News 'Sun and Moon Strengthening Expansion Pack'
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
MY EVALUATIONS
- Vikavolt-GX - I like this attack! A stage 2 attacker, better with SM Vikavolt that charges energy. The GX move, I don't agree too much
There are so few decks that run more than 2 shaymin, and almost all of them accelerate faster than this would. Garbage card that nobody is going to run, unless you get something like energy switch or max elixir hits, this card is going to see no play.
If it was a big basic like generic EXs, it wouldn't be so bad, but you need 3 turns to power this thing up, and that's even with a lucky Wally start or rare candy
I know right? If only there was some kind of card that would fit in a Vikavolt deck that would allow you search your deck for a [G] Energy and a [L] Energy and attach them to your Pokemon in any way you like. Every turn. two for each one you have set up.
Shame, probably best write it off as pure garbage.
Shame, probably best write it off as pure garbage.
I feel the need to remind everyone that going into a Sun/Moon format where the format will be slower and evolution based, a GX attack that puts 60 damage on all your opponent's Pokemon will ko those evolving basics under 70 HP and place everything else in OHKO range. That is a very powerful attack. You newcomers to Pokemon have been very spoiled by card designed since the beginning of Black and White. Time to git gud at the game now!
If you have to attack a Pokémon two times to knock it out then it isn't a OHKO. Knock out and OHKO aren't the same thing.
Kinda ridiculous, but this is how I see Vikavolt and Vikavolt-GX can be played.
Step 1: Put down 2 Grubbin. Make sure 1 is in the active.
Step 2: Play Forest of giant plants
Step 3: Evolve both into Charjabug. Attach an energy of anykind (or even a DCE) to your active and then end your turn
Step 4: Evolve your active Charjabug into Vikavolt-GX, and your other Charjabug into Vikavolt.
Step 5: Put a Wide Lens (from Roaring Skies) onto Vikavolt-GX. This card will make attack to the bench affected by weakness and Resistance.
Step 6: Use Vikavolt's Strong Charge ability to attach a Grass and Lightning energy to Vikavolt-GX. Attach another energy from your hand if you didn't use DCE last turn.
Step 7: Use Gigatron-GX.
Step 8: Knock Out all Shaymin-EX your opponent has on their bench since they have weakness to Lightning and 60*2 = 120 damage > Shaymin-EX's 110HP
Step 9: Take 2 prize cards for each Shaymin you've knocked out!
Step 1: Put down 2 Grubbin. Make sure 1 is in the active.
Step 2: Play Forest of giant plants
Step 3: Evolve both into Charjabug. Attach an energy of anykind (or even a DCE) to your active and then end your turn
Step 4: Evolve your active Charjabug into Vikavolt-GX, and your other Charjabug into Vikavolt.
Step 5: Put a Wide Lens (from Roaring Skies) onto Vikavolt-GX. This card will make attack to the bench affected by weakness and Resistance.
Step 6: Use Vikavolt's Strong Charge ability to attach a Grass and Lightning energy to Vikavolt-GX. Attach another energy from your hand if you didn't use DCE last turn.
Step 7: Use Gigatron-GX.
Step 8: Knock Out all Shaymin-EX your opponent has on their bench since they have weakness to Lightning and 60*2 = 120 damage > Shaymin-EX's 110HP
Step 9: Take 2 prize cards for each Shaymin you've knocked out!
Semantics
Vikavolt-GX...
How I'd play it: 4 Max Potion, 4 DCE, some Assault vests, Balloons, Rough Seas, and other protection. Charge beam keeps doing 50 Damage and reattaching DCE's out of the discard, and the high HP walls opponents until the big 180 blast - or the Crazy 60 damage bench spread. Then Espeon-EX to devolve the opponent's GX's to induce KO's
Of course, the real trick will be setting everything up... Maybe a Talonflame engine could work well here.
How I'd play it: 4 Max Potion, 4 DCE, some Assault vests, Balloons, Rough Seas, and other protection. Charge beam keeps doing 50 Damage and reattaching DCE's out of the discard, and the high HP walls opponents until the big 180 blast - or the Crazy 60 damage bench spread. Then Espeon-EX to devolve the opponent's GX's to induce KO's
Of course, the real trick will be setting everything up... Maybe a Talonflame engine could work well here.
OOOhhh Yeah! Man I love Absol artworks, maybe I can make a deck out of this.
Your first point is moot because unless they come out in the weeks after Sun and Moon is released and say, "Sun and moon only", the format is going to still be X&Y, not to mention not every regional is standard format. Some are expanded. Your second point is also moot because you're using an unrealistic scenario of your imaginary opponent has 4 straight turns of dead draws while you hit everything you need. Slow meta or not, there are still big basics out there and they are going to be punishing your take 4 turns to use a situational move strat.
The irony in this is that you call everyone that dislikes this card 'newcomers' that have been 'very spoiled' by the BW and beyond meta, and tell us to 'git gud'. When it is really you that should 'git gud' and realize that this isn't a good card.
Gee, relying on a stage 2 evo to power up another stage 2 evo, oh and both share the same evo line! Which means at best you can get away with running something along the lines of 4-4-2/2. What could possibly go wrong with a deck like that?
This isn't like BREAK evos, where you don't have to split a line between vanilla card and BREAK evolution.
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The game is moving on to a Sun and Moon format, regardless of what format we currently have. They aren't making BW/XY cards anymore except the few remaining Mega Evolved Pokemon boxes and all SM sets will be made with SM sets in mind. While EX Pokemon will be in the format for at least 3 more years, the game by then would have moved on to GX attackers. I do believe the next rotation will be Evolutions on since it isn't an unbalanced set but I do expect it to be a very harsh rotation that forces players to move on from badly designed cards.
I never made a claim. I just said an attack that can KO most evolving Basic Pokemon in one turn is a good attack. You do know Vikavolt has two cards right? A GX and a normal stage 2. You also know the normal stage 2 has an ability that gets a grass and lightning Energy out of the deck to attach to a Pokemon right? You do know that Vikavolt-GX can use a DCE right? You do know that Vikavolt (both) can ise FoGP right? You do know all of this can happen on your second turn right and you can get one powered up that same turn right? You do know that a GX attack that does 60 damage to all Pokemon will KO any evolving Pokemon under 70 HP right and that cards like Sycamore and Shaymin still exist? Even with big basic, 60 on everything with the ability to use Wide Lens to put 120 on every Lightning weak Pokemon is a huge deal.
You call it what you want but when I hear players complaining about how to play without a Professor Sycamore effect on the new cards, I can call them newcomers who were spoiled by card design. That isn't meant to be something to take offense to. The whole git gud thing is a joke but I felt the meme was justified but there is some truth to it. You can't draw 30 cards a turn to get a OHKO on something anymore. now you have to actually play the game, hence "git gud" and judging by what you said above, you do need to "git gud" if you can't even see simple card interactions and why a 60 damage spread attack is good.
On the other note, I don't know what your problem is with me and you seems to have a problem with everything I say. I don't care for a argument or what beef you have with me. I have never done anything to you
There what a format where 4-4-2/2 or other numbers were legit lines. Gardevoir and Gallade was one such deck and Pokemon LV.X forces players to run 3-1 or 2-2 lines and had more restrictions than cards now do and those were some skill intense formats. Nothing went wrong at all.
This is where the Git Gud part comes in. This is what balance is Vikavolt and Vikavolt-GX are different cards but you can only have four of the basics in play. You have to pick and choose.
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Again this is a situational attack, what happens to your wide lens when you play against a trevenant break or other item lock deck in an expanded deck? Guess what? No Wide Lens. Oh and lets not forget about tool scrapper, xerosic, and breakpoint yveltal. Your point on "huge deal" is only useful if your opponent is running shaymins, which again, is going to outpace vikavolt unless it's some toad variant.
Except it's not good. 4 energy to do 60 damage to everything without applying weakness is terrible. If this were an EX every single person would be saying this attack is terrible. And if you say, "But vanilla vikavolt helps accelerate energy onto it." again, then we have nothing more to discuss. This conversation will just go in one giant circle discussing.
My "problem" with you, is that you're a hypocrite. If you really hated B&W and beyond meta, then you would've quit playing the TCG years ago. Yet here you are, celebrating every new card that isn't an EX or a reprint. And don't say you didn't hate it, we both know you did or you wouldn't keep complaining about it every chance you get.
Except that deck came from the extreme opposite meta in both standard and expanded than there is right now. Back then, tacking 4 turns to power up was normal, now? If you're taking 4 turns to power up, you better be hoping your opponent is dead drawing too or you're screwed.
I made it a point to not say Shaymin-EX.
If there were a Pokemon-EX that could deal 60 damage to every Pokemon for a [L][C][C][C] every turn with the aid of Energy Acceleration, it would be the BCIF. KO everything in 3 turns, yes please!
Hypocrite? How did you come to this? A person who is critical of the things they love are that way because they want things to be better. That's a sign someone cares.
Where is this four turn thing coming from?
Turn one, play grubbin onto bench or have as active pokemon, attach energy. Turn two, evolve into charjabug, attach energy. Turn three, evolve into Vikavolt GX, attach energy and use first attack. Turn four, attach energy, use GX attack.
Of course, this is a mixed case of worst and best scenarios at the same time where you have the full line in hand and enough energy, yet cannot accelerate energy onto it with its first attack or with vanilla vikavolt. And don't even say that it's not going to happen, it can and will when you run a 4-4-2/2 line. You can't always have everything that you need.
Card interactions bro! and running a 4-4-2-2 line isn't even that bad. You can also run more that two of the end stage Pokemon if you want.
D-did either of you even read the part where I said it was a mixture of best and worst case scenario where you could get the card into play but couldn't accelerate it faster than that? Of course there are scenarios where you can get it powered up in a turn or two, but that scenario is just as likely as my scenario where you just dead draw and have a 240 hp target that took 4 turns to get powered up. I bet the both you just skimmed over it and wrote angry fanboy responses because I'm not on the vikavolt GX bandwagon.
Now, since the fanboys clearly are not listening to the voice of reason and just looking at the GX attack and wetting themselves of the thought of getting 6 prizes off 3 benched shaymins, I'm going to list the pros and cons of this card.
Pros:
* First attack costs 1 lightning energy and attaches 1 energy from your discard to itself if you have any.
* Can get played on the first turn with Forest of Giant Plants.
* GX attack hits every pokemon your opponent has on the bench for 60 damage (With wide lense against things with 120 or less hp and lightning weakness, they're now in danger of being OHKO'd by this attack)
* Good synergy with vanilla vikavolt
*Second attack hits for 180, knocking out Stage 2 and lower pokemon, BREAKs, big basics, and most EXs. Takes huge chunks out of Megas and GX cards.
Cons:
* Stage 2 pokemon, so without FoGP, rare candy, or Wally, it takes 2 turns to get in play. (Same with vanilla vikavolt)
* Second attack discards two energy from it in a 4 energy attack. (One could argue that it's not that big of a problem with vanilla vikavolt, but you need vikavolt in play to minimize the effect of it. Oh and you need to make sure you have both lightning and grass energy in your deck to take full advantage of the ability)
* Second and GX attack both require 4 energy to play. (See above parenthesis statement for why this is a problem)
* Forced to share an evolution line with vanilla vikavolt which can cause issues of not having enough 'chairs' for both cards to 'sit' on.
* 60 damage is just that, 60 damage. If your opponent has a bunch of 60 and less hp on the bench, cool you get a prize or two. If not, you just put useless damage on pokemon that can potentially get it healed off or not see the 'active position' ever.
* Without Wide Lens, anything that is weak to lightning attacks is not in danger of being KO'd by the GX attack.
You get the point, there are good things about this card, and there are bad things about this card. And what gets me is that everyone thinks the cons are all negligible. I mean, what if your opponent runs garbodor in standard before it gets rotated to expanded? "Oh? What's that? You want to use vanilla vikavolt to power up your GX? Hang on, let me get my garbotoxin on."
If fanboys want to ignore the cons and repeat the same line of "Hurrdurr forest of giant plants+rarecandy+wally means I can get it powered up in one turn because I'm the king of top decking and have everything I need in my opening hand, and anything that I might need later on, I'll just top deck like a boss."
Then we're done here, there is nothing I can say to get you to put your super rod away and actually look at what this card does.
This is no place for analysis we're fanboying here 
But seriously, good breakdown. For me though, the balance of the pros and cons amount to a decent enough card. Not amazing, and not easy to set up - certainly do not expecting this to be king of meta, but it's still very much better than the initially stated "Garbage card that nobody is going to run". I think we'll see it crack the lower tiers perhaps. Maybe not immediately, but as the Metagame slows down through the next few rotations with all the evo-based slower focus that seems to be upcoming. It just irks me to see every new card automatically get a knee-jerk "trash card" comment, just because it's not the next Shaymin. Which happens more often than you'd think. MGard only hits for 110? Trash. Scizor can't OHKO either?? Trash. Volcanion needs three to attack? It'll never see play! People are so quick to write things off when there is such potential in things. Even a dog like Audino-EX can have it's day with the right conditions around it.
The one specific point I'll say I disagree on is how a 4-4-2/2 line is automatically a bad thing. Of course two separate Stage 2s would be too clunky, but since they share the Basic and Stage 1 portions of the lines, that frees up space in your deck to concentrate on just getting these built up. A stripped down deck focused on these guys and some draw support mons to pair with can work. At the very least, it's worth trying out before writing it off.
But seriously, good breakdown. For me though, the balance of the pros and cons amount to a decent enough card. Not amazing, and not easy to set up - certainly do not expecting this to be king of meta, but it's still very much better than the initially stated "Garbage card that nobody is going to run". I think we'll see it crack the lower tiers perhaps. Maybe not immediately, but as the Metagame slows down through the next few rotations with all the evo-based slower focus that seems to be upcoming. It just irks me to see every new card automatically get a knee-jerk "trash card" comment, just because it's not the next Shaymin. Which happens more often than you'd think. MGard only hits for 110? Trash. Scizor can't OHKO either?? Trash. Volcanion needs three to attack? It'll never see play! People are so quick to write things off when there is such potential in things. Even a dog like Audino-EX can have it's day with the right conditions around it.
The one specific point I'll say I disagree on is how a 4-4-2/2 line is automatically a bad thing. Of course two separate Stage 2s would be too clunky, but since they share the Basic and Stage 1 portions of the lines, that frees up space in your deck to concentrate on just getting these built up. A stripped down deck focused on these guys and some draw support mons to pair with can work. At the very least, it's worth trying out before writing it off.