RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Gym Series Live]
It also makes everyone win less than before...
It also makes everyone win less than before...
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TCG One TCG ONE General Discussion
- Thread starter axpendix
- Start date
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Gym Series Live]
I've rendered the participation and winning rewards a little less than before. When you compare it to other tcg like games, this is still -by far- the most generous one. What other tcg rewards you a booster pack after every 2-3 wins?
Moreover, quests will offer additional ways to earn.
I've rendered the participation and winning rewards a little less than before. When you compare it to other tcg like games, this is still -by far- the most generous one. What other tcg rewards you a booster pack after every 2-3 wins?
Moreover, quests will offer additional ways to earn.
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Gym Series Live]
Hi! It's bluecapricorn here!
I agree with others that previous point system was better.
Also I would like to ask in what situation we are able to earn 100 bits?
Hi! It's bluecapricorn here!
I agree with others that previous point system was better.
Also I would like to ask in what situation we are able to earn 100 bits?
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Gym Series Live]
Most I ever got was 64
Most I ever got was 64
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Gym Series Live]
Just because someone decks out shouldn't mean your opponent get more bits than you. It isn't fair to get a auto boost in bits
Just because someone decks out shouldn't mean your opponent get more bits than you. It isn't fair to get a auto boost in bits
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
Hello TCGONE players, and Axpendix.
I am here to give thoughtful feedback of my experiences with the game over the past couple of days. I have played the Pokemon TCG for several years, and have won and/or topped several events including FL regionals, US nats, and many cities. I'm also friends with some of the top recognizable players in the game, who I'm sure will gladly support the program if it gets smoothed out.
Let me begin by thanking Axpendix for dedicating so much time and effort to this program. His efforts are fantastic, and the program is very promising. In fact, I can see potential for it growing into the largest pokemon TCG simulator in the world.
Now, those things said, I'll share my experiences with you, (especially for you, Axpendix) because you are in charge, and care greatly for this game. Today, in the chat room, Admin really scolded the players: "[admin](21:27:35): i've tweaked scoring system, it's based on keeping 2nd accounts at bay. psi is not only one who does that, please do some comparisons to other tcg games when you're discussing rewarding system. i believe its already VERY generous."
[admin](21:29:03): i'm also disappointed to release neo series, players are too selfish
[admin](21:29:59): it seems gaining bits is the only real thing in this game.
[admin](21:30:12): that's all i got to say today,"
Well, first off, the Neo series is great! I've got a personal history and attachment with the Neo sets, so I'm extremely hyped to see them up for quickplay! Me and Psiqueatog played a couple of randomly generated decks against each other, and they were a lot of fun. Very minimal bugs (we reported the only one we came across). Even Slowking worked perfectly! (uh-oh.. is that a good thing?!) ;D
Now then, about the bits. Let me share this macro perspective.
Right now, there is a problem with the program. From Admin's chat messages, I can see he senses it, too. I know that others have been making suggestions such as "better decks for the new players," and "cracking down on farmers" or even banning certain player(s). None of those things are the answer.
As a person who is in love with these formats, I am surprised and sad to say that over the past couple days of playing on this program, I am feeling drained and demoralized. If I was a regular player (and not so in love with the old formats), I would log out, never come back, and stick with playtcg and PTCGO. The reason for this, is that it's too difficult to get good cards.
Axpendix's vision was to combine the best of both playtcg and ptcgo, and in many aspects, he's done that. However, when it comes to obtaining cards, the program is only utilizing the WORST aspects of those games, currently. It is very time consuming to earn enough bits to actually buy competitive cards. Since the player base is so small, competitive cards rarely even enter the market. What this means is that players are forced to buy packs with their hard earned bits, which makes it EXCEEDINGLY difficult to get playsets of competitive cards.
Axpendix is right in saying that his reward system is very generous compared to other online tcg games. However, there is something important to note, and that is: those other games have another way of obtaining cards, which is real life currency. I would MUCH rather drop 40$ for a good online deck than grind out 50 games at 15 minutes apiece with 2nd (or 3rd) rate cards, earning between 5 and 70 bits (with an average of probably 30 or so, or less depending on the decks faced), and then STILL not even having the cards I need to have a truly competitive deck.
The answer is not better decks for new players (though that is probably definitely needed too), nor is it charging money for bits, or banning the bit farmers. The answer is clearly balance, and MAKING THE BITS EASIER TO OBTAIN, all-around. Inflation will be kept at bay by the stationary pack prices. With a higher influx of bits, it would not be surprising to see high-demand cards like Rocket's Zapdos reach prices of 1,500 bits. But that is the way the game has always been, the high demand cards cost way more than the others. And if you consider Mewtwo EX and Yanmega Prime on PTCGO, at the height of their popularity they were both 12-15 packs each.
Targeting the farming is not the answer, AT ALL. Grinding for xp is a common theme in video games, and why anyone would want to make it any MORE difficult to obtain the sacred bits is beyond me. If someone wants to grind for 20 hours and earn 30,000 bits, who cares? Good for them! Also, this would help newer players a lot, if they decided to grind out a few levels to get reasonably competitive. Set pack prices would keep people who grind for many hours from monopolizing the market too much. Daily buy limits could also help if it became a problem, but I don't think it would. Also, private trades would all but make monopolies impossible, if and when private trading arrives.
Another issue is this:
"[Tash](20:16:40): there are only 12 blastoise in 1000 packs"
If this is true or ever close to true, that's not good for a program like this. That means that only THREE or FOUR players (at most!) will have a decent playset of Blastoise for every One-Hundred Thousand bits spent on Base Set packs. To put that in perspective, if the entire top 10 All Time high scores bought ONLY Base Set, odds are they would only have around 22 Blastoise in circulation. 22 Blastoise (or Rocket's Zapdos, or Slowking, or whatever) between even just 10 competitive players is simply not going to cut it if this program is going to take off. The game would need 3-4x that many AT LEAST (and probably more), in order to support a growing community, because whether it's actually 12 or 16 or even 20 per 1000, they'll come in at a slow trickle, and probably stay in peoples' hands for a long time (or forever).
One option is making the bits easier to obtain, and that's a necessity in my opinion no matter what.
Another option is putting single cards up for sale in the store. (especially competitive ones)
And yet another option still, is something experimental that came to me: making the competitive cards more common than non-competitive cards, in the packs. This would be good for both the players and the collectors. For collectors, their collection will be worth more (no longer would things like Nidoking just be a total junk rare), while the competitive player would be able to get the cards they need to play more easily. Just a thought.
The other suggestions I have heard will not fix the problem: better decks for new players, reducing the amount of bits players get from games, and targeting down bit farmers (who honestly would help the game right now if they bought packs and got more competitive cards in circulation). All those suggestions will only be a temporary solution AT BEST. At worst, such measures will deplete the energy of old players, and discourage new players from setting out on the long journey to getting good cards. Most people will not commit to a game that calls for 50+ hours of (let's be honest, occasionally dry and repetitive) gameplay, before they even have a chance (not guaranteed by any means) of having a truly competitive deck. That just sounds awful.
The simple truth is, nobody wants to get bogged down for hours on end with trying to earn painfully small amounts of bits. If this tcgone program is to combine the best of both PTCGO and playtcg, it's going to have to be easier to get bits.
Hello TCGONE players, and Axpendix.
I am here to give thoughtful feedback of my experiences with the game over the past couple of days. I have played the Pokemon TCG for several years, and have won and/or topped several events including FL regionals, US nats, and many cities. I'm also friends with some of the top recognizable players in the game, who I'm sure will gladly support the program if it gets smoothed out.
Let me begin by thanking Axpendix for dedicating so much time and effort to this program. His efforts are fantastic, and the program is very promising. In fact, I can see potential for it growing into the largest pokemon TCG simulator in the world.
Now, those things said, I'll share my experiences with you, (especially for you, Axpendix) because you are in charge, and care greatly for this game. Today, in the chat room, Admin really scolded the players: "[admin](21:27:35): i've tweaked scoring system, it's based on keeping 2nd accounts at bay. psi is not only one who does that, please do some comparisons to other tcg games when you're discussing rewarding system. i believe its already VERY generous."
[admin](21:29:03): i'm also disappointed to release neo series, players are too selfish
[admin](21:29:59): it seems gaining bits is the only real thing in this game.
[admin](21:30:12): that's all i got to say today,"
Well, first off, the Neo series is great! I've got a personal history and attachment with the Neo sets, so I'm extremely hyped to see them up for quickplay! Me and Psiqueatog played a couple of randomly generated decks against each other, and they were a lot of fun. Very minimal bugs (we reported the only one we came across). Even Slowking worked perfectly! (uh-oh.. is that a good thing?!) ;D
Now then, about the bits. Let me share this macro perspective.
Right now, there is a problem with the program. From Admin's chat messages, I can see he senses it, too. I know that others have been making suggestions such as "better decks for the new players," and "cracking down on farmers" or even banning certain player(s). None of those things are the answer.
As a person who is in love with these formats, I am surprised and sad to say that over the past couple days of playing on this program, I am feeling drained and demoralized. If I was a regular player (and not so in love with the old formats), I would log out, never come back, and stick with playtcg and PTCGO. The reason for this, is that it's too difficult to get good cards.
Axpendix's vision was to combine the best of both playtcg and ptcgo, and in many aspects, he's done that. However, when it comes to obtaining cards, the program is only utilizing the WORST aspects of those games, currently. It is very time consuming to earn enough bits to actually buy competitive cards. Since the player base is so small, competitive cards rarely even enter the market. What this means is that players are forced to buy packs with their hard earned bits, which makes it EXCEEDINGLY difficult to get playsets of competitive cards.
Axpendix is right in saying that his reward system is very generous compared to other online tcg games. However, there is something important to note, and that is: those other games have another way of obtaining cards, which is real life currency. I would MUCH rather drop 40$ for a good online deck than grind out 50 games at 15 minutes apiece with 2nd (or 3rd) rate cards, earning between 5 and 70 bits (with an average of probably 30 or so, or less depending on the decks faced), and then STILL not even having the cards I need to have a truly competitive deck.
The answer is not better decks for new players (though that is probably definitely needed too), nor is it charging money for bits, or banning the bit farmers. The answer is clearly balance, and MAKING THE BITS EASIER TO OBTAIN, all-around. Inflation will be kept at bay by the stationary pack prices. With a higher influx of bits, it would not be surprising to see high-demand cards like Rocket's Zapdos reach prices of 1,500 bits. But that is the way the game has always been, the high demand cards cost way more than the others. And if you consider Mewtwo EX and Yanmega Prime on PTCGO, at the height of their popularity they were both 12-15 packs each.
Targeting the farming is not the answer, AT ALL. Grinding for xp is a common theme in video games, and why anyone would want to make it any MORE difficult to obtain the sacred bits is beyond me. If someone wants to grind for 20 hours and earn 30,000 bits, who cares? Good for them! Also, this would help newer players a lot, if they decided to grind out a few levels to get reasonably competitive. Set pack prices would keep people who grind for many hours from monopolizing the market too much. Daily buy limits could also help if it became a problem, but I don't think it would. Also, private trades would all but make monopolies impossible, if and when private trading arrives.
Another issue is this:
"[Tash](20:16:40): there are only 12 blastoise in 1000 packs"
If this is true or ever close to true, that's not good for a program like this. That means that only THREE or FOUR players (at most!) will have a decent playset of Blastoise for every One-Hundred Thousand bits spent on Base Set packs. To put that in perspective, if the entire top 10 All Time high scores bought ONLY Base Set, odds are they would only have around 22 Blastoise in circulation. 22 Blastoise (or Rocket's Zapdos, or Slowking, or whatever) between even just 10 competitive players is simply not going to cut it if this program is going to take off. The game would need 3-4x that many AT LEAST (and probably more), in order to support a growing community, because whether it's actually 12 or 16 or even 20 per 1000, they'll come in at a slow trickle, and probably stay in peoples' hands for a long time (or forever).
One option is making the bits easier to obtain, and that's a necessity in my opinion no matter what.
Another option is putting single cards up for sale in the store. (especially competitive ones)
And yet another option still, is something experimental that came to me: making the competitive cards more common than non-competitive cards, in the packs. This would be good for both the players and the collectors. For collectors, their collection will be worth more (no longer would things like Nidoking just be a total junk rare), while the competitive player would be able to get the cards they need to play more easily. Just a thought.
The other suggestions I have heard will not fix the problem: better decks for new players, reducing the amount of bits players get from games, and targeting down bit farmers (who honestly would help the game right now if they bought packs and got more competitive cards in circulation). All those suggestions will only be a temporary solution AT BEST. At worst, such measures will deplete the energy of old players, and discourage new players from setting out on the long journey to getting good cards. Most people will not commit to a game that calls for 50+ hours of (let's be honest, occasionally dry and repetitive) gameplay, before they even have a chance (not guaranteed by any means) of having a truly competitive deck. That just sounds awful.
The simple truth is, nobody wants to get bogged down for hours on end with trying to earn painfully small amounts of bits. If this tcgone program is to combine the best of both PTCGO and playtcg, it's going to have to be easier to get bits.
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
The quests will probably fix the majority of the complaints with the new bit system. There's just a lot of hell about it right now since it's the only way in the game to get anything. (earlier this afternoon there was only one opponent, who was intentionally using a bad, low-point deck. If I won, I got 7 points. If I held back, I got spammed by disruption. If I switched to a weaker deck, I'd inevitably be paired up against someone using a decent deck who just popped up. I got paired up with him like 10 games in a row)
Hopefully quests and achievements will help ease the frustration situations like that cause.
The quests will probably fix the majority of the complaints with the new bit system. There's just a lot of hell about it right now since it's the only way in the game to get anything. (earlier this afternoon there was only one opponent, who was intentionally using a bad, low-point deck. If I won, I got 7 points. If I held back, I got spammed by disruption. If I switched to a weaker deck, I'd inevitably be paired up against someone using a decent deck who just popped up. I got paired up with him like 10 games in a row)
Hopefully quests and achievements will help ease the frustration situations like that cause.
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
Appendix, if you haven't realized, Psiqueatog tricked you again to adding this system and the Person who Tash was talking about was him. You just helped him get more points easily,
Appendix, if you haven't realized, Psiqueatog tricked you again to adding this system and the Person who Tash was talking about was him. You just helped him get more points easily,
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
AuburnSky and Landis are purposely farming because of AuburnSky's last post
AuburnSky and Landis are purposely farming because of AuburnSky's last post
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
Look Eevee, I know you and perhaps others think farming "ruins the game." But in reality it would make cards more accessible for everyone. Or do you think it should be so difficult to get competitive cards that no-one can play a top notch deck?
In all the games I've played and watched over the past couple of days, I've not seen a single full-fledged tournament worthy deck.
Earlier today, I said I was looking for things like "[AuburnSky](01:40:39): 3 hit, 3 scyth, 4 buzz, 1 chans.. 4-3 ER-SER...
[AuburnSky](01:40:47): No-one has played something like that"
..and you said..
"[TheEevee](01:41:06): CAUSE NOBODY HAS MORE THAN 2 BUZZ
[AuburnSky](01:41:24): Exhibit A
[AuburnSky](01:41:34): haha"
For NONE of the several top players who all have over 20,000 bits to own more than two Electabuzz.. is just ridiculous. If the competitive cards are not easier to come by, the career mode will be overly cut-throat and not conducive to bringing in new players. It's like everyone is in poverty! There's such a shortage of everything.. bits, competitive cards, and of course (in the early stage of this program) players. No wonder people are starting to bite each other! Thankfully, like Tash said, we all know Admin cares about us and the game, and is making every effort to help it thrive.
(btw, I played against that annoying deck today, Tash. It WAS really annoying! But it might've done okay in the Prop 3/15 format)
I'm all for creative decks. I love creative decks. But there has always been a place for that sort of thing in the Pokemon TCG. Sometimes the ideas make it big (like google Cawthon's Truth deck) and sometimes they fall short (like Charizard/Electrode).
Look Eevee, I know you and perhaps others think farming "ruins the game." But in reality it would make cards more accessible for everyone. Or do you think it should be so difficult to get competitive cards that no-one can play a top notch deck?
In all the games I've played and watched over the past couple of days, I've not seen a single full-fledged tournament worthy deck.
Earlier today, I said I was looking for things like "[AuburnSky](01:40:39): 3 hit, 3 scyth, 4 buzz, 1 chans.. 4-3 ER-SER...
[AuburnSky](01:40:47): No-one has played something like that"
..and you said..
"[TheEevee](01:41:06): CAUSE NOBODY HAS MORE THAN 2 BUZZ
[AuburnSky](01:41:24): Exhibit A
[AuburnSky](01:41:34): haha"
For NONE of the several top players who all have over 20,000 bits to own more than two Electabuzz.. is just ridiculous. If the competitive cards are not easier to come by, the career mode will be overly cut-throat and not conducive to bringing in new players. It's like everyone is in poverty! There's such a shortage of everything.. bits, competitive cards, and of course (in the early stage of this program) players. No wonder people are starting to bite each other! Thankfully, like Tash said, we all know Admin cares about us and the game, and is making every effort to help it thrive.
(btw, I played against that annoying deck today, Tash. It WAS really annoying! But it might've done okay in the Prop 3/15 format)
I'm all for creative decks. I love creative decks. But there has always been a place for that sort of thing in the Pokemon TCG. Sometimes the ideas make it big (like google Cawthon's Truth deck) and sometimes they fall short (like Charizard/Electrode).
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
Like I said why do you need to use Haymaker. And everyone thinks this point system is bad only because Quests are not added.
Winners should get more bits no matter what!!! (Except Deckouts) Now many times I will get less than my opponent even though 1 won
Like I said why do you need to use Haymaker. And everyone thinks this point system is bad only because Quests are not added.
Winners should get more bits no matter what!!! (Except Deckouts) Now many times I will get less than my opponent even though 1 won
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
I got a third Electabuzz today. Just sayin'.
And I used to play Haymaker, but I stopped because it got too many complaints about being too strong (I also don't run SER anymore for this reason. If you don't cave into people once in a while, you end up like Psi). Actually, the only reason I run Gastly/Chansey is because the Haymaker Pokemon can't deal with it effectively.
I got a third Electabuzz today. Just sayin'.
And I used to play Haymaker, but I stopped because it got too many complaints about being too strong (I also don't run SER anymore for this reason. If you don't cave into people once in a while, you end up like Psi). Actually, the only reason I run Gastly/Chansey is because the Haymaker Pokemon can't deal with it effectively.
Also, that's Jungle Haymaker. It kind of died after Fossil was released because Magmar worked better in mirror matches than Electabuzz. The Jungle version is just the most commonly remembered due to being printed in the official TCG handbook. (there was also a pre-Jungle version that used Farfetch'd, but nobody remembers that) Poor Magmar almost never gets mentioned, despite being just as common.
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
Hey guys,
I've read all your discussion yesterday and I know it's hard to thrive from nothing and there are problems accessing competitive cards. There are some reasons and excuses for that.
First of all, career mode is only 45 days old. I planned it as a permanent system that balances itself with time as we tweak it when it fits. Treat it as the release of Base Set back in 1999, so prices and rewards need to stabilize. However I agree that it should also allow new players to thrive.
Making 'truly competitive' decks generally means haymaker in current available format. If anyone who spends couple of days could build that, then what will be the point afterwards? Plus, there's always quickplay available for that.
As some people are aware, I have been tweaking scoring system with every update in past few days. It is still experimental. Some people also think the old system was good. In the old system grinders could earn 60 bits under 3 minute games, which was not fair to people that play 10 minutes against real strong opponents to get 10. So it was promoting 2nd accounts. Now, time is valued as you could've found out and more time spent means more rewards. I also weakened effect of Psi's system.
In short, game now favors good long matches instead of quickies. I am always open to any suggestion that consist of formulas for gaining bits.
Some quick announcements: Quickplay games will now award bits but divided in 2. I'll be also increasing bit rewards in general.
Hey guys,
I've read all your discussion yesterday and I know it's hard to thrive from nothing and there are problems accessing competitive cards. There are some reasons and excuses for that.
First of all, career mode is only 45 days old. I planned it as a permanent system that balances itself with time as we tweak it when it fits. Treat it as the release of Base Set back in 1999, so prices and rewards need to stabilize. However I agree that it should also allow new players to thrive.
Making 'truly competitive' decks generally means haymaker in current available format. If anyone who spends couple of days could build that, then what will be the point afterwards? Plus, there's always quickplay available for that.
As some people are aware, I have been tweaking scoring system with every update in past few days. It is still experimental. Some people also think the old system was good. In the old system grinders could earn 60 bits under 3 minute games, which was not fair to people that play 10 minutes against real strong opponents to get 10. So it was promoting 2nd accounts. Now, time is valued as you could've found out and more time spent means more rewards. I also weakened effect of Psi's system.
In short, game now favors good long matches instead of quickies. I am always open to any suggestion that consist of formulas for gaining bits.
Some quick announcements: Quickplay games will now award bits but divided in 2. I'll be also increasing bit rewards in general.
RE: TCG ONE - full featured online pokemon TCG simulator [Neo Series Live]
15 seconds match What do you want? 30 points for that?
You got 40 points overpowering me with your deck full of if, er, aero, chansey,oak,cs gusts,lass, erika's, well.. much of the best but SER cause is not necessary.
People is just annoyed cause as base points are less, overall bits have been reduced. And the decking out thing we try to fix.
Moving away from the bits thing:
The best way to get fun while slowly improving would be matching according to level or decklevel. That cant happen now, so people want the best decks fast. As i said once 2 options matching (playing agaisnt any level, or playing agaisnt +15 -15 level) would be good and doesnt spoil anything. But well, appart from that, what solutions we have:
1- Giving more. Must be done with achievements, match rewards or whatever... ¿Problems? Old players not having goals and leave. This is why i defend the idea of some EPIC cards that we would like to get/collect but doesnt mean overpower (due to lvl matching / bits balance system). Later could be essential in tourneys that you can use the best cards with no limit, fun for advanced players.
I know some might not agree with making "epic" cards. I pay attention to what you might say about this matter (the only idea i dont respect now is no balancing).
2- No more ideas come to my mind xD
PD: I like the quickplay reward idea ^^ Thanks axpendix for all
Thanks Auburn for your opinion ^^
Thanks Tash for testing. You know much about the game and you help much. Just please change your attitude. Return the favour helping to do an enjoyable site.
Dont mislead people. If you get 7 points it is cause you just put Erika and won in the first turn.Tash said:
15 seconds match What do you want? 30 points for that?
You got 40 points overpowering me with your deck full of if, er, aero, chansey,oak,cs gusts,lass, erika's, well.. much of the best but SER cause is not necessary.
Without the system you would have got even more. It's obvious a balance was needed whether you like it or not. And i am sad to see it is reduced.AuburnSky said:
People is just annoyed cause as base points are less, overall bits have been reduced. And the decking out thing we try to fix.
Moving away from the bits thing:
The best way to get fun while slowly improving would be matching according to level or decklevel. That cant happen now, so people want the best decks fast. As i said once 2 options matching (playing agaisnt any level, or playing agaisnt +15 -15 level) would be good and doesnt spoil anything. But well, appart from that, what solutions we have:
1- Giving more. Must be done with achievements, match rewards or whatever... ¿Problems? Old players not having goals and leave. This is why i defend the idea of some EPIC cards that we would like to get/collect but doesnt mean overpower (due to lvl matching / bits balance system). Later could be essential in tourneys that you can use the best cards with no limit, fun for advanced players.
I know some might not agree with making "epic" cards. I pay attention to what you might say about this matter (the only idea i dont respect now is no balancing).
2- No more ideas come to my mind xD
PD: I like the quickplay reward idea ^^ Thanks axpendix for all
Thanks Auburn for your opinion ^^
Thanks Tash for testing. You know much about the game and you help much. Just please change your attitude. Return the favour helping to do an enjoyable site.