Yes, but we have energy retrieval and hex is only one turn, unless they spam it
Discussion Return of Greninja?
- Thread starter Draskk
- Start date
If the sylveon player is diving for hex or skull (neither of which are 4 counts in any deck I have seen), sylveon isn't attacking giving greninja more opportunities to do damage and force a max potion that resets sylveon's energy forcing more stalling.
I think this is very clearly in greninja's favor. Sylveon is built to beat heavy energy requirement decks. It struggles against decks that on need a single attachment to take OHKOs. It isn't like greninja even needs a choice band to take the kill.
Long story short, two great players playing where one has greninja and the other Sylveon and I think greninja wins 7 out of 10.
Excellent resume. It's just what I was looking for.
Thank you very much, now I have it more clearly. The analysis that you do, leaves me with an idea that I should go on the deck for standard, and I guess it's a matter of taste, which pokemon line to follow, starmie or talonflame.
I like the Talonflame line, so I gain time to survive turn one.
Here's my current deck list with Greninja/Talonflame.
Pokemon - 18 Trainer - 33 Energy - 9
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3 - Froakie BKP 4 - Professor Sycamore BKP 8 - Basic Water
4 - Frogadier BKP 4 - N FAC 1 - Splash Energy - BKP
4 - Greninja BKP 2 - Team Flare Grunt GEN
3 - Greninja BREAK - BKP 1 - Fisherman BKT
4 - Talonflame - STS 1 - Lysandre AOR
1 - Skyla BKT
4 - VS Seeker PHF
4 - Dive Ball PRC
2 - Ultra Ball SUM
2 - Field Blower GUR
1 - Rescue Stretcher GUR
1 - Super Rod BKT
3 - Choice Band GUR
3 - Rough Seas PRC
Overall I think it's a good list, and after going over lots of articles I think this may be one of the best.
Side Notes:
1 Lysandre, it makes me feel a little self-conscious, but at the end of the day you can survive with it.
3 Rough Seas, This is probably my biggest question, what is the best stadiums to play? Silent Lab, Rough Seas, Parallel City, etc...
As the regionals start and finish I'll have new info as to what whould be played and what shouldn't but until then, please let me know your thoughts.
Pokemon - 18 Trainer - 33 Energy - 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 - Froakie BKP 4 - Professor Sycamore BKP 8 - Basic Water
4 - Frogadier BKP 4 - N FAC 1 - Splash Energy - BKP
4 - Greninja BKP 2 - Team Flare Grunt GEN
3 - Greninja BREAK - BKP 1 - Fisherman BKT
4 - Talonflame - STS 1 - Lysandre AOR
1 - Skyla BKT
4 - VS Seeker PHF
4 - Dive Ball PRC
2 - Ultra Ball SUM
2 - Field Blower GUR
1 - Rescue Stretcher GUR
1 - Super Rod BKT
3 - Choice Band GUR
3 - Rough Seas PRC
Overall I think it's a good list, and after going over lots of articles I think this may be one of the best.
Side Notes:
1 Lysandre, it makes me feel a little self-conscious, but at the end of the day you can survive with it.
3 Rough Seas, This is probably my biggest question, what is the best stadiums to play? Silent Lab, Rough Seas, Parallel City, etc...
As the regionals start and finish I'll have new info as to what whould be played and what shouldn't but until then, please let me know your thoughts.
Sorry guys but I'm just not buying the Greninja hype. There are just too many good Grass decks out there.
I tried Omnipoke's list the other night and ran into back to back Grass decks (Trev and then Lurantis). At that point, I said, "Check please."
I love Greninja and will try it again post rotation after FoGP is gone, but you just can't play a deck that's going to automatically lose a quarter of its matches.
I tried Omnipoke's list the other night and ran into back to back Grass decks (Trev and then Lurantis). At that point, I said, "Check please."
I love Greninja and will try it again post rotation after FoGP is gone, but you just can't play a deck that's going to automatically lose a quarter of its matches.
This is a fair point. However, like you said, when Forest rotates these Grass decks are gonna have their entire base brought down from under them, and that's where Greninja comes in (imo).
Volcanion players
My main reason for thinking we are going to see more ninjas has to do with the fact that I expect a metric ton of decks running sylveon and Trashalanche. Also with increased volcanion play, the ninjas will rise! Or at least see some play where they weren't seeing much at all prior to this set.
Agreed that there will be a ton of Sylveon and Garb, but I don't know that Greninja is the answer to either of them. I don't know what the answer to them is. Maybe Excadrill for Sylveon, but I don't have a clue as to what's going to stop Garb ... other than Garb.
Ive only lost 1 out of 11 games against Garbo with my Greninja deck and lost that matchup from a Tauros dunk to froakie.
Well it would be helpful, have the deck list, with which you are playing.
I have tried Starmie and Talonflame, will it be possible to use them on the same deck?
Also Max potion would be a good choice? What about, instead of Rough Seas or Brooklet Hill, why not use Chaos Tower and thus stop to Lapras and Espeon GX.
Sure I'm playing very low ranked people, because I've seen very or almost no decidueye plume deck, or garbotoxin.
How is Greninja against Tapu-koko decks?
I have tried Starmie and Talonflame, will it be possible to use them on the same deck?
Also Max potion would be a good choice? What about, instead of Rough Seas or Brooklet Hill, why not use Chaos Tower and thus stop to Lapras and Espeon GX.
Sure I'm playing very low ranked people, because I've seen very or almost no decidueye plume deck, or garbotoxin.
How is Greninja against Tapu-koko decks?
I think just Talonflame is fine, at the end of the day you don't have that much trouble getting energy to require to add another whole evolution line.
Max potion is basically your partner with Rough Seas, I play three Rough Seas and if I had to take them out Max Potion is what I would replace it with for healing power.
The thing with Rough Seas is that it replaces three Items that Garbodor would otherwise feast on (60 damage), and It gives you stadium strength as well so your opponent doesn't run you over with whatever Stadium they want. a 2-1 Rough Seas-Chaos Tower could be interesting but since Greninja doesn't have great drawing power I would think it could get clunky at times.
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To be honest, i am having less and less trouble with Garbodor the more I play against it. I would rather play Trashalanche any day over quad Sylveon. It is just easier to take down.
But my absolute hatred for the quad control decks is pretty well documented. I am dead serious when I say that I have never really wanted to play greninja for much more than fun...until quad Sylveon. I absolutely LOATHE that deck.
I beat it with Umbreon Zoroark. I Nd it hard and kept using Zoroark Break's attack to clone miraculous ribbon over and over again to keep Sylveon locked out of what it wanted to do. It was glorious and the poor person playing me had no way to stop me Bahahahhahahahahhaha!
Ok, I'll correct you Jake. Sometimes we play for fun. Most of the time I play to win.
I enjoy playing win or lose regardless of the deck I'm going against. Sylveon is a frustrating deck but I enjoy the experience either way win or lose. The pleasure comes from learning how to be a better player and executing my play at a high level. Personally, I put too much time into this to say it's just for fun. It's for A LOT more than that.
I enjoy playing win or lose regardless of the deck I'm going against. Sylveon is a frustrating deck but I enjoy the experience either way win or lose. The pleasure comes from learning how to be a better player and executing my play at a high level. Personally, I put too much time into this to say it's just for fun. It's for A LOT more than that.
Appreciate that, I suppose if I stick around long enough i'll come to the win over fun mindset... Haha. That said I did manage to beat sylveon with Koko at my local tournament. However I feel it was dead drawing on the sylveon side that helped swing it for games 1 & 3. Game 2 was a washout...
Although turn 1 hex does help to slow down the evolution
Although turn 1 hex does help to slow down the evolution
I haven't lost to it yet when I T1 Hex. Granted, I have been running Turbo Lapras and that deck is built to punish your opponent hard for a slow set up. But regardless, I think that is going to be the optimal play most games if you go first. T1 hit a Hex and hope to get them behind early by putting that first Eevee down T2.
Played a Greninja deck last night with my Sylveon deck. I'm sure my opponent was extremely disappointed when I used Lysandre and Plea-GX to put both of his evolved Greninjas back in his hand. I also beat it with Trevenant Garbodor.
Sorry guys, but Greninja isn't back. I wish it were, I loved playing Greninja and it won me a ton of matches back in December and January. Look for him again in September, but until FoGP rotates, the blue frog just isn't going to have the success he used to have. Plus, it's becoming more of the consensus that Volcanion may be played less because it's almost becoming an autoloss to Garbodor.
Sorry guys, but Greninja isn't back. I wish it were, I loved playing Greninja and it won me a ton of matches back in December and January. Look for him again in September, but until FoGP rotates, the blue frog just isn't going to have the success he used to have. Plus, it's becoming more of the consensus that Volcanion may be played less because it's almost becoming an autoloss to Garbodor.