Help TCG Attack order

[EBP]

I am new to this site and to Pokemon in general. My daughter has an interest, so my wife and I are learning to play, too. At the moment, we play within our family, and we play unlimited, for now. I have a quick question.

When a Pokemon has an attack with instructions, what do you apply first? The damage or the instruction? More specifically, Hoopa EX XY85 attack Wonder Trick has an attack value of 100 and instructions that say "Your opponent switches his or her Active Pokemon with 1 of his or her Benched Pokemon". Is the 100 damage applied to the opponent's 1st Pokemon or the replacement Pokemon coming from the bench?

 

[Otaku]

From page 20 of the rule book:

Full details of attacking

For most attacks, the order in which you do things doesn’t really matter. However, for a complicated attack, here are the full steps:

A) Look at your Pokémon and decide which attack to use. Make sure you have the correct Energy attached. Then, announce you are using that attack.

B) Apply any effects that might alter or cancel the attack. For example, if an attack that was used against your Pokémon last turn says, “If the Defending Pokémon tries to attack during your opponent’s next turn, your opponent flips a coin. If tails, that attack doesn’t happen.” (But remember—if an Active Pokémon moves to the Bench, all effects of attacks go away. So if your Active Pokémon has changed since your opponent used the attack in this example, you don’t have to flip a coin.)

C) If your Active Pokémon is Confused, check now to see if its attack doesn’t happen.

D) Make any choices the attack requires you to make. For example, if an attack says, “Choose 1 of your opponent’s Benched Pokémon,” you would make that choice now.

E) Do anything the attack requires you to do to use it. For example, you must flip a coin if an attack says “Flip a coin. If tails, this attack does nothing.”

F) Apply any effects that happen before damage, then place damage counters, and then do all other effects.

Figuring out how many damage counters to place is usually straightforward. However, if many things are changing the damage, follow these steps in this order:

1) Start with the base damage printed to the right of the attack. If an ×, –, or + is printed next to it, the attack text will tell you how much damage to do. If an attack tells you to put damage counters on a Pokémon, you have no more calculations to do because damage counters aren’t affected by Weakness, Resistance, or any other effects on a Pokémon. Just put those damage counters on the affected Pokémon!

2) Figure out damage effects on your Active Pokémon based on Trainer cards or any other relevant effects. For example, if your Pokémon used an attack last turn that said, “During your next turn, this Pokémon’s attacks do 40 more damage(before applying Weakness and Resistance),” then add that in. Stop if the base damage is 0 (or if the attack does not do anydamage at all). Otherwise, keep going.

3) Increase the damage by the amount next to your opponent’s Active Pokémon’s Weakness, if it has Weakness to your Active Pokémon’s type.

4) Reduce the damage by the amount next to your opponent’s Active Pokémon’s Resistance, if it has Resistance to your Active Pokémon’s type.

5) Figure out damage effects of Trainer or Energy cards, or other effects on your opponent’s Active Pokémon. For example, if your opponent’s Active Pokémon has an Ability that says “This Pokémon takes 20 less damage from attacks (after applying Weakness and Resistance).”

6) For each 10 damage of the final attack, put 1 damage counter on the affected Pokémon. If the damage is 0 or less, don’t put on any damage counters.
​

Hmm... not as clear as I'd hoped. The attack isn't worded in a way that makes you switch then do damage, so it follows the usual rules; do the damage, then the effects of the attack. Just remember, the older the cards, the more confusing the wording can be.

I don't know how much it will help, but here is where you can find some more information on the official website, including a .pdf of the latest rule book:

https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/about/tournaments-rules-and-resources/

 

[EBP]

Thank you for the insight. I agree about older cards are sometimes tough to understand. I suspected that your understanding to apply damage before the swap may be correct. Unfortunately, in this particular instance, it is almost like a free retreat for the opponent to move their damaged Pokemon to the bench. I'll take some time to check out the link, too.

Thank you

 

[Otaku]

Pardon me as I'm about to get long winded, as the question is already answered, but there's some other stuff you might want to know about getting into Pokémon. There is a long section about how you might want to ease into the game, but I'll put it behind spoiler tags.

Unfortunately, in this particular instance, it is almost like a free retreat for the opponent to move their damaged Pokemon to the bench.

Aye. That Hoopa-EX isn't known as a good card. I think the effect is supposed to be beneficial, but it didn't work out that way. Some less damaging attacks have a similar effect, but they're also less expensive. They're still not great, but sometimes come in handy because you're using them sooner, when your opponent is less likely to have another attacker ready to go, maybe even nothing on the Bench except for things they want to stay on the Bench.

There's another Hoopa-EX that was a great card in its day, and still has some use now: Hoopa-EX (XY - Ancient Origins 36/98, 89/98; XY - Black Star Promos XY71). Its claim to fame is its "Scoundrel Ring" Ability; when you play it from your hand, onto your Bench, during your turn, you can search your deck for up to three Pokémon-EX to add to your hand (excluding cards named Hoopa-EX).

When you say you're playing in the Unlimited Format, do you mean the Unlimited Format, or the "We use whatever cards we have and that ain't many" kind of Unlimited most of us began with? I'm guessing the latter, but I just wanted to warn you that, if you do start getting a lot of older cards, there's a curious thing. Some are hopelessly weak when compared to the modern stuff, but some of the old stuff is actually insanely strong. That includes cases where cards that weren't a big deal separately create a "broken" (damaging to game balance and general game enjoyment) combo.

Spoiler

Given the learning curve, even if you turn around and tell me that your daughter, your wife, and yourself are all adults, you might consider getting some of the Theme Decks from the past year or two, and just using those against each other, without altering them. It isn't perfectly balanced, but the PTCGO has a Theme Format, which only allows Theme Decks (and even then, not those that include multi-Prize Pokémon or other advanced mechanics). If you don't know what the PTCGO, that's the Pokémon Trading Card Game Online. It is a free-to-play online game from The Pokémon Company, and it actually lives up to the term. You cannot spend money directly on the PTCGO; you can redeem Redemption Codes you get from Redemption Code Cards you get in booster packs, Theme Decks, gift boxes, etc. Otherwise, you can just play and complete in game challenges (including winning in general XP) to earn in-game rewards.

Anyway, I am saying it is a decent way to learn the game, and even a decent way to play online. Even if you're not interested, it can help to know that there is a small market for those Redemption Code cards you'll be getting when you buy unopened product from the last 10 years. It is also how I know that the

• Relentless Flame
• Torrential Cannon
• Soaring Storm
• Laser Focus
• Towering Heights
• Unseen Depths
• Rillaboom Theme Deck
• Zamazenta Theme Deck
• Galarian Sirfetch'd Theme Deck
• Charizard Theme Deck

are all reasonably well balanced against each other, at least in the Theme Format. Theme Decks aren't good for Standard, Expanded, or Unlimited Format play. For new players, it lets you learn and play the game without diving into the deep end of designing your own deck or grappling with advanced gameplay elements. Theme decks are not built the way competitive decks are; they're still 60 card decks, but will usually have more like 20 Pokémon, 20 Trainers, and 20 Energy cards. Competitive decks for the Standard and Expanded Formats rarely come out like that, having fewer Pokémon, fewer Energy, but more Trainer cards. 15-30-15 is more likely, and even 10-40-10 isn't uncommon, give or take a few cards.

You will get some cards useful for Standard and Expanded, though. Usually nothing too hard to get, but sometimes pretty important (like Professor's Research).

 

[EBP]

Great reply and thank you for taking the time to add it.

Naturally, my wife and I are adults, and my daughter is 9. My daughter showed an interest in the TCG, so her grandmother started blindly buying used cards at yard sales and flea markets. Out of curiosity, I started researching, and learning to the point that I wanted to try playing the game, too. My wife then joined in. For my daughter's birthday, we purchased a couple theme decks, elite trainer box, and a few singles. Since then, we have purchased many more. Now each of us have several decks, and we play family tournaments. My wife loves UNO, Monopoly, etc., and I can't stand any of them, but we come together nicely for this (and are bitterly competitive, lol).

We went with unlimited, since we had a wide array of cards initially, and don't have a desire to play competitively outside of our home. Most of our cards are from the "Sun and Moon" and "Sword and Shield" eras, but we have more beyond that.

Since we have been playing a few months, we occasionally have a question such as the one above about which acts first, the damage or the instructions. Usually, I can search online and find the answer, but I had no success with that one. I figured that this site could be a good resource.

 

[Otaku]

I figured that this site could be a good resource.

Yup. Another to remember is PokéGym, specifically the Rulings Compendium. The short version is that at least some of the people who own/operate the 'Gym are part of the English Rules Team. They compile official rules, and are authorized to give them due to this relationship (you can submit questions in another section of the site).

Play the game how you like. As you gave more details, I hope you can tolerate a little more meddling advice...

The true Unlimited Format is vicious. Even if you're missing the cards that make the First Turn Win (or First Turn Lock) decks function, there are some crazy good cards likely to throw game balance out the window. Especially if the bulk of your cards are from the SM and SW eras, maybe consider Expanded. If you already have and don't like it, no worries! XD I just wanted you to know there is an option besides Standard (currently SW - Team Up and later releases) and Unlimited (more or less everything is legal). The Expanded Format allows cards from the Black & White series and after, though it does have a Banned List.

Again, if you don't care, I get it. I just wanted to be sure. Happy gaming!

 

[EBP]

As we learn and develop knowledge and strategies, then perhaps we may tune our game play towards Expanded. Even with our limited knowledge, we can see that there are a few potentially strong combinations of cards that could throw the balance of powers out.