THE Durant thread: Durant NV.

SpeedDurant seems to be the most viable option of Durant, but if you're willing to sacrifice a little consistency Weavile is a great tech. Cards Mandatory for any Durant version (in my opinion) include (in no particulair order):

- Professor Juniper
- N (depends on personal preference, it could re-fill your opponent's deck if used incorrectly!)
- Twins
- Seeker
- Collector/Dual Ball
- Eviolite

Heck, a friend of mine even tested the ant with Potion, Moo Moo Milk, and Serperior (onviously combined with Sp Metal and Eviolite). While it sometimes makes it pretty hard for your opponent to KO a durant, my friend and I came to a simple conclusion; Durant wasn't meant to [strike]last[/strike] tank, just to go on to the quick mill, and keep the milling up (against all odds!). I must say Durant certainly lived up to my expectations(or even better), and I can safely state it has potential, even in the competitive area. It all depends on what you mill, and what you're up against.

I would also like to point out that against faster decks, Durant can simply win by keeping milling while your opponent burns trough their resources (any smart ''rush'' player will opt to burn less resources than normal of course), and depending on what you mill you can cripple their setup (or at least for a while). While your opponent keeps on taking prizes, it is important to stall as long as possible, and keep on milling for 4 every turn (5 if you count the draw on your opponent's next turn). Though unlikely, you could build up a ''tanker'' Durant later in the game, with an Eviolite and at least 2 Sp Metal to tank a little, and Defender can also aid you there. As long as any of your Durant can survive for 2 (or when lucky 3) turns before going down, you have a good chance at milling them out. It all comes down to timing, and what your opponent throws at you (but isn't that always an issue?).

Against slower decks you can easily win if you can disrupt them enough (mainly Catcher in my opinion, but of course it also depends on what you mill) early game, while you keep up the milling. For me, Gothitelle is only really a problem if they get up a trainer lock T2/3, otherwise you'll be milling most of their (precious) resources in no time. Watch out when that Gothitelle is fully charged though, as even your Durants will fall to Gothitelle once it goes on a rampage (Note that Gothitelle also requires the ''magic number'' 130 to OHKO your Durant at full health while sporting 1 Sp Metal Energy and an Eviolite. They WILL come prepared). Against other slower decks (like MagneBoar and The Truth/googlebox for example) Durant can do the same as when facing Gothitelle; just disrupt and Devour.

Other things I find important to mention:

While Slowking might look good on paper, think on what you're including. First of all, you'll be including a stage 1 which needs time to evolve (minor flaw for Durant). You'll also be adding more basic(s) to your deck, meaning more bad starts (lone Slowpoke), higher chance on Durant being prized, and even less room for techs (also minor to medium flaw for Durant). Now, however, comes the big deal breaker himself; you'll be milling the top 4 cards with Durant (or at least 3, or you're doing it wrong!!), what use does it have to re-arrange the top 3 cards of your opponent's deck?! ''Oh hey, I re-arrange your top 3 cards! Now I discard the top 4 of your deck! What? Why I first looked at your top 3? Well, to stall... I mean, euh...'' See what I mean? I don't want to sound harsh here, but Slowking is utter trash for the Durant deck, and no one should be thinking about including it! Yes, it's just that bad! Did I also already mention the risk it brings to your deck with it's 2 retreat cost and Catcher running everywhere in the format?

N is in my opinion a great card for Durant, but other people might not like it in their build. Just to clear this out, N is not mandatory in any Durant list. N is a great weapon to use, but only when timed correctly. Don't forget that late game, N could possibly re-fill your opponent's deck, meaning you'll just have to start milling more! Early game it can help greatly though, by disrupting your opponent's hand (and when versus a ''rush'' deck, you could possibly shrink their hand size early on, to force them into playing their refresh supporter, meaning they'll be drawing even more!). Just never forget the blade cuts on both sides; it can hinder your opponent, but it can also mean you're ''helping'' them by refueling their deck. Think before you act (a LOT of problems can be solved this way, not just Pokémon TCG issues)!

Also, as with N, don't over-estimate Twins in this deck. While it certainly is true Twins is the perfect partner for Durant (seeing as you won't be taking any prizes, normally seen), Durant can work without Twins as well. Surely, this doesn't hold true Durant shouldn't play any Twins, just don't grow too dependant on it! It is great to help you on the way, but don't wage everything on the two cute little girls!

A lot of people seem to like Weavile as an inclusion for the deck, and I can't blame them. I myself also like Weavile in the deck, but to me it has been proven that SpeeDurant >>>>> Durant+Weavile. Of course this is personal preference, but to me it proved to be more effective to start milling asap at all times is way better than plucking a single card from your opponent's hand. While it is true that one card can sometimes mean the difference between winning and losing, Weavile is not Im afraid. Weavile is a nice little ''extra'' for the deck, but in my opinion in no way mandatory. Factor in all the ''disadvantages'' for being a Stage 1 in a ''Basic'' deck (also seen on Slowking earlier), Weavile just doesn't seem to slice the cake the way he should in this deck. Don't be discouraged though, in my earlier builds of Durant Weavile was often a great help (not just it's power, but also because it's an all free retreater evo line as well), but just not as helpful as I hoped it to be. Personal preference, but I wouldn't include Weavile in the list unles you're really baffled on what to include otherwise.

While not a tech, I certainly think Reshiram is worth mentioning here. If your opponent plays ReshiPhlosion/TyRam, and they get a single Reshiram with 2 energy and in any way at least 3+ damage counters, that's GG for you. Your best bet would be dragging up front something that can't attack (most likely a Ninetails or some tech) to stall while you keep milling. I'm still trying to figure what to do against a decent fire deck (not just Reshiram, but fire in general), but to me it seems all you can do is hope you mill precious resources and keep disrupting. I'm yet to discover a near decent enough tech that greatly helps with any fire matchup. Do you guys have any, or is it simply an autoloss? (you're free to PM me your results as well, if you don't like them ''in public'' of course!)

A last thing I'll mention for now (you guys all think I typ to much, huh?) is Seeker. If you thought Seeker was designed to work with LostGar, you haven't played Durant yet. The only catch is, you'll need to have a perfect timing (or at least a decent amount of skill) to pull it off the way it is supposed to be. If you don't understand that last sentence, I suggest you start playtesting it. Like earlier, I can't stress enough that the timing of it however makes all the difference when playing it. Fore me Seeker certainly is a staple in (Spee)Durant! Try it for yourself and see!

This was James, signing off for now. I hope you guys got some helpful advice/tips from my post...!
 
I could see this working out, even competitively. If I would make a deck, this is what I think it would look like:

Pokemon (6):
4 Durant (pretty obvious)
1 Cleffa (if you ever, for any reason, have the worst hand ever)
1 Rotom (If you have a prized Durant)

Energy (8):
4 Special Metal
4 Metal

Trainers (46)
2 N (draw power)
4 Professor Juniper (^)
4 Twins (You should always be behind in prizes)
4 Revive (To get back a killed Durant)
4 Pokemon Collector (for consistent getting of Durants)
4 Dual Ball (^)
4 Junk Arm (staple)
4 Eviolite (to help keep them alive)
4 Catcher (Drag up high retreat pokemon and stall)
4 Defender (help to keep them alive)
3 Lost Remover (to help stall)
3 Crushing Hammer (^)
2 Alph Lithograph (hand in hand with Rotom)

You should also mulligan a lot, causing them to usually draw another card. I have seen Seeker mentioned, but I am unsure how it fits in this deck. I can also imagine this deck getting a lot of bad starts...
 
Some of these things you guys are mentioning have already been stated in the previous pages of this thread. Speed Durant is the best way to play Durant at all. Otherwise you are just not going to mill fast enough.
 
From some playtesting I've been doing, I've discovered this:

-I like a 2/2 split of PONT and N. They're both nice, but in some situations, PONT is just better. If your opponent has ~13 cards in his hand and deck total but a low hand, it's really nice to Twins for a PONT, mill with Durant, then next turn PONT and mill, having your opponent deck out.

-4 Juniper is the best.

-Rotom isn't necessary, but I guess it's nice to have. That said, this deck usually has matchups that are really bad or really good, so having that last Durant out isn't necessarily that important most of the time. But it's always fun to mill 4.

-I don't like Energy removal here– it puts less focus on your own deck and makes keeping 4 Durant out harder.

-I haven't tried Seeker. James, could you elaborate on how that works?

-Catcher can be a big help against TyRam if they have any Reshiram on the bench. I'd say 2 Catcher is a good number.

-PokéGear 3.0 is perfect in counts of 4. Getting the T1 Durant with that and 4 Collector as well as 4 Dual Ball and 4 Great Ball was pretty easy.

-SSU isn't necessarily the best. When you're being OHKO'd, you'll lose, when you're being 2HKO'd, you'll win. It's that simple. I guess some decks can use PlusPower to get the OHKO some of the time, but most of the time your opponent's crippled early or able to set up, and by that point, the KOs come at a constant rate.
 
Unless your playing Weavile, what good does Seeker do? It picks up Pokemon that your opponent can potentially use a PONT to put back into there deck. It is also a dead draw in the beginning of the game when trying for a quick Durant.
 
Catcher their Cleffa, Seeker their last bench, KO with Durant's second attack. Lol. But you're right - Seeker doesn't have much use. I'd prefer SSU with Weavile, since it can used on an active Durant, doesn't give your opponent cards, and can get you out of a Rotom start.

I don't like the Mime/Slowking version. It's a slower mill, and it introduces 2-retreat basics into the deck. Durant and Slowking have no synergy either. If I had to play that, I'd just add a couple Mime Jr with no Slowking. Why does it matter what you're milling with Mime? But I wouldn't want to play that version.
 
Not to mention by adding Slowking, you add Slowpoke which is a basic with a 2 retreat cost. That means less milling turns.
 
^Isn't that what I said? Mewgar deals with it by running 3-4 Switch, but it's just so dead in this deck. The T1 mill in here isn't as crucial as the T1 See Off, so it's justifiable in there. Here it's just a dead card, so Slowking is basically an 8-card investment. Too much.
 
I must have skipped that part.

And Slowking is bad it Mewgar too.

Also, the T1 mill is important. It's more cards your opponent can't use, and it's even better if you hit something important. It's also a turn were you can attack without worrying about having a Durant knocked out.
 
I think that the main problem with a deck that doesn't do damage is that when it comes down to it, you essentially have 6 turns after your opponent is set up to win the game, because if they're OHKOing your Durants, you will lose on prizes. Reshiphlosion, which is very popular, OHKOs Durant, and if even one Reshiram and Typhlosion gets into play, then they can endlessly KO you. You think you can lock them out of it, but every turn they can attach and Afterburner, until they have enough damage to just Outrage KO your Durants, and even then, if you don't run out of Durants, and don't get KO'd to death, you still don't take prizes and can lose on time. Based on this metagame, there isn't anything coming out soon or in NV that's going to make Reshiram decks unplayable, and sadly those decks could be more than 50% of your games at any given tournament.

The only really awesome card I think Durant has in its favor would probably be N, which when consistently played after you're down several prizes could give you the edge. The only problem is that you wouldn't guarantee they aren't rolling Durants over left and right.
 
Gliscor said:
Straight Durant >>> Durant/Mime Jr./any other milling tech. Durant provides a much stronger mill than Mime Jr, which is much more important because the deck isn't built around taking prizes. The faster you can deckout your opponent, the better.
Click to expand...

....When did I say put Mime Jr?! Mime Jr wouldn't be good here. It's just a slower Durant :/. I can see Slowking being a little bad but when you don't have 4 Durant's out....

What about Team Rocket's Trickery? Late game it can get rid of more cards when you need it. Weavile and TRT seems like it would work...so much hand discarding :p
 
Scizorliscious said:
-I haven't tried Seeker. James, could you elaborate on how that works?
Click to expand...

Well, I guess I myself have become too fond of my Seeker in my SpeeDurant, so maybe I praised it a little too much(or glorified it a little).

As Celebi23 stated, it can work in a ''donk'' kind of way, drag up any baby (or Solosis, or whatever for discussions sake), Seeker up their lone benched, and KO their last active.

Another way it helps you greatly is how your opponent plays. For me, most of my opponents kept their hand size big, dropping only the lines they needed the most, and leaving the rest in their hand to mainly refill their deck with cards like PONT and Judge, or even the odd N. I personally think this will be the main way most opponents will play against SpeeDurant, so in that case a well timed Catcher, along with a Seeker can delay your opponent a turn or two, buying you another 4 to 8 mill (or 5 to 10 if you count in the ''turn start draws'').

Of course, any opponent will play around this by dropping anything they will want to keep Seeker'ing, but that at the same time also means you have something else to drag up front with Catcher for more disruption. Not to forget that after PONT/Judge/N they might not be holding anything else to drop on their bench (though unlikely, but judge (no pun intended) your situation and make the right play), meaning your Seeker will be even more useful.

Even late game Seeker can win you games, as you might have milled all their other basics, disrupt with Catcher, and keep Seeker'ing their other pokémon for disruption. Simply delaying the attacks for 1 more turn is enough for your Seeker/Catcher to accomplish, as just another turn of milling can mean the difference between an entire outcome. Note that this last paragraph is more theorymon and quite situational, but it's not that farfetch'd if you count in a late game possibillity.

A final statement from me about Seeker is that my own list prefers 2/3-ish Seeker, and no more (or less for that account). Seeker opens up a lot of possibillities for Durant, and since you will most likely pick up (and drop it back right away) a Durant (or any other basic you might have), you will have little trouble from it yourself. Just keep in mind when you can use it, as sometimes you'll still want to use some other Supporter, or at some times Seeker will be just plain useless.

Once again, it's all personal preference, but what isn't? =D
 
Hm. I actually like that idea; what you say about the opponent putting down as little as possible is perfectly true.

However, I think that after one Seeker your opponent might be a little more careful about having at least 2 benched at all times. That's only one extra card out, so it still shouldn't make a huge difference. I guess Seeker is a good play when people aren't looking for it, but otherwise, it's sort of a dead card. I believe it's also better with Weavile than without, as well.
 
Has anyone thought of throwing in Palkia Dialga Legend in here along with a little more energy and flower shop lady/energy retrieval? It would be catcher bait for those extra two prizes, and discarding 7 energy for attack and retreat is quite a lot, you are still giving them two prizes. Would the pros justify the cons?

I agree that Speed Durant is the best but this card just came to mind to maybe make Durant last a little longer.
 
MetaArmor said:
Has anyone thought of throwing in Palkia Dialga Legend in here along with a little more energy and flower shop lady/energy retrieval? It would be catcher bait for those extra two prizes, and discarding 7 energy for attack and retreat is quite a lot, you are still giving them two prizes. Would the pros justify the cons?

I agree that Speed Durant is the best but this card just came to mind to maybe make Durant last a little longer.
Click to expand...

I've thought about PDL and I don't think it will be worth it if they are 1HKOing your Durants anyways; no matter how many prizes they have, either you are going to run out of Durants or run out of resources.
 
the aura is with me8 said:
I've thought about PDL and I don't think it will be worth it if they are 1HKOing your Durants anyways; no matter how many prizes they have, either you are going to run out of Durants or run out of resources.
Click to expand...

Yeah I figured. Even if you catcher something less threatening and sudden delete the previous active it probably wont help. Besides it has the worse weaknesses in this meta, just letting them take the 2 Prizes you have spent resources trying to add on. Well it was just a thought anyways.

Don't mind these post. Continue theorizing the speed durant :p
 
You add 2 prizes. Then after PDL is knocked out, those 2 prizes are taken. How does that change anything?
 
glaceon said:
You add 2 prizes. Then after PDL is knocked out, those 2 prizes are taken. How does that change anything?
Click to expand...

Well if you teched in some water energy (not advising this) you could use sudden delete which could stall a little bit, but really isn't super effective. And it takes up a turn or two for them to KO your PDL, and it mills their deck by sending them to the prize cards.

Still, I don't see this making a difference or even being effective. It's really not worth it in this deck, about as useful as Slowking imo.
 
It takes an extra turn and two cards out of the opponent's deck (prizes) besides the card they draw at the beginning of the time.

However, it's not worth the space– you should be using resources to keep Durant on the field.
 
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