P!P/Rules Should Garbodor be Banned?

[Otaku]

The difference I see here is because almost no decks need items to setup and because every deck use items, so this kind of lock would affect most decks the same way, while there are decks that need abilities to play, since that many decks that need the Shaymin-EX/Octillery to draw power, the new Omastar deck, Greninja BREAK and some others.

I must disagree. I am not trying to play word games, but yeah we are using things like "need" rather differently. If I use it strictly, where so long as I can get something up and attacking without Items, then your are correct, Calcab. However if we apply this same standard to most decks, they also do not need Abilities. Even Greninja BREAK can get up and attacking without them.

What matters is a "proper" or "competitive" set up, which takes into account a deck's strategy as well as pace. Without Items, very few decks can get a good, solid early game that transitions into a similarly worthwhile mid game. Most decks rely heavily on VS Seeker and Ultra Ball early game, with many also relying on Battle Compressor. Their set up is incomplete as well if they lack the desired Pokémon Tool. Without Abilities, many decks are also diminished, however it is because they lack access to Shaymin-EX (ROS). Which brings us back to the debate about how decks are built. If your deck is so Ability reliant that you cannot even get set up without Abilities, and what little you can do isn't worth it, then at least accept this is not how most decks operate. The three core kinds of cards are Pokémon, Trainers, and Energy. Items are one of the three kinds of Trainer cards. Abilities are not one of the kinds of Pokémon; they are one of the two kinds of effects you'll find on Pokémon (barring gimmicks like Ancient Traits).

The more we discuss this, the more I am starting to wonder if we would indeed be better off having Abilities become a much less important part of the game. The main reason I do not is that perhaps the biggest offender (Shaymin-EX) isn't going to care; instead decks using Garbodor will most likely drop a Shaymin-EX or two before locking down Abilities, something not uncommon when facing them now.

 

[SpoonLarry]

The difference I see here is because almost no decks need items to setup and because every deck use items, so this kind of lock would affect most decks the same way, while there are decks that need abilities to play that would be more affected than others by an ability lock, since that there are many decks that need the Shaymin-EX/Octillery to draw power, the new Omastar deck, Greninja BREAK and some others.

All decks NEED items including the ones that stop themselves from using them (Vileplume), in fact they probably use more items than conventional decks, just look at any vesplume deck list. And decks that require abilities already get hurt by hex maniac, and any deck that revolves around turn one Garbo, is going to be a garbo deck, this is not trev. Garbo hurts shaymin the least out of any other ability, and its hands down the most powerful ability that can be splashed into any deck, including any deck that even runs Garbo, this is why shaymin is so powerful, so people need to stop using shaymin as an example of something that Garbo shuts down because its simply not the case, hex maniac is the more reliable way to turn off turn one shaymin plays which is when 80% of the shaymins are played and are most effective.

 

[Raksha]

Remember Shiftry NXD + Forest of Giant Plants where everyone knew how broken it was, and they banned it day of Ancient Origin Release cause they knew they muked up. theres a vast difference between that and this little outcry over a pokemon that can be hexed/lysandred very quickly.

To be honest Garbodor poses no IMMEDIATE danger to the TCG compared to the previously said abomination cause with current supporters/trainers in our arsenal its really easy to negate garbotoxin, also while a good amount of pokemon may not like its effects like regirock shaymin /the new hawlucha and volcanion ex coming out. the ones who truly hurt from it are vastly smaller than from those who treat it as a minor inconvenience like octillery and vileplume

i will say that with the rotation set in stone we wont know for sure what kinda of new combos will arise from pcr-on and garbodor WILL be a strong contender, but with the current cards pcr-on unless your some sort of mad scientist who made a gamebreaking discovery involving garbodor. theres no current setup that will truely break the game involving garbodor compared to the shiftry a while back

 

[poke4trade]

Remember Shiftry NXD + Forest of Giant Plants where everyone knew how broken it was, and they banned it day of Ancient Origin Release cause they knew they muked up. theres a vast difference between that and this little outcry over a pokemon that can be hexed/lysandred very quickly.

To be honest Garbodor poses no IMMEDIATE danger to the TCG compared to the previously said abomination cause with current supporters/trainers in our arsenal its really easy to negate garbotoxin, also while a good amount of pokemon may not like its effects like regirock shaymin /the new hawlucha and volcanion ex coming out. the ones who truly hurt from it are vastly smaller than from those who treat it as a minor inconvenience like octillery and vileplume

i will say that with the rotation set in stone we wont know for sure what kinda of new combos will arise from pcr-on and garbodor WILL be a strong contender, but with the current cards pcr-on unless your some sort of mad scientist who made a gamebreaking discovery involving garbodor. theres no current setup that will truely break the game involving garbodor compared to the shiftry a while back

Yes. You are correct. Though I think players are going to be bemoaning when someone comes out with a consistent deck list that first turns Garbador on ability lock. It is going to happen. It might take a few weeks/months after rotation, but right now, trainers are probing, and eventually we will get a solid deck list for first turn ability lock. Once that happens, trainer will want hard answers to the card.

I mean the same thing happen to Villiplume and about 6/8 weeks after release when a clever trainer who runs the chizard lounge rocked the pokemon world.

The fact is is that pokemon has really clever players, and I really think Pokemon disrespects the players attention to the game by releasing formats like so. It's like not guarding Stephen Cury at the 3 point line. He consistently makes it, so you just can't leave gaps in the game or bad outcomes will be motivated and exploited.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Remember Shiftry NXD + Forest of Giant Plants where everyone knew how broken it was, and they banned it day of Ancient Origin Release cause they knew they muked up. theres a vast difference between that and this little outcry over a pokemon that can be hexed/lysandred very quickly.

To be honest Garbodor poses no IMMEDIATE danger to the TCG compared to the previously said abomination cause with current supporters/trainers in our arsenal its really easy to negate garbotoxin, also while a good amount of pokemon may not like its effects like regirock shaymin /the new hawlucha and volcanion ex coming out. the ones who truly hurt from it are vastly smaller than from those who treat it as a minor inconvenience like octillery and vileplume

i will say that with the rotation set in stone we wont know for sure what kinda of new combos will arise from pcr-on and garbodor WILL be a strong contender, but with the current cards pcr-on unless your some sort of mad scientist who made a gamebreaking discovery involving garbodor. theres no current setup that will truely break the game involving garbodor compared to the shiftry a while back

The one thing you dont seem to understand is some decks need abilities need to function and these decks can't run Hex Maniac to turn off Garbodor because you still can't use your abilities.

 

[Asclepius24]

The one thing you dont seem to understand is some decks need abilities need to function and these decks can't run Hex Maniac to turn off Garbodor because you still can't use your abilities.

Let's keep discussion focused on the TCG, not what you presume someone's level of reading comprehension to be.

People can fully understand the same information and draw different conclusions. Not everyone is going to agree with your opinions about what the game "should" be like.

 

[Ms Hugo]

What non-rogue deck can't Lysandre a target and deal 100 damage? I can't think of many decks that will be big next format that struggles doing 100 damage without the use of abilities. Greninja is the only one that comes to mind, maybe Zygarde. Mega Rayquaza's going to be huge and that drops most of its abilities turn 1. Garb's going to be a threat, but I seriously doubt it'll be ban-worthy.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Let's keep discussion focused on the TCG, not what you presume someone's level of reading comprehension to be.

People can fully understand the same information and draw different conclusions. Not everyone is going to agree with your opinions about what the game "should" be like.

I am keeping it focused on the TCG but I find it extremely important, like REALLY important that people understand that Pokemon other than Shaymin EX have abilities and that they should be worried about Garbodor being in the format without any counters.

 

[Asclepius24]

I am keeping it focused on the TCG but I find it extremely important, like REALLY important that people understand that Pokemon other than Shaymin EX have abilities and that they should be worried about Garbodor being in the format without any counters.

I think it's safe to say that people know other Pokemon have Abilities that will be affected by Garbodor. The difference of opinion isn't whether this interaction exists but the degree to which the interaction will affect the state of the game.

Most players I've spoken to and heard from think that Garbodor will be powerful but manageable and want to see how things play out; you think it will be game-breaking and want to ban the card without a single event's worth of data. That's where the major difference is, not whether other Pokemon have Abilities that will be hampered by Garbotoxin.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I think it's safe to say that people know other Pokemon have Abilities that will be affected by Garbodor. The difference of opinion isn't whether this interaction exists but the degree to which the interaction will affect the state of the game.

Most players I've spoken to and heard from think that Garbodor will be powerful but manageable and want to see how things play out; you think it will be game-breaking and want to ban the card without a single event's worth of data. That's where the major difference is, not whether other Pokemon have Abilities that will be hampered by Garbotoxin.

I do think we should see how it should play but I don't care if its banned or not or whether or not a counter is made to it. I also don't care who you talked to because that isn't an argument and ends up being either an appeal to authority or an appeal to popularity, which isn't how discussion should work because I too have talked to people who say the exact opposite. We don't have data, sure but we did have a format like this before and as of now, no card has been announced addressing the issue if one does or doesn't exist.

The simple fact is Garbodor does have a game breaking ability simply because you can't prevent its effect. The card even has a built in safeguard to prevent it from being game breaking but that safeguard can't be exploited because things that discard tools don't exist. A lot of Pokemon have abilities that will be hampered by Garbotoxin. People who like Golduck Break or any other break with abilities or some other non break non Shaymin EX Pokemon with abilities. People even like to use Octillery and build their decks accordingly assuming they can use their abilities each turn. Now the player can't play the deck they want to play, competitive or not because the designers didn't take enough care with their game to make sure something is in format to break the lock. My ability to break the lock should be as effective as my opponents ability to put the lock into effect. So on my turn I EXPECT to be able to break the lock and use my abilities on MY turn, not gust out the Pokemon and KO it or using an attack to get rid of the tool since I'm still behind in the game due to no fault of my own.

Now people seem to think I hate Garbodor or something. This isn't true. I think it deserves to exist in the format since some abilities are really good and should need a counter. Hex Maniac was made for that reason but what I DO hate is the fact that Garbodor exist in a format that will (as far as we know) not have a way to turn off Garbotoxin. This is what I can call game breaking because it takes a mechanic in the game players are to use if they wish, invalidates it and punishes the player just for playing the game because nothing exist for them to use to counter it.

 

[Asclepius24]

I do think we should see how it should play but I don't care if its banned or not or whether or not a counter is made to it. I also don't care who you talked to because that isn't an argument and ends up being either an appeal to authority or an appeal to popularity, which isn't how discussion should work because I too have talked to people who say the exact opposite.

I wasn't appealing to anyone to try to prove anything. I was stating what the two sides of the discussion are as demonstrated in this thread and elsewhere.

People who like Golduck Break or any other break with abilities or some other non break non Shaymin EX Pokemon with abilities. People even like to use Octillery and build their decks accordingly assuming they can use their abilities each turn. Now the player can't play the deck they want to play, competitive or not because the designers didn't take enough care with their game to make sure something is in format to break the lock. My ability to break the lock should be as effective as my opponents ability to put the lock into effect. So on my turn I EXPECT to be able to break the lock and use my abilities on MY turn, not gust out the Pokemon and KO it or using an attack to get rid of the tool since I'm still behind in the game due to no fault of my own.

The bolded statement is an opinion, not a fact. You're arguing as though it's a written rule of the game when it's not. There's nothing that says a player "should" be able to break a lock and instantly play the cards that lock was affecting other than your personal thoughts.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I wasn't appealing to anyone to try to prove anything. I was stating what the two sides of the discussion are as demonstrated in this thread and elsewhere.

You seemed as if you were asserting it as some kind of position. I'm not sure why you said it since I'm sure we both already knew this.

The bolded statement is an opinion, not a fact. You're arguing as though it's a written rule of the game when it's not. There's nothing that says a player "should" be able to break a lock and instantly play the cards that lock was affecting other than your personal thoughts.

Okay not that's just being silly. Clearly there isn't anything that says such a thing. The point is something called game balance. The text that requires the a tool to activate it balances the effect. It existing in the format without a way to turn it off means its not balanced anymore. A lock that is balanced should be as easy to break as it is to put into effect and expecting a player to give up turns to try to break a lock isn't balanced.

 

[Asclepius24]

You seemed as if you were asserting it as some kind of position. I'm not sure why you said it since I'm sure we both already knew this.

"People believe X; you seem to believe Y" is a contrast useful for framing a discussion; "people believe X, therefore it must be true" is an appeal. I was stating what may appear obvious because it did not seem that everyone was on the same page with regard to what this thread is here to discuss.

Okay not that's just being silly. Clearly there isn't anything that says such a thing. The point is something called game balance. The text that requires the a tool to activate it balances the effect. It existing in the format without a way to turn it off means its not balanced anymore. A lock that is balanced should be as easy to break as it is to put into effect and expecting a player to give up turns to try to break a lock isn't balanced.

You've asserted many times, here and elsewhere, that things "should" be a certain way. While I agree that there should be some sense of balance in the game, you clearly have a much more specific set of criteria for what that means which is based on your own opinions. Not everyone shares your definition of balance, so this keeps going in circles because people are not addressing the same issue.

For everyone: let's get this back on topic. If you'd like to discuss the finer points of philosophy, forensics, and debate, start a thread in Beach Life or, better yet, do so via PM.

 

[Ms Hugo]

Now the player can't play the deck they want to play, competitive or not because the designers didn't take enough care with their game to make sure something is in format to break the lock. My ability to break the lock should be as effective as my opponents ability to put the lock into effect. So on my turn I EXPECT to be able to break the lock and use my abilities on MY turn, not gust out the Pokemon and KO it or using an attack to get rid of the tool since I'm still behind in the game due to no fault of my own.

If you want to play competitively, you should anticipate that players ARE going to play the best cards and the best decks with some innovation here and there, and should plan accordingly. Maybe this means running a 2nd Lysandre if your deck's that weak to Garbodor, maybe it means playing a different deck. The deck that you like to play might just not be viable competitively (Garbodor or not), and there might be nothing you can do about it. That's very sad, but it's just something that I think all competitive players have to come to terms with very early on if they want to continue playing competitively and getting something out of it.

So then, you play casually. It's easy not to play against Garbodor casually - you just ask your opponent if they're playing it, and if they are, request that they play another deck. If people are reasonable and they know you hate Garbodor, they won't play Garbodor against you.

I don't mean to be rude or dismissive when I say this, but one cannot simply expect the competitive game or scene to bend to one's will. I'm afraid that no game works like that - fighting games, card games, nothing.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

"People believe X; you seem to believe Y" is a contrast useful for framing a discussion; "people believe X, therefore it must be true" is an appeal. I was stating what may appear obvious because it did not seem that everyone was on the same page with regard to what this thread is here to discuss.

Its clear not everyone is one the same page. Because of how the meta is now, people dont think other Pokemon other than Shaymin EX have an ability. Don't take that to be literal because I know this isn't true but no seems to think that people dare to play other decks. I'm simply saying that other Pokemon do have abilities and leaving a Pokemon in the format without a way to effectively counter it should be removed from it or dealt with in some way.

You've asserted many times, here and elsewhere, that things "should" be a certain way. While I agree that there should be some sense of balance in the game, you clearly have a much more specific set of criteria for what that means which is based on your own opinions. Not everyone shares your definition of balance, so this keeps going in circles because people are not addressing the same issue.

There should be only one definition of balance. I'm not sure how anyone else defines it but leaving Garbodor in the format as is isn't balanced.

For everyone: let's get this back on topic. If you'd like to discuss the finer points of philosophy, forensics, and debate, start a thread in Beach Life or, better yet, do so via PM.

That's what we're doing here. I hope you're not expecting people to just say yes or no but the title of the thread is "Should Garbodor be banned". That very title welcomes debate and depending on where people stand on it, things like philosophy and forensics will be apart of it, since that's how debates work.

If you want to play competitively, you should anticipate that players ARE going to play the best cards and the best decks with some innovation here and there, and should plan accordingly. Maybe this means running a 2nd Lysandre if your deck's that weak to Garbodor, maybe it means playing a different deck. The deck that you like to play might just not be viable competitively (Garbodor or not), and there might be nothing you can do about it. That's very sad, but it's just something that I think all competitive players have to come to terms with very early on if they want to continue playing competitively and getting something out of it.

So then, you play casually. It's easy not to play against Garbodor casually - you just ask your opponent if they're playing it, and if they are, request that they play another deck. If people are reasonable and they know you hate Garbodor, they won't play Garbodor against you.

I don't mean to be rude or dismissive when I say this, but one cannot simply expect the competitive game or scene to bend to one's will. I'm afraid that no game works like that - fighting games, card games, nothing.

Broken doesn't mean competitive. I'm not sure where this idea comes from. There is a huge difference in not knowing the meta and things just not being fair in general, after all if you're going to play with a broken racket, you better take care to lob your shots, right? A player should play the deck they feel will game them the best chance at winning but the game should be accommodating to which ever deck they want to play because that's what balance is but what I don't like people saying is "if you don't like it, then don't play" because that doesn't fix the issue and is very insensitive to the player. I already said I dont hate Garbodor. I just hate that it exist in a format with no counter to it.

To be perfectly honest with you, you are being very dismissive because you have disregarded everything I said. I never made a claim the game should bend to my will.

 

[Ms Hugo]

Broken doesn't mean competitive. I'm not sure where this idea comes from. There is a huge difference in not knowing the meta and things just not being fair in general, after all if you're going to play with a broken racket, you better take care to lob your shots, right? A player should play the deck they feel will game them the best chance at winning but the game should be accommodating to which ever deck they want to play because that's what balance is but what I don't like people saying is "if you don't like it, then don't play" because that doesn't fix the issue and is very insensitive to the player. I already said I dont hate Garbodor. I just hate that it exist in a format with no counter to it.

To be perfectly honest with you, you are being very dismissive because you have disregarded everything I said. I never made a claim the game should bend to my will.

I've not disregarded everything you said, I agree that Garbodor will be very good - I plan to run the card myself next season, and do believe in its effectiveness - I just don't think it's broken. I especially agree that problem cards should be banned, even in a game like Pokemon that doesn't ban as much.

And you did say that you "expect" to break a lock and use your abilities on your turn. Maybe I expect to draw 4 Shaymins in a Mega Ray deck and play them all down and OHKO on my turn, but sometimes that just doesn't happen. Or maybe I expect to draw a Xerosic and pop the energy off a Jolteon so they can't lock me next turn. I can't just automatically have all of those things just because I want them...you can break out of Garbodor by Lysandring up the problem and lock it out. Sure, you can't shut down the Garbodor and Magnetic Circuit 5 energy onto a Raikou and Lysandre a Shaymin and take too prizes in one turn anymore. It's just how it goes.

My point was that there are two levels of play from what I can see - competitive and casual. Card games are (IMO) too complicated and contain way too many factors to ever be fully balanced. Maybe I can't use my Elemental Monkey deck against Alakazam and win, but I can play against someone else using a fun deck and enjoy it. I'm not sure if I'm entirely expressing what I want to, but my opinion is that card games can't be a completely even playing field - players, however, can even the playing field by playing casually and using fun decks.

I really think I've gone too far off-topic here (sorry), but I do believe that taking this kind of attitude can help players enjoy the game more.

 

[SpoonLarry]

@crystal_pidgeot

What to you constitutes as being equally as likely? Adding an item like megaphone or Xerosic to stop the lock is not as hard as setting it up, it all comes down to being lucky enough to have the card you need when you need it, Pokemon has always been that way, everything else is to help make that happen as often as possible (Consistency). So if a deck can't operate at all because of one thing, it is just so heavly focused on abilities that its an insta scoop at the sight of Garbodor, than its already not a very good deck because even if the answer to it exists its still up to luck that you get that answer. This is why people think Garbo is healthy in the meta, cause any good deck can deal with it, and as I have stated many times Garbo is not Trev, which is astronomically easier to get out and astronomically more harmful to the meta, but guess what keeps on winning large sanctioned events, not Trev, so I don't get why people have such a hard on for the card its self or the lack of ways to deal with it.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I've not disregarded everything you said, I agree that Garbodor will be very good - I plan to run the card myself next season, and do believe in its effectiveness - I just don't think it's broken. I especially agree that problem cards should be banned, even in a game like Pokemon that doesn't ban as much.

And you did say that you "expect" to break a lock and use your abilities on your turn. Maybe I expect to draw 4 Shaymins in a Mega Ray deck and play them all down and OHKO on my turn, but sometimes that just doesn't happen. Or maybe I expect to draw a Xerosic and pop the energy off a Jolteon so they can't lock me next turn. I can't just automatically have all of those things just because I want them...you can break out of Garbodor by Lysandring up the problem and lock it out. Sure, you can't shut down the Garbodor and Magnetic Circuit 5 energy onto a Raikou and Lysandre a Shaymin and take too prizes in one turn anymore. It's just how it goes.

My point was that there are two levels of play from what I can see - competitive and casual. Card games are (IMO) too complicated and contain way too many factors to ever be fully balanced. Maybe I can't use my Elemental Monkey deck against Alakazam and win, but I can play against someone else using a fun deck and enjoy it. I'm not sure if I'm entirely expressing what I want to, but my opinion is that card games can't be a completely even playing field - players, however, can even the playing field by playing casually and using fun decks.

I really think I've gone too far off-topic here (sorry), but I do believe that taking this kind of attitude can help players enjoy the game more.

See, you didn't understand what I was saying. I never said we should automatically have our counters when we need them. What I was saying that we should be able to break the lock on our turn as that would be the fastest just like the player putting on the lock does so on their turn meaning I should be able to break the lock and then play my decks strategy.

As for your monkey deck, you can play the deck. There isn't anything that says you can't use it unless there is some mechanic that says you can't play stage one Pokemon. The difference here is Garbodor turns off both good and bad abilities and the fail safe the card has to prevent it from being broken doesn't exist as far as we know, which makes the card broken. I don't care about competitive or casual play. I care about whats balance and if the game isn't balanced then the game is fubar.

@crystal_pidgeot

What to you constitutes as being equally as likely? Adding an item like megaphone or Xerosic to stop the lock is not as hard as setting it up, it all comes down to being lucky enough to have the card you need when you need it, Pokemon has always been that way, everything else is to help make that happen as often as possible (Consistency). So if a deck can't operate at all because of one thing, it is just so heavly focused on abilities that its an insta scoop at the sight of Garbodor, than its already not a very good deck because even if the answer to it exists its still up to luck that you get that answer. This is why people think Garbo is healthy in the meta, cause any good deck can deal with it, and as I have stated many times Garbo is not Trev, which is astronomically easier to get out and astronomically more harmful to the meta, but guess what keeps on winning large sanctioned events, not Trev, so I don't get why people have such a hard on for the card its self or the lack of ways to deal with it.

Consistency isn't a argument. If a player chooses to play 4 energy in their deck and dont get them when they need it, then its no fault of mine or any other player. I also don't care what card exist to discard tools so long as its effective to break the lock. A player who understands the game will do whats needed to make sure their deck doesn't completely fold in a matchup. If a card existed that could discard tools, this thread wouldn't even exist because there would be no issue.

I too think Garbodor is healthy for the game but thats because there was a way to turn off his ability. As far as we know now, there won't be a way to do that, which is a problem. I also don't care what card is more unhealthy for the meta, even more so since Forest Curse Trev is rotating. While I do agree that Item lock is general worse because everyone uses items, having a lock that can't be broken is just as bad.

 

[girazard]

@crystal_pidgeot At this point in time, what are you expecting to get out of this conversation? Do you want to convince people that Garbodor should be banned? Wait for events before judging that. That the measures against Garb are too situational/unreasonable for decks to succeed? Again, wait til events to see what is successful and if the need to counter Garb prevents Ability-based decks from succeeding. That it's an unbalanced card? Similarly, we need empirical evidence for this and AFAIK you haven't been testing in a PRC-on format yet so you don't have any. That you personally don't like the card in this setting? I think that's fairly well established by now...so now what?

Personally, I don't like Garb as a Pokemon itself (ew); Garbotoxin itself shouldn't have been brought back so early imo because I have a personal preference of waiting for cards to be out of format for a while before they (or similar, or in this case identical) effects return. However, I think almost every mechanic in the game should have loopholes and counter-strategies (whether you think they are good enough is something else, but for Garbotoxin they are out there) and those loopholes and counter-strategies should have themselves loopholes and counter-strategies...and finding the balance between those things is what I find skilful and what I enjoy in the game

 

[Ms Hugo]

You can break the lock then play your deck's strategy by using Lysandre on the Garbodor, KOing it, and then continuing next turn. The fail-safe to prevent the card being broken is the fact that it has only 100 HP and Lysandre exists. If you KO that Garbodor and they don't have a Trubbish on the bench, you have at least a turn of abilities from then on. Maybe you have to give up a turn to take out a problem card - fine, you get +1 prize and a chance to get back into the game.

I have no idea why you don't care about casual or competitive play seeing as...I'm pretty sure those are the only ways you can play the card game. But I've given my argument and have no idea how to proceed from here lol.