Discussion Shaymin EX: The Good, Bad and Ugly

[TuxedoBlack]

With the release of the Roaring Skies set, a new Shaymin EX was released with an Ability that allows a player to replenish his/her hand up to 6 cards.

This card has already established itself in many decks as a key asset to supplement the deck's card drawing capability. In fact, some players may even run 4 copies of this Poké. Utilizing this Poké can greatly enhance the speed, as well as, the consistency of one's deck.

From playtesting thus far, it is not uncommon for a player to utilize 10-15+ minutes on just 1 turn. This is also not considered "slow playing" either as long as the player is using the drawn cards at a "decent" game pace. Needless to say, the winner of game 1 in a Bo3 match can also utilize Shaymin EX play as a stall tactic too in the second game too in order to consume as much of the remaining match time.

Thoughts?

 

[Elbow]

What are the 'thoughts' supposed to be on? The fact that Shaymin EX is used for stalling?
I do not think that Shaymin EX is the cause for game stalling. Cards like Trainer's Mail, N, Acro Bike, and Ultra Ball are all cards that utilize stalling. Sure, you can possibly use Shaymin EX 4 times or more in a turn, but that is VERY unlikely due to the LTC ban. Even still, it isn't Shaymin that is making turns last longer, but the increase of item cards that require shuffling. Why do we have to shuffle our whole deck after using Trainer's Mail, and why do we allow opponents to take a full minute to use Ultra Ball and Acro Bike? While those are the literal rules of the card, I think that it shouldn't have been printed that way in the first place as it allows for stalling to prevail. These are the reasons why turns can take 5-10 minutes.

Also 1,000th post btw !

 

[bbninjas]

You stole my thread name

I really don't think many players would utitilise Shaymin as a stall tactic without it being obvious. Playing a Shaymin is simply part of the game; what difference is there if a legitimate player played a long turn of Shaymin during R2 and a staller played a long turn of Shaymin? Besides, Shaymin isnt a very viable stall option as you could easily deck yourself out.

 

[TheStrictNein]

What are the 'thoughts' supposed to be on? The fact that Shaymin EX is used for stalling?
I do not think that Shaymin EX is the cause for game stalling. Cards like Trainer's Mail, N, Acro Bike, and Ultra Ball are all cards that utilize stalling. Sure, you can possibly use Shaymin EX 4 times or more in a turn, but that is VERY unlikely due to the LTC ban. Even still, it isn't Shaymin that is making turns last longer, but the increase of item cards that require shuffling. Why do we have to shuffle our whole deck after using Trainer's Mail, and why do we allow opponents to take a full minute to use Ultra Ball and Acro Bike? While those are the literal rules of the card, I think that it shouldn't have been printed that way in the first place as it allows for stalling to prevail. These are the reasons why turns can take 5-10 minutes.

Also 1,000th post btw !

The only issue I have with your post is Acro Bike. Acro Bike looks at the top two and discards one. No shuffling is required. As such, the standard around 15 seconds to decide applies.

Also, Ultra Ball should also be only 15 seconds. It's up to Judges to enforce what they feel may be slow play.

 

[Elbow]

The only issue I have with your post is Acro Bike. Acro Bike looks at the top two and discards one. No shuffling is required. As such, the standard around 15 seconds to decide applies.

Also, Ultra Ball should also be only 15 seconds. It's up to Judges to enforce what they feel may be slow play.

The problem with acro bike is that once players look at the top 2 cards, then then proceed to look at their discard, hand, field, and maybe even the opponent's discard. It sometimes can be a very quick decision, but many times it takes 30-60 seconds with all of the other interactions. It's not just the shuffling.
And as for the 15 second rule, it does apply, but people are pretty lenient on that rule. Because they aren't constantly checking their watch every 15 seconds, people don't say anything until 30 seconds or more. This is why I think like last year's US nationals was great with the giant clock; it limited slow playing yet still made sure that you weren't staring at the clock for the whole game.

 

[TheStrictNein]

The problem with acro bike is that once players look at the top 2 cards, then then proceed to look at their discard, hand, field, and maybe even the opponent's discard. It sometimes can be a very quick decision, but many times it takes 30-60 seconds with all of the other interactions. It's not just the shuffling.
And as for the 15 second rule, it does apply, but people are pretty lenient on that rule. Because they aren't constantly checking their watch every 15 seconds, people don't say anything until 30 seconds or more. This is why I think like last year's US nationals was great with the giant clock; it limited slow playing yet still made sure that you weren't staring at the clock for the whole game.

Then if players are constantly doing that it's down to the Judges to reinforce the lively pace of the game.

It's no inherent design flaw of the card itself.