainers
4 VS Seeker
3 Ultraball
3 Prof. Sycamore
3 Delinquent
3 Red Card
2 Timer Ball
2 Shauna
2 Revitalizer
1 Ninja Boy
1 Hex Maniac
1 Team Flare Grunt
1 lysandre
1 Pokemon Ranger
3 forest of giant plants
3 Parallel city

Enerty
7 Grass
4 DCE
 
Delinquent is a really bad idea here if you are going for t1 consistency. Devolution spray and a thicker line of Tsareena (4-4-3) will help you use the ability 4 times (you don't always have to to achieve the lock tho, ofc). Also run 1-1/2-2 line of shinotic on the side so devo spray is less likely to be a dead card early on. (4 FOGP not 3)
Dump the techy stuff: Hoopa-EX, skarmory, delinquent, 1-2 revitalizer (can run 3-4 with battle compressor), ninja boy, hex, flare grunt, ranger, all 3 cities, and there's too much energy. You shouldn't need much tech if the lock works (which it should 93% of the time; no pressure). Oh, and 2 lysandre please.
Absol (sm1+) looks like a promising combo, while Yveltal-EX could be used to combo in the dark energies. Having access to the order of your opponent's deck stops them breaking the lock (and playing :3 )N.B. lugia attacking for DCE only does 40 dmg so it isn't exactly snatching up any quick ko's that Yveltal misses with it's need for a 2nd energy attachment. N.B. puzzle of time is an option (only with 3-4 trainers' mail).
This deck should be about the lock, the whole lock, and nothing but the lock. In view of this, Oranguru shall always be a problem for this kick ass deck...
Good luck taking this to higher places,
Swan
 
Have been testing, and the following has worked for me:
  • -1 bounsweet -1 steenee +4 lv ball
  • + unown !!!
  • -hoopaEX, bench space.
  • absol-yveltal-EX has been working for me as the attacking engine. (feel so evil in those games where my opponent cannot even topdeck their way out of the lock.):cool:
  • 3rd shaymini-EX if possible:cool:
  • more ultra ball, only play 3-4 lillie for all your supporter cards!!! :eek:
  • sub in puzzle of time for vs seeker. 4x devospray;)
  • minus all the tech (inc the p cities):cool:
  • go down to 7-9 energies?
  • Fill using acro bikes!!! :p
  • Enjoy the salt! :D
  • Edit: Cry when your opponent benches an oranguru :( (a coin flip 50-50 matchup)
Overall I feel the emoji of the deck to be :cool: swagtastic!
N.B. This deck is literally free-lo
 
Last edited:
Have been testing, and the following has worked for me:
  • -1 bounsweet -1 steenee +4 lv ball
  • + unown !!!
  • -hoopaEX, bench space.
  • absol-yveltal-EX has been working for me as the attacking engine. (feel so evil in those games where my opponent cannot even topdeck their way out of the lock.):cool:
  • 3rd shaymini-EX if possible:cool:
  • more ultra ball, only play 3-4 lillie for all your supporter cards!!! :eek:
  • sub in puzzle of time for vs seeker. 4x devospray;)
  • minus all the tech (inc the p cities):cool:
  • go down to 7-9 energies?
  • Fill using acro bikes!!! :p
  • Enjoy the salt! :D
  • Edit: Cry when your opponent benches an oranguru :( (a coin flip 50-50 matchup)
Overall I feel the emoji of the deck to be :cool: swagtastic!
N.B. This deck is literally free-lo
I appreciatte all the tip, but which absol and yveltal are you talking about..im not 100% sure..ur sayin i should only play 3-4 lillie as my only supporters?
 
I appreciatte all the tip, but which absol and yveltal are you talking about..im not 100% sure..ur sayin i should only play 3-4 lillie as my only supporters?
There's a new absol (released in sm1+ japan) to be released sometime before/around/in the next set. Similar to choice band and the oricorio cards we are getting.
100hp dark
[D] future sight: reorder the top 4 of either players deck
[DC] doom news: return all energy on absol to hand. The defending pokemon is knocked out at the end of your opponents next turn (retreating/evolving/ranger removes the effect)
retreat: 1
I am talking about Yveltal-EX as it is basically just a strong clearance attacker.
About the supporter thing, the deck Tsareena is most similar to imo is vespiquen/vileplume from the last standard format, in that it tries to setup a win in the first couple of turns. Charizard Lounge has an article on it:
http://thecharizardlounge.com/2016/...g-vespiquenvileplume-at-the-chicago-marathon/
 
There's a new absol (released in sm1+ japan) to be released sometime before/around/in the next set. Similar to choice band and the oricorio cards we are getting.
100hp dark
[D] future sight: reorder the top 4 of either players deck
[DC] doom news: return all energy on absol to hand. The defending pokemon is knocked out at the end of your opponents next turn (retreating/evolving/ranger removes the effect)
retreat: 1
I am talking about Yveltal-EX as it is basically just a strong clearance attacker.
About the supporter thing, the deck Tsareena is most similar to imo is vespiquen/vileplume from the last standard format, in that it tries to setup a win in the first couple of turns. Charizard Lounge has an article on it:
http://thecharizardlounge.com/2016/...g-vespiquenvileplume-at-the-chicago-marathon/
Great thanks for the additional info.. on side note would playing skyla help, since i am not supporter heavy it should be able to be used and it can grab specific card, like red card if really needed, or ultraball..just a thought
 
In my testing I started out with 2 skyla and a sycamore, however after completing a lock the only reasource you need to draw is energy so they didn't really matter. I also didn't find myself whiffing a lillie (unless I didn't need one to perform the lock which in the end is what matters), so I removed them.
N.B. The future sight is really important as if the lock fails, you basically have maybe a couple of yveltal-EXs to fight with...
 
In my testing I started out with 2 skyla and a sycamore, however after completing a lock the only reasource you need to draw is energy so they didn't really matter. I also didn't find myself whiffing a lillie (unless I didn't need one to perform the lock which in the end is what matters), so I removed them.
N.B. The future sight is really important as if the lock fails, you basically have maybe a couple of yveltal-EXs to fight with...
Oh ok, what set is the Yveltal ex from?
 
It was originally printed in the xy base set, but had a tin print as black star promo 150 which has kept it legal in the standard format.
Oh ok, yea when looking online the set i saw didnt seem standard legal, but that helps. thanks again, relaly gnna be some big changes from how I set it up, seems like non supporter heavy for this type of deck could be huge
 
Just wanted to mention I've also been playing an exp. share cause its like a [D] that I can throw down quickly early, or rely on late if it does come down to trading. While on this train of thought, its not that bad to just end up playing a game with yveltal-EX while taking down your opponent's vs seekers and draw support, ofc its all at the cost of not being able to do any lysandring ourselves... In this way it might be best to play 3 copies, might cut something... btw i don't think we can run below 3 lillie as its still nice to have draws a few turns in, but its something I'm unsure about.
 
Just wanted to mention I've also been playing an exp. share cause its like a [D] that I can throw down quickly early, or rely on late if it does come down to trading. While on this train of thought, its not that bad to just end up playing a game with yveltal-EX while taking down your opponent's vs seekers and draw support, ofc its all at the cost of not being able to do any lysandring ourselves... In this way it might be best to play 3 copies, might cut something... btw i don't think we can run below 3 lillie as its still nice to have draws a few turns in, but its something I'm unsure about.
Yea with playtesting a little, i think must play 4 Lilie, how many red cards should be played as well?
 
I started with 3 from YellowSwellow's (poor; although he just wanted to prove it worked) list and never needed a 4th, you need it early like FOGP, but not as early. But you still wanna hit it soon so 3 is probably the min (can't take the idea of running 2 and 1 is prized). It's true sometimes your opponent goes first and plays to 4 cards in hand, but when they go first about 50% of the time, the risk isn't worth the occasional time you can get away with only 2 copies of it.
Gearing the deck out to play 3 yveltal-EXs means we can fallback on the age-old strat of attacking with yveltal while doing things in the backround (taking out anything you like in your opponents hand every now and then as you like). This is important cause once your opponent sees what you are doing they may throw down oranguru. At a local level people will literally put the card in their deck just for me! It kinda feels like how vespiplume was with aegislash, it's funny how tcg's repeat themselves.
 
I started with 3 from YellowSwellow's (poor; although he just wanted to prove it worked) list and never needed a 4th, you need it early like FOGP, but not as early. But you still wanna hit it soon so 3 is probably the min (can't take the idea of running 2 and 1 is prized). It's true sometimes your opponent goes first and plays to 4 cards in hand, but when they go first about 50% of the time, the risk isn't worth the occasional time you can get away with only 2 copies of it.
Gearing the deck out to play 3 yveltal-EXs means we can fallback on the age-old strat of attacking with yveltal while doing things in the backround (taking out anything you like in your opponents hand every now and then as you like). This is important cause once your opponent sees what you are doing they may throw down oranguru. At a local level people will literally put the card in their deck just for me! It kinda feels like how vespiplume was with aegislash, it's funny how tcg's repeat themselves.
Oh ok that make sense, so from previous post, should be playing 4 puzzles of time?
 
Perhaps I'm wrong, but shouldn't you be playing Devolution Spray? You can immediately evolve in to Tsareena afterwards, meaning you'll have an easier time looping the combo.

-Asmer
 
Sorry about that, havent made updated list yet. here what I have so far.
Monsters
4-4-3 Bounsweet-Steenee-Tsareena (SM)
2 Lugia EX (AOR).. eventually Yveltal EX when i get them
2 Shaymin EX (ROS)
2 Absol EX (not out yet)

Trainers
4 Devolution Spray
4 Ultraball
4 Lillie
3 Red Card
3 Level Ball
1 Revitalizer
2 lysandre
4 forest of giant plants
1 Special Charge
4 Trainer's mail
4 Puzzle of time


Enerty
6 Grass
4 DCE
 
Gonna toss out a few suggestions that should help because no matter how good Hand Dropping decks can be, they still can't stop a top decked Sycamore.

+3 Professor Sycamore: You're going to want some secondary form of Draw Power and I feel that Sycamore does it the best. Blowing your hand, Drawing 7, then blowing your hand more to Shaymin in to your Wombo is going to be a common thing for your deck (as it should be, too). Also, keep in mind that as nice as Lillie is, it's best used Turn 1. Because of that, you're going to want some better Supporters as a whole and Professor Sycamore is a great place to start.
+3 N: N is as good for this deck as Sycamore is, except in a much different way. N means that the longer the game goes, the worse of a situation your Opponent is going to be in. It also allows you to have needed Shuffles in the early parts of the game for no negative setbacks, which is also needed in combo decks like this.
+1 Skyla: This is to guarantee FoGP Turn 1 as well as draw in to things like Devolution Spray and Float Stones if you need them (I'll show you my changes overall in a second). It's a bit of a small tech, but it is fairly important because of the ability to grab anything you need that isn't searchable by a Ball card.

I'm honestly confused why you dropped so far from your original list. As good as the combo from Tsareena is, the extra support from Supporters and some of the cards you originally had in are necessary for when the combo doesn't work (which will happen more often than you want). I would personally go back to something like this:

Pokemon - 15
4 Bounsweet SM
4 Steenee SM
3 Tsareena SM
2 Lugia EX
2 Shaymin EX

Supporter/Item/Stadium - 37
3 Professor Sycamore
3 N
3 Lillie
1 Lysandre
1 Skyla

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
4 Devolution Spray
3 Trainers' Mail
3 Level Ball
3 Red Card
1 Revitalizer

4 Forest of Giant Plants

Energy - 10
4 Double Colorless Energy
6 Grass Energy

So, with this build, you'll have a lot more stability when it comes to combo wiffs/top deck Supporter Counters. You also have a much stronger ability to extend your combos during your turns, meaning that you should be able to loop Tsareenas much more efficiently. Finally, you can actually afford to drop some Grass Energy for some extra Search Cards if you desire, since Lugia is somewhat of a back-up plan anyway. You can opt for Super Rod over Revitalizer as well if you desire since both basically do the same thing here.

If you have any questions, let me know. This should give you what you want from the deck, which is an early combo of Hand Denial and consistency in case they are able to play past their newfound situation. Have fun and good luck!

-Asmer
 
Okay, I will lay this out in points:
1) yes, 4x puzzle of time and 4x devolution spray
2) Been doing match testing and have found yveltal-EX to be to "complex" to fit; have downgraded to lugia-EX which is doing much better. The 2nd attack also helps safely clear tauros-GX after sky returning, so I am pondering between 2 lugia-1 absol (note not an EX) and just 3 lugia, dropping absol altogether. @Alphahitman4 I hope you haven't brought any yveltals... :confused:
3) Important! Both of you! Play 2-2 for bounsweet and steenee!!! The argument for sycamore over lillie is that you may have a cloggy hand that can't be dumped, the following can clog: FOGP, devo spray, energy, and evolution lines, (esp. when you have to dig for FOGP). With this in mind, it is best to lower the line to 2-2-2/3/4 and build only 1 Tsareena, (loop with devo and puzzle is the whole point!). In compansation to the lowered counts, you run 3-4 level ball, this is much more consistent as 1) it gives you options for which you want between basic and stage 1 and 2) search unown out; which comboes with lv ball, shaymin and lillie!!! Far too much synergy not to play it!
Useful info: Ran the numbers, and for every 2 count in a deck there's a 0.85% chance of prizing both copies of it in any given game.;)
4) Ontop of my 3 level ball, I've been running 2 nest balls which can get me the same stuff with the exception that it gets Lugia/absol but not steenee. This way I can play down my energy and lower my count of acro bike cause I'm super dubious of it when it gives me a puzzle and a red card when I need the red card...:confused:
5) Revitaliser is not needed!!! This is for 4 lillie variant, as the only cards in the list that can put tsareena lines in the dp are acro bike (if applicable) and ultra ball. It takes a lot of practice to check my deck asap every game to make sure I don't discard the only steenee or something.:D
6) What's in the prizes is highly important: say if I prize 1-2 red card; and I have the option of Queenly Majestying 2-3 times on my opponent's start hand, or using my double puzzle to dig for red card instead. If I know 2 red cards are prized, I'm not exactly going to double puzzle for trainers' mails. If 1 is prized, I might puzzle for a Tmail and a devo. It also becomes more important to know what is prized as said above when running lower counts of steenee.
7) Guys, I'm sorry but 3 shaymins are neccessary, sorry again. Tbf most people would say 4 and never test 3, but I'm pretty sure it works with 3 just fine.
8) @Asmer attacking with Tsareena is the backup plan if you ask me... Also, the point here is to end up with speed and consistency that still works for the full game, but not quite needing to play a "solid" list (vs seekers, tech supporters, etc); however I shall test your list.:)
10) 10 energy is too much. Can't play it fast enough and a full game can be played with less so there is no reason to play more.
11) neither of these lists can retreat sans hard switching, having a free-retreat mon in play is always neat in a combo orientated deck if you don't yet know if you will be able to attack after a knock out, apart from being able to put up a Tsareena meat shield for 140 to stall a turn.
Note: you can't play unown without float stones.
12) @Asmer Lillie isn't going to work with: 7 evolutions, 10 other supporters, 4 vs seekers, 4 devolution sprays, a revitaliser, 3 FOGP, and 9 energy (= almost 2/3 of your deck) clogging your hand. In your list I'd run 4 syca and 0 lillie.
13) Welcome, Asmer, to our little thread which is destinated to bring hatred (and greatness I guess...) to Tsareena. :p
Currently re-working my list: Yveltal engine -> Lugia engine, but will post if interested. :cool:
 
You're killing me with the numbers, yo. Lol. I'll answer what I feel needs to be answer (I'm too tired for this xD ).

1. Yeah, I like 4 Puzzle as well. Forgot to add them in. 4 Devolution Spray is a must.
2. Sounds good.
3. I'm not 100% sold on a 2-2-2+ line for a deck that focuses on said combo. That said, if we shift the focus to having it a secondary (which it should be in all reality), then I agree. That said, 2-2-2 in that regard. Anything else would be ridiculously bad when it comes to probability etc.
4. I love Nest Ball. So. Much.
5. Agreed on Revitalizer, though I would still run Super Rod.
6. Answered the thingy regarding Puzzle in #1.
7. Nothing is ever "necessary" in anything, whether that is a life or a card game. The deck can function with 2 Shaymin EX and will if the player truly wills it. That said, more Shaymin EX will always be welcomed in a deck like this, obviously.
8-12. I did the lazy thing of working off his list. I shouldn't have done that. Float Stones should be in here. 2 Lillie would be fine in all honesty if one decides to run it at all. You still want more solid options when it comes to this game, regardless of what you run, which is why I included VS Seekers, Sycamores, etc etc etc. I do like 4 Sycamore btw and I have no idea why I suggested 3 over 4. I'm apparently extremely tired. And yes, you can lower the Energy count.

13. To be honest, as cool of a concept as the deck is, I don't see why I would ever bring this over something like Lurantis GX/Friends or any other aggressive deck for that matter. I love the concept of the deck, but quite frankly, just like with VileLock, you're relying on a combo that doesn't consistently go off every game, meaning you risk being smashed by decks with simple set-ups (Lurantis, Golduck to an extent, Volcanion, etc.). Still, the concept it fun and that always perks my interest. Regardless, keep up the good work.

-Asmer
 
Haha, perhaps answer in the morning?
3) atm I'm doing 2-2-3 so I dump Tsareena over Steenee from a start hand ultra ball.
6) have actually been running SR, how did you guess?!?
7) I mean to say that for t1 turboing Tsareena you need 3 shays: Generally only 2 will be played for the t1 lock; rarely need to dig with the third; reason 2) If one is prized, (roughly 21% chance if I were running only 2). All in all the 3rd shay is relevant a little less than a third of games.
8) True that
9) Just realised that there was no 9 :confused: my bad.
10) True that
12) 4 syca 3 N 1 Skyla 4 vs 4 tmail is a reasonably thick for a supporter lineup by general standards, solid minimum being 4 syca 2 N 4 vs 3 Tmail, and doesn't require 2 extra supporters.
13a) Lurantis-GX/friends: please elaborate which said friends Lurantis is bringing to the party.
13b)
I love the concept of the deck, but quite frankly, just like with VileLock, you're relying on a combo that doesn't consistently go off every game
I am interested in how often you think the combo goes off? Give me a nice solid % figure.
13c) LOL dat Golduck!!! Wouldn't call it a simple set-up, but boy I have spent ages trying to make that card actually work.
Let the good times roll!
 
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