Hey fellow Beachbums - just looking for someone to talk me off the bridge here. My initial reaction to the new Sableye was, "OH NO! Supporter lock? Are you kidding me?" Looking for someone to reassure me and tell me that it's not going to be the worst lock ever. The more I think about sitting across from a Sableye Decidueye deck, the more worried I get.
Discussion Sableye Guardians Rising
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This deck will definitely be good. With ffb sablye will have more health. Potentially if going first you set up sablye in active with decidueye and vileplume benched. If going second you can supporter and itemlock up with decidueye sniping. The game is practically coin flips now.
I think that because it's an attack the non Sableye deck will get to use a supporter turn 1 regardless of first or second.
I'm also thinking that Supporter lock will be enough. I don't think item lock is necessary to put with this. The only item card I can think of that will reshuffle your hand is Red Card, but that only gets you four cards, and not many people play it. Without card draw, item lock is a little superfluous. I think you'll be better off filling your deck with Nest Balls, Level Balls, float stone, and switch cards to ensure the turn 1 Sableye in the active.
But from what I'm interpreting, there'll be no way to lift the effect of this attack right? Using escape rope or repel won't get rid of the effect, and obviously you won't be able to play Ranger.
What about playing ranger before Sableye attacks? Would that prevent the supporter lock?
I'm also thinking that Supporter lock will be enough. I don't think item lock is necessary to put with this. The only item card I can think of that will reshuffle your hand is Red Card, but that only gets you four cards, and not many people play it. Without card draw, item lock is a little superfluous. I think you'll be better off filling your deck with Nest Balls, Level Balls, float stone, and switch cards to ensure the turn 1 Sableye in the active.
But from what I'm interpreting, there'll be no way to lift the effect of this attack right? Using escape rope or repel won't get rid of the effect, and obviously you won't be able to play Ranger.
What about playing ranger before Sableye attacks? Would that prevent the supporter lock?
yes it would
Still, that would require that you get Ranger in your hand turn 1 - which isn't impossible with Tapu Lele, but in order to get Tapu Lele, you might need to play a draw support card, which would mean that you wouldn't be able to play Ranger, so this becomes a hit or miss situation where you won't be able to consistently prevent supporter lock.
This still doesn't make me feel much better.
This still doesn't make me feel much better.
Can someone post the image of the card? I'm basing my post assuming it's something from the attack like "Your opponent can't play a supporter card from hand during the next turn" similar to what Giratina EX's attack said "Your opponent can't play any Pokémon Tool, Special Energy, or Stadium cards from his or her hand during his or her next turn."
No it would not prevent the lock. Pokémon Ranger does not last. It's a one time event that clears existing effects so playing it before the attack would do nothing against it. Once Sableye attacks, there's a new effect from the attack. Compare it's wording to that of Hex Maniac to see the difference, which does indeed last longer than the instant. Once the lock is up, you can't play the Ranger to clear the effect.
If someone posts the English scan and my basic assumption was incorrect I'll edit my post of course to clear out the incorrect information.
Edit to add links, since I'm asking for text to back up the cards might as well provide the cards I'm referencing also!
Link to Giriatina in case anyone's unfamiliar with the card: http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-tcg/pokemon-cards/xy-series/xy7/57/
Link to Hex Maniac: http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-tcg/pokemon-cards/xy-series/xy7/75/
Link to Pokémon Ranger: http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-tcg/pokemon-cards/xy-series/xy11/104/
It's here on the Beach:
http://www.pokebeach.com/2017/03/sm2-islands-waiting-for-you-and-moonlight-of-alola-leaking
I think you're right Guardian. Ranger removes effects, it doesn't do anything before the effect is activated. I don't think it will prevent Limitation from working.
http://www.pokebeach.com/2017/03/sm2-islands-waiting-for-you-and-moonlight-of-alola-leaking
I think you're right Guardian. Ranger removes effects, it doesn't do anything before the effect is activated. I don't think it will prevent Limitation from working.
Ok thanks, I figured it was somewhere, but didn't go back as far as I needed. Here's the translation for anyone else just coming into the discussion: "[D] Limitation: Your opponent can’t play Supporter cards from their hand during their next turn."
Of course, this is just a translation, and they are usually really accurate, but minor things might change.
This wording confirms what I said, Ranger would not prevent the lock since you can't play the ranger when the lock is active, which is the requirement of ranger to disable anything (Unlike Hex Maniac, which can disable something's ability before it comes into play). Plus, what would the benefit of using your 1 supporter for turn be to allow you to use a supporter when they will just do it again next turn? Hope that's not worded too awkwardly. Essentially you are theory-crafting that you can spend your supporter to allow you to play another supporter, when you can't play more than one a turn and going into the next turn they'll just lock you again.
Of course, this is just a translation, and they are usually really accurate, but minor things might change.
This wording confirms what I said, Ranger would not prevent the lock since you can't play the ranger when the lock is active, which is the requirement of ranger to disable anything (Unlike Hex Maniac, which can disable something's ability before it comes into play). Plus, what would the benefit of using your 1 supporter for turn be to allow you to use a supporter when they will just do it again next turn? Hope that's not worded too awkwardly. Essentially you are theory-crafting that you can spend your supporter to allow you to play another supporter, when you can't play more than one a turn and going into the next turn they'll just lock you again.
No it wouldn't Ranger only removes effects that exist before you play it it doesn't linger, meaning you would have to use it while supporter locked (which is impossible) (proof of this ruling http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/threads/pokemon-ranger-better-understanding.135572/)
However, Marowak (FCO) exists, whose ability reads, "Prevent all effects of attacks done to you or your hand by your opponent's Pokémon. Remove any existing effects." Allowing you to use supporters
You misread red card, red card reads, "Your opponent shuffles his or her hand into his or her deck and draws 4 cards."
Ah whoops thanks jessalakasam. Not sure where my brain was, I had teched in a couple of red cards into a Tsareena deck I was messing around with the night before.
And thanks for the heads up on Marowak. Might have to play a 1-1 line. Maybe even tech in Victini into my Lycanroc decks.
And thanks for the heads up on Marowak. Might have to play a 1-1 line. Maybe even tech in Victini into my Lycanroc decks.
Decidueye is nice and all but I would love to see this trainer locking theme with the trevent from guardians rising. The one that does 30 damage time the number of trainer cards in your opponents hand. And since the new phantump is grass it could all be out turn one.
ok I've been thinking about Sableye A LOT and I am going to down grade it. I think it will be extremely effective against many evolution decks. However, I think that Volcanion, Tauros, Decidueye, and Darkrai will all have their way with Sableye. As these are four of the top ten most common Pokemon, I think Sableye will not have the success that I had feared.
But of course I could be wrong, but I just think there are too many fast decks in the meta right now that don't need much to get going, and you will get to play at least one supporter regardless of whether you go first or not.
But of course I could be wrong, but I just think there are too many fast decks in the meta right now that don't need much to get going, and you will get to play at least one supporter regardless of whether you go first or not.
I think one thing people aren't thinking about with this card is late game use. Say you are down 4 prizes to 2 prizes or 3 prizes to 2 prizes, have Yveltal on your bench, you just laid down a DCE to get it set up, but you aren't quite at OHKO level yet. Sableye can buy you a turn without Lysandre for the price of 1 prize (and possibly zero prizes if you also Lysandre up a fat pokemon that can't kill it or retreat right away). It can also buy you a deck out if you can get a hoopa or something like that up top and they can't retreat it. I am not saying the card plays in every deck. I am not even saying it plays in most decks. But I am seeing a ton of "ZOMG I R LOCKED OUT" early game use and almost no "ZOMG I R LOCKED OUT" late game use discussion. Right now, I don't see a deck that truly maximizes the early game use, but I see a bunch of decks that could abuse the card in late game use.