Raticate and hypnotoxic laser

[ryter78]

Hello again everyone. I'm really excited for the new possibilities of poison with the hypnotoxic laser coming out soon. While thinking of some possibilities a combo came to mind. Raticate has the attack which can do KO -10 while hypnotoxic is basically a +10 damage. That's a KO regardless of the ridiculous amounts of health the defending pokemon may have. With this as the premise I threw together a deck (still pretty rusty at doing so):

ver 1 OLD:

Spoiler

4 Rattata (BC 104)
4 Raticate (BC 105)
3 Venipede (BC 72)
3 Sigilyph (DR 52)
14

4 Rocky Helmet (BC 133)
4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
4 Rescue Scarf (DR 115)
4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Switch (BW 104)
1 Gold Potion (BC 140)
4 Potion (BW 100)
4 Skyla (BC 134)
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
33

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
9 Psychic Energy (BW 109)
13

Now for some explanation. Rocky Helmet can be used with raticate for another annoying knockout or even for stalling as the other player will not want to take the lethal damage. Rescue scarf can be combo'd with venipede for an instant poison (this might be stretching it a bit so any help will be appreciated). Level ball allows searching for any pokemon including sigilyph for countering EXs.

The best situation I suppose would be:
T1: Put Venipede and rescue scarf as active and Rattata on Bench with DCE
T2: Evolve to raticate and attach another energy. 'Sacrifice' the venipede
T3: use super fang from here on out with the hypnotoxic lasers and/or rocky helmets with help of skyla.

It seems like there are a lot of cards just acting like fillers..
Bring on the constructive criticism .


Latest list:

Spoiler

4 Rattata (BC 104)
4 Raticate (BC 105)
4 Sableye (DE 62)
2 Darkrai EX (DE 63)
14

4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Skyla (BC 134)
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
3 Professor Juniper (BW 101)
3 N (NV 92)
1 Dowsing Machine (PS 128)
1 Super Rod (NV 95)
1 Cheren (BC 148)
2 Bianca (EP 90)
3 Dark Patch (DE 93)
2 Energy Switch (BW 94)
2 Aspertia City Gym (BC 127)
34

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
8 Darkness Energy (BW 111)

 

[Salamencetrainer34]

I'd include some eviolites! I am no deck maker, but maybe: -1 rockey helmey
- 1 Rescue scarf

+ 2 eviolite

 

[ryter78]

I'd include some eviolites! I am no deck maker, but maybe: -1 rockey helmey
- 1 Rescue scarf

+ 2 eviolite

Eviolites are pretty handy, it's just that raticate's health is so low anyways I know it'll be KO'd.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Ekklesia]

Eviolite can't be used on Raticate anyways. But have you thought about using Amoongus from Next Destinies to poison as a backup?

 

[ryter78]

Eviolite can't be used on Raticate anyways. But have you thought about using Amoongus from Next Destinies to poison as a backup?

Ah, I didn't know about that card. I think it would work, but I'm not sure about having to really rely on two stage 1's, also if push turned to shove Amoongus isn't the best attacker(But I do have level ball in there..). As well as it's grass type. But I dunno.

 

[Teal]

Ugh... there is so much wrong with that list. Like you having no draw supporters. :B Potion? Gold Potion... wtf? You will always be OHKO'd.

4 Rattata
4 Raticate
4 Ditto BCR
1 Ho-Oh EX
= 13

4 Juniper
4 Bianca
4 N
4 Skyla (BC 134)

4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
(2-)4 Energy Switch
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
2(-3) Super Rod
1 Dowsing Machine (your obvious Ace Spec)
= 34

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
(1-)2 Lightning Energy
1 Water Energy
1 Fighting Energy
1 Psychic Energy
1 Dark Energy
1 Fire Energy
1 Metal Energy
1 Grass Energy
= 13
Not sure how much energy you need, so I just used the same amount. Test, test, test.

=> 60

A "skeleton" I made in just a few minutes. It surely can't be perfect but it sure is better. Ho-Oh EX came to my mind as you can run any energy. You can either attack with it or Energy Switch your Raticate some Energy lategame. xP
Of course, a Ho-Oh start would be problematic, so that's your choice.

Edit: Btw., it is worth noting that even with Dowsing Machine you will only have 5 available Lasers. Another option could be playing Sableye and 4 DCE / rest Dark energy to junk hunt you some laserz. It also gives you an easy way to get TWO lasers into your hand (even back) on a turn you can't OHKO and you potentially gain even two OHKO:s and bypass the 4/5 lasers limitation. I have not studied this deck so these are just ideas though. But... the Dittos. Keep them. They should help you a lot.

 

[ryter78]

Ugh... there is so much wrong with that list. Like you having no draw supporters. :B Potion? Gold Potion... wtf? You will always be OHKO'd.

Spoiler

4 Rattata
4 Raticate
4 Ditto BCR
1 Ho-Oh EX
= 13

4 Juniper
4 Bianca
4 N
4 Skyla (BC 134)

4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
(2-)4 Energy Switch
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
2(-3) Super Rod
1 Dowsing Machine (your obvious Ace Spec)
= 34

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
(1-)2 Lightning Energy
1 Water Energy
1 Fighting Energy
1 Psychic Energy
1 Dark Energy
1 Fire Energy
1 Metal Energy
1 Grass Energy
= 13
Not sure how much energy you need, so I just used the same amount. Test, test, test.

=> 60

A skeleton I made in just a few minutes. It surely can't be perfect but it sure is better. Ho-Oh EX came to my mind as you can run any energy. You can either attack with it or Energy Switch your Raticate some Energy lategame. xP
Of course, a Ho-Oh start would be problematic, so that's your choice.

Yeah I tested the deck and I never had the cards I needed
This should help a lot, thanks. The only thing I fear is running out of lasers

I also find it funny ditto has more health then raticate :I

 

[Machamp The Champion]

Since you have 90% colorless Pokemon, Aspertia City Gym can help save you from some magic numbers. It takes 1 more Night Spear from Darkrai to the bench to KO Rattata or Raticate, and Raticate can survive a Hammerhead from Landorus. I'll just take cards out from Teals list to make room for it.

-1 Skyla
-1 Bianca (14 supporters should be fine)
-1 Lightning Energy

+3 Aspertia City Gym

The reason I have so many is because the format is getting more and more Stadiums, so if they replace your Stadiums with there own, you should have enough to win, or at least stay in, the Stadium war.

Hope I could help

 

[Teal]

Yeah after I posted that and went to spend time with my family I realized that Ditto won't help you unless you play either healing (Potion) or Aspertia as Ditto is there to give your Rattata more HP but when you play Rattata on a Ditto that has 30+ damage counters on it it is KO'd. xP So you either need to run Potions or Aspertias.

I wouldn't take out a Skyla, rather an N or Energy Switch.

But as I said I haven't tested it so that is only something to begin with. I will very probably test it too once Plasma Storm hits PTCGO.

Also if you decide to play Ho-Oh I would definitely put in one Switch as you can get it with Skyla so you can draw into (max.) five "Switches" in case you start with Ho-Oh so you don't need to pay the retreat cost and attach two valuable energy / a DCE. Of couse using the Skyla for Switch costs your supporter but that's the price, what can you do.

 

[ryter78]

Since you have 90% colorless Pokemon, Aspertia City Gym can help save you from some magic numbers. It takes 1 more Night Spear from Darkrai to the bench to KO Rattata or Raticate, and Raticate can survive a Hammerhead from Landorus. I'll just take cards out from Teals list to make room for it.

-1 Skyla
-1 Bianca (14 supporters should be fine)
-1 Lightning Energy

+3 Aspertia City Gym

The reason I have so many is because the format is getting more and more Stadiums, so if they replace your Stadiums with there own, you should have enough to win, or at least stay in, the Stadium war.

Hope I could help

That's an awesome idea!! Since I'm not sure if I really want to do a ho-oh type deck this could kinda become a darkrai variant.

I'll tweak the list and update soon




EDIT + UPDATED LIST
So now the deck is leaning towards a darkrai/sableye variant. Darkrais are in there just as a plan B.

Spoiler

4 Rattata (BC 104)
4 Raticate (BC 105)
4 Sableye (DE 62)
2 Darkrai EX (DE 63)
14

4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Skyla (BC 134)
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
4 Professor Juniper (BW 101)
3 N (NV 92)
1 Dowsing Machine (PS 128)
2 Super Rod (NV 95)
3 Cheren (BC 148)
2 Crushing Hammer (EP 92)
2 Enhanced Hammer (DE 94)
33

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
9 Darkness Energy (BW 111)
13

Main problem i think will be consistency but with plenty of supporters I should be fine... right?

 

[Teal]

If you decide to play Raticate/Darkrai I would forget the Hammers and put in Dark Patches and Energy Switches instead.

 

[anythingbutgrass]

I would leave the enhanced hammers though. Plasma and DCE are about to be huge. I think that you should consider playing some bianca instead of cheren as you will likely be burning through your deck. Level ball, lasers, DCE, energy switch etc. can really let you draw a bunch of cards with bianca if you don't have a juniper. That really depends on your play style though. I'm a little more reserved and play cherens instead of bianca, but if you consistently find yourself at 1-2 cards, think about playing biancas.
-2 crushing hammers
- 1 juniper

+3 some combination of virbank or aspertia city gym.
Also, with 4 skyla and sableye you probably only need one super rod. If you need to super rod for ratata more than once, you're probably down way too many prizes with not enough hyper fang damage.

Edit: Another thought: Plus powers? Could come in handy if you can find the space.

 

[Teal]

Plus Power for what? Raticate places damage counters.
I would leave out the Hammers (especially Enhanched!) and Plasma Energy won't be huge until the next set for pretty sure.

I didn't notice that you took out Aspertias. They need to stay even in a Darkrai variant... Virbank is pretty useless in this deck. And yeah 1 Rod is most probably enough with Junk Hunt AND Darkrai as an attacker.

 

[ryter78]

Edit: Another thought: Plus powers? Could come in handy if you can find the space.

I looked up the rules on that and unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Raticate activates an ability that places counters, so technically it's not doing any damage for the plus power to add on to.
On the note of the Stadiums, I my creatures will have free retreat since raticate already does and darkai will take care of sableye.

I took out the hammers, split cheren in half with some biancas, added dark patches and energy switches.
here's the list

Spoiler

4 Rattata (BC 104)
4 Raticate (BC 105)
4 Sableye (DE 62)
2 Darkrai EX (DE 63)
14

4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Skyla (BC 134)
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
3 Professor Juniper (BW 101)
3 N (NV 92)
1 Dowsing Machine (PS 128)
1 Super Rod (NV 95)
2 Cheren (BC 148)
2 Bianca (EP 90)
3 Dark Patch (DE 93)
2 Energy Switch (BW 94)
33

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
9 Darkness Energy (BW 111)
13

I tested this list up against a RayEels and I almost won, very very close game. I found that skylas and sableye are very important. As long as you can get a DCE and a laser you're golden. Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

On the note of the Stadiums, I my creatures will have free retreat since raticate already does and darkai will take care of sableye.

Aspertia and Virbank don't affect the retreat costs of Pokemon. Aspertia gives colorless Pokemon 20+ HP, and Virbank adds 20 damage to poison. I still recommend Aspertia in the deck for the reasons I explained already.

 

[ryter78]

Aspertia and Virbank don't affect the retreat costs of Pokemon. Aspertia gives colorless Pokemon 20+ HP, and Virbank adds 20 damage to poison. I still recommend Aspertia in the deck for the reasons I explained already.

Oh, I must be really out of it. I think Aspertia will be the best choice since I only have to do ten more damage.
I tested it out again with a few modifications and it ran fairly smooth. When I faced a keldeo deck however it was hard to keep up. The only problem is speed. Dark patches aren't very effective at acceleration.

Latest list, with stadiums:

Spoiler

4 Rattata (BC 104)
4 Raticate (BC 105)
4 Sableye (DE 62)
2 Darkrai EX (DE 63)
14

4 Hypnotoxic Laser (PS 123)
4 Level Ball (ND 89)
4 Skyla (BC 134)
4 Pokemon Catcher (EP 95)
3 Professor Juniper (BW 101)
3 N (NV 92)
1 Dowsing Machine (PS 128)
1 Super Rod (NV 95)
1 Cheren (BC 148)
2 Bianca (EP 90)
3 Dark Patch (DE 93)
2 Energy Switch (BW 94)
2 Aspertia City Gym (BC 127)
34

4 Double Colorless Energy (ND 92)
8 Darkness Energy (BW 111)

 

[PumpedAaron]

Ah! If you had room for Foongus and Amoongus NXD, you'd have more Poison techniques to use than your opponent could handle.
But on the flipside, you'd have to seriously sacrifice your defenses in order to play them. Foongus is another low-HP basic that can get OHKO'd very easily in this format. I suppose if you can consistently set up Raticate's Super Fang every single turn, it shouldn't bother you too much.

Hmm. Your Deck seems set up quite well as it is now. You might consider Ultra Ball instead of Level Ball, though, because it'll put Dark Energy into the discard pile easily than just retreating.

Either -2 Level Ball + 2 Ultra Ball, or
-4 Level Ball +4 Ultra Ball.

You might want to replace Cheren and Bianca with Bicycle as well, since you'll dig deeper into your Deck that way!

-1 Cheren -2 Bianca
+3 Bicycle.

That also works well with Skyla, since it allows you to draw more cards, even after playing a Supporter!

 

[ryter78]

Ah! If you had room for Foongus and Amoongus NXD, you'd have more Poison techniques to use than your opponent could handle.
But on the flipside, you'd have to seriously sacrifice your defenses in order to play them. Foongus is another low-HP basic that can get OHKO'd very easily in this format. I suppose if you can consistently set up Raticate's Super Fang every single turn, it shouldn't bother you too much.

Hmm. Your Deck seems set up quite well as it is now. You might consider Ultra Ball instead of Level Ball, though, because it'll put Dark Energy into the discard pile easily than just retreating.

Either -2 Level Ball + 2 Ultra Ball, or
-4 Level Ball +4 Ultra Ball.

You might want to replace Cheren and Bianca with Bicycle as well, since you'll dig deeper into your Deck that way!

-1 Cheren -2 Bianca
+3 Bicycle.

That also works well with Skyla, since it allows you to draw more cards, even after playing a Supporter!

Somewhere on the forums there is a amoongus and raticate deck, that's pretty handy to look at.

I was thinking about the ultra Ball idea, I might want to up the dark patches if I do that though, we'll see.

i think I'll remove the Biancas and keep the Cheren in terms of Bicycle. I just want to have that chance to have a solid draw three even if it's from a supporter. But on the other side Sableye can grab the Bicycles... pretty handy.
Thanks for the input!