Ruling ???SHIFTRY EX PK???

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zml14

zml14

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A couple weeks ago I was battling a judge and he was playing Shiftry ex (PK) and used Skill Hack with only 1 Darkness Energy. He used it on my Steelix ex (UF) to use Mudslide but, he didn't discard any Fighting Energy (Which you need to discard 2) and he says if you don't have any Fighting Energy on Shiftry ex (PK) you can get a "freebie" attack.
When I tried to read the text on the card which clearly states you have to do everything for an attack except the energy cost he took his cards away and told me if I argue with a judge (him) again I could get banned from any tournaments that he runs and league. Do you know the ruling on that card and what I should do about the judge problem? If so please post here and help me because I don't know what to do."
Thanks.
 
First of all, report the person to Pokemon-USA or whichever company is running in your country (I dont know in which country your live). That behaviour is unacceptable.

Secondary, you were in your right. While Shiftry Ex does not have to have the correct energy attached to him to execute an attack, if you cannot do anything that is required (Such as discarding energy), you cannot use the attack.
 
If can't discard energy which is requiered in this attack he can't performed the attack
 
Until *yesterday* the official ruling was "do as much as you can" ... if he had fighting energy he had to discard it but if he didn't then Shiftry ex could copy Mudslide for 1 darkness energy. So it was correct THEN.

As of TODAY the ruling has changed & he would indeed have to have two fighting energy to discard in order to copy the attack.
 
Actually, Shiftry ex says right on the card that you must still do anything else in order to use the attack. Here's the way I read it:

Steelix ex said:
Mudslide: [F] [F] [C] [C]
Discard 2 [F] Energy attached to Steelix ex and choose 1 of your opponent's Pokemon. This attack does 100 damage to that Pokemon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benced Pokemon)
Click to expand...

Note that you must discard energies AND choose at the same time. You don't have a choice of doing one or the other first, so if you can't fulfill one requirement, you can't fulfill the other requirement either. They really should say "discard 2 [F] energies, then choose 1..." instead, but they chose not to.

Perhaps I'm interpretting it wrong, or maybe saying it oddly, but I still believe the bottom line is that you MUST discard energies in order to use the second effect of the attack. You can still perform the attack, but when you don't discard the energies you don't get to choose a Pokemon. Mudslide's default damage is 0, so the attack would do nothing if you didn't discard energies.
 
I can clear this out.....Shiftry ex's attack does not say that if it can't do something neccessary for an attack, that attack does not do anything.....understand ?

untitled-1.jpg


Read the card slowly.....and.....carefully.....:)
 
Gosh, where do you live? That guy is...crazy!
And yes, discarding energy cards do not count as part of the cost, so Shiftry ex would have to discard the fighting's for Mudslide.
 
OMG this has already been discussed and up until now the ruling had been do as much as you can so if you had a multi on shiftry youd have to discard it as a fighting if you had a DRE youd have to discard it but if you didnt you could still attack but it has recently been changed so that all attacks that say a certain amount of a certain kind you must discard that much of that kind but if it says all energy one is enough if you still confused pokegym just answered this
 
For Mudslide, you would NEED the Energies to do damage, so Alchemist Almighty is correct, obviously :p.

But for something like Salamence's Delta Blast or something similar, you could still use the attack even if you just had a Dark energy on, since you met the requirements to trigger the attack, so damage is applied, then the effects. Steelix has no damage so you would need to do all the requirements at once, THEN 100 damage is applied. Of course, if you had a Dark Metal or just a Multi on Shiftry, you would need to discard it, as far as Sally d goes.

And I think I understand how Skill Hack usually reacts with all these, but I still have one question.

If an attack would require you to discard TWO or more energies (not like Charizard's Metal Burn as that is not numbered, but like Salamence EX's Bright Flame), if Shiftry EX only had ONE energy attached to it, would you still discard it? You met the requirements to initiate the attack, but the effect is to discard 2 energies saying that you would have 2 energies (or more) on you already, so would THIS effect still trigger? And like I said, is the single energy discarded?
 
THE RULES COMPENDIUM EX said:
== SKILL HACK (Shiftry EX - EX: Power Keepers)

Q. If I use Shiftry-EX's "Skill Hack" attack and find that my opponent's Pokemon don't have any attacks I want, can I choose to not do any attack?
A. No, if you find any Pokemon with attacks in your opponent's hand you MUST choose one of them. (Feb 22, 2007 PUI Rules Team)

Q. If I use Shiftry-EX's "Skill Hack" attack and copy an attack like Salamence-EX's "Hydro Wave" or Steelix-EX's "Mudslide", do I have to have any Water energy or Fighting energy attached to Shiftry-EX or not?
A. Basically when it comes to statements like "discard X Energy", they are considered necessary to use that attack. So for Hydro Wave Shiftry-EX would need to have at least one Water energy to discard, and for Mudslide Shiftry-EX would need to have two Fighting energy to discard. If you can only choose an attack that has requirements and you don't have the correct energy cards attached, then the Skill Hack attack does nothing. (Mar 15, 2007 PUI Rules Team)

Q. If I use Shiftry-EX's "Skill Hack" attack and find that my opponent also has a Shiftry-EX's with "Skill Hack", can I choose to use one of the attacks in MY own hand?
A. No, when you copy an opponent's attack you copy it from the point of view of the Pokemon doing the "copying" attack. So if you copied your opponent's Skill Hack, you would simply get to look at their hand AGAIN! But to do this in a recursive, infinite fashion would result in delay-of-game penalties or "unsportsmanlike conduct". (Feb 22, 2007 PUI Rules Team)
Click to expand...

Note again this is the current ruling ... it was completely different a week ago & the judge mentioned above did it exactly correctly by the old rules.
 
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