Discussion The Garbodor Effect - Is He Worth It?

Past couple of weeks I've been playing both a Garb/M Mewtwo and Garb/M Scizor deck with a 2-2 line and 3 Float Stones. Garb has really come in handy each day of 3-4 rounds of play. (The extra float stones have come in handy as well). I've been lucky enough to get him down and active in Turn 2 or 3 but when an opponent was able to Shaymin/Hoopa early was where I felt it was too slow...

Shut down Sceptile/Ariados, Giratina/Darkrai, Greninja Break, Yanmega Break, Volcanion and forced countless Hoopa/Shaymin discards... (even my own to my dismay...)

Overall I like the card, but I have to agree with some of the OP that in games where you need it, it's hard to get down very early. I will continue to play Garb until I can create a faster/harder hitting deck than what I currently have.
 
Garbodor is played less to stop Shaymin and Hoopa and more to stop Abilities used throughout the game, like in the decks you mentioned.

If your heart is set on stopping Shaymin and Hoopa, try a heavy Silent Lab count (though this means you won't be able to use them yourself once you drop it). Wobbuffet in the active spot will stop Shaymin, but not Hoopa.
 
I have a feeling that Volcanion is not being payed the proper respect it deserves in this format.
 
How so? Volcanion struggles with all of the top decks outside of Scizor.
 
PMJ said:
How so? Volcanion struggles with all of the top decks outside of Scizor.
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I don't think it does. Garbodor checks it well, but otherwise Volcanion is too fast and strong for many decks to keep up with sans really good luck.
So much hype is around Mega Pokemon at the moment, and that makes the meta a lot easier to counter. It's why BKT Yveltal is so good right now. In my opinion, the meta is heading to a place where Volcanion can be very competitive. And that's why I like Garbodor. It is the single greatest counter to Volcanion.
 
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It's only strong if you have access to Steam Up. Otherwise your damage output is very lackluster.

Volcanion also struggles to OHKO anything not weak to Fire, and that's especially important against Mewtwo, who plays off your Energy and can Damage Change your attacks away, and Rayquaza, who plays off your Stadium and doesn't need to Bench more than 6 Pokemon, which prevents Entei from easily OHKOing.

During the mid to late game, Darkrai-EX's damage output can get into OHKO range whereas yours does not; never mind that this deck also sometimes runs Garbodor.

Volcanion needs two things in order to improve its worst matchups: tool removal and a Pokemon that can reliably do 150+ damage without multiple Steam Ups. Tool removal is the most important one, as Garbodor is the biggest obstacle. A Pokemon that can do high damage will help Volcanion get the OHKOs it desires without being forced to use Steam Up multiple times over consecutive turns.

And all of that said, it's still tier two, three at the worst. That's definitely not disrespect.
 
I have to agree with @PMJ Volcanion loses a potential 120 damage a turn as soon a Garbodor hits the table with a tool. The only real decks that can use Garbodor IMO are M Scizor EX and M Mewtwo EX (I keep forgeting about that Darkrai EX deck) but when it comes to mewtwo, if you can't hit them hard enough to get a OHKO, you get damage changed. Have you tried Mew in Volcanion?
 
Mew will be a much better tech in just about every deck once we get Tool removal. It makes the Mewtwo matchup a breeze.
 
PMJ said:
It's only strong if you have access to Steam Up. Otherwise your damage output is very lackluster.

Volcanion also struggles to OHKO anything not weak to Fire, and that's especially important against Mewtwo, who plays off your Energy and can Damage Change your attacks away, and Rayquaza, who plays off your Stadium and doesn't need to Bench more than 6 Pokemon, which prevents Entei from easily OHKOing.

During the mid to late game, Darkrai-EX's damage output can get into OHKO range whereas yours does not; never mind that this deck also sometimes runs Garbodor.

Volcanion needs two things in order to improve its worst matchups: tool removal and a Pokemon that can reliably do 150+ damage without multiple Steam Ups. Tool removal is the most important one, as Garbodor is the biggest obstacle. A Pokemon that can do high damage will help Volcanion get the OHKOs it desires without being forced to use Steam Up multiple times over consecutive turns.

And all of that said, it's still tier two, three at the worst. That's definitely not disrespect.
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Not too many decks right now are taking OHKO's. Volcanion is one of the few that actually does. The energy acceleration is no joke. Plus it can abuse Fighting Fury Belt. But look, I'm not saying that Volcanion is one of the best decks in the format... I don't think that. I do think it should be considered when you're choosing techs just as much as Mega Rayquaza or Mega Mewtwo, because if you're not prepared for it, Volcanion will beat you. Volcanion is the number one reason - much more so than Greninja or Giratina - that Garbodor is so good. I had to comment about Volcanion because there was hardly a mention of it in the OP.
 
Snek said:
You know what? I just remembered that Parallel City also cripples Volcanion... so nevermind. :D
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I take this back. I have been playing Volcanion for a bit now and Parallel City isn't as obstructive as Garbodor. On the other hand, Garb is a lot slower to set up than Volcanion. I think M Mewtwo with Garbodor is the toughest matchup for Volcanion, and I wouldn't bother with Garb in a M Scizor deck. In M Scizor it's better to run Silent Lab and Zoroark against Volcanion. If M Mewtwo doesn't run Garb, Volcanion has a much stronger chance, although maybe still close to 50/50.
 
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I play Valconian EX with Faded town. I've won, though not easy. Because M mewtwo can at times be tough to get a spirit link on, you can start putting early pressure on the game board. Once the early pressure comes and the shrine of memories fall, you drop faded town. I admit, it is not the easiest battle, and if Mew gets that quick start it wreck some havoc. But if at any point, the M Mew decks slows there is a bit of an opening.

I've beaten M Mew offline and online. Offline plays a bit different then online. Strangely, Valconian presents a better match up offline for me. There are a lot more variables to keep track of offline. When it comes to miss plays from you and your opponent, I feel an astute Valconion trainer can capitalize on those mistakes a bit better because of power heater. Power heater is an easy attack that can still capitalize the game board when you make a miss play.

Where the M Mew has a harder time to capitalize on miss plays because the attacks need more cards in play to make them work (Spirit Links, Shrine of Memories). If you miss play with Mew, which I've been playing for sometime, it's a bit harder to get it going again.

Online, the match up is tougher because miss plays don't happen as frequently. Offline, because there are many variables to keep in perspective, miss plays are more apparent.

It's just another part of the overall Pokemon strategy. It's the reason trainers should play decks their comfortable with offline and online before trying them at a tournament.
 
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