Discussion R.I.P. Korrina

[Sir Charizard]

With the new rotation announced, Furious Fists goes away, along with my Korrina/Focus Sash.

I haven't played since CMT was hot, and returned just a few months ago. I built a Machamp-EX-themed deck, and have added the recently released Carbink/BREAK in anticipation of losing Landorus, but it needs a bit more setup.

I'm assuming I can swap x2 Sash for another pair of Belts, but I also lost Fighting Stafium, Korrina, and Battle Compressor. Is there anything I can replace Korrina and Compressor with and still keep this deck rolling? I'm utterly stumped!

 

[bbninjas]

Moved from the TCG Help & Advice to the TCG Competitive Play as the OP is looking for subjective advice with discussion potential better suited to the competitive forums. ~bbninjas

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I'm glad they are gone. They made fighting decks too consistant and powerful. I think I'm biased because I play with bird Pokemon but I do like my fighting resistance on my birds and I hate the fact that they have so many cards that can easily trample my resistance AND still get the OHKO. I almost wish Strong Energy rotated too.

To be honest though, I think people are glad that most of the big threats are gone. Now we can maybe have fun with the game.

 

[Sir Charizard]

There seemed to be quite the lack of winning/high performing Fighting decks floating around for being too powerful and consistant. I agree that some big threats are gone, but Fighting certainly wasn't one of them. And that doesn't answer my question.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

There seemed to be quite the lack of winning/high performing Fighting decks floating around for being too powerful and consistant. I agree that some big threats are gone, but Fighting certainly wasn't one of them. And that doesn't answer my question.

You have to look at some key things. A lot of fighting pokemon are too good. With Sash, the fighting gym and the really good support fighting has, they can tank a hits and more than likely return a KO on you. Fighting has too much damage output and just recently got more support. I dont think its good to look at winning decks because a lot of good decks dont win but with things like Primal Groudon EX being a thing and going into the next format, you can get 4 strong energy on it, keep a sash on it and just KO things with a 240 beat stick that can't be targeted by trainer cards that can be healed with something like dragonite. I dont like the sound of playing against that.

Now this doesn't cripple fighting decks that hard as much as it hurts Garchomp decks which only survived because of it. Its loss it good for the format because now its as good as every other deck, setup wise. I believe this is the same way people felt when Cyrus's Conspiracy was banned. It was too good for one deck type. This is why people want the Holon Engine to come back to the game or something like it.

 

[akisett]

Yeah, I don't think there will be too much of a problem. Sure, fighting decks will be slower to set up, but so will basically every other deck. With extremely fast Battle Compressor decks which setup T1 gone, like Night March and Vespiplume, decks can afford to be slightly slower compared to before which is a good thing for the format imo.

Psychic will be losing Dimension Valley and Fire will be losing Blacksmith, which could be argued to be a tougher blow than what fighting decks lost. Fighting still has very strong support compared to other types with Strong Energy being a thing and Carbink still being a good way to restore energy even without Battle Compressor.

 

[Otaku]

To be honest though, I think people are glad that most of the big threats are gone. Now we can maybe have fun with the game.

Boy are they going to be disappointed when they realize that most of what made the big threats "big threats" is intact. Well, or else has a substitute that might be a bit inferior, but is still up to the task. For example, Fighting decks will really miss getting a Pokémon + Item in one shot, but before we had Korrina, didn't we just get used to running Skyla? Plus we have Shaymin-EX (ROS) for draw power, so it will less often be a choice between "Supporter for draw or Skyla for exactly what I need."

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Boy are they going to be disappointed when they realize that most of what made the big threats "big threats" is intact. Well, or else has a substitute that might be a bit inferior, but is still up to the task. For example, Fighting decks will really miss getting a Pokémon + Item in one shot, but before we had Korrina, didn't we just get used to running Skyla? Plus we have Shaymin-EX (ROS) for draw power, so it will less often be a choice between "Supporter for draw or Skyla for exactly what I need."

Yeah but with how most people respond, nothing that is outright obvious isn't worth looking in.

 

[Talkingcat]

I'm glad they are gone. They made fighting decks too consistant and powerful.

But except for Donphan, there has not been a tier one fighting deck in the last two years! Most of the time the best fighting decks have been tier three at best. And Donphan was a year and a half ago.

Given that they haven't been very successful, surely you can't say that they have been "too consistent and powerful".

 

[Otaku]

But except for Donphan, there has not been a tier one fighting deck in the last two years! Most of the time the best fighting decks have been tier three at best. And Donphan was a year and a half ago.

Given that they haven't been very successful, surely you can't say that they have been "too consistent and powerful".

Landobats?

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

But except for Donphan, there has not been a tier one fighting deck in the last two years! Most of the time the best fighting decks have been tier three at best. And Donphan was a year and a half ago.

Given that they haven't been very successful, surely you can't say that they have been "too consistent and powerful".

Fighting has some of the best support in the game as has very good attackers and support many stages. It support is almost SP like. Doesn't matter where the decks place on the tier list, their support is godlike.

 

[Asclepius24]

Fighting has some of the best support in the game as has very good attackers and support many stages. It support is almost SP like. Doesn't matter where the decks place on the tier list, their support is godlike.

And having godlike support doesn't make a deck or type overpowered. Fighting does have a lot of support, but it makes no sense to says it's "too good" and has "too much damage output" when it's not winning. Maybe it needs that much support to even be on the fringes like it is.

Groudon is tough to play against because it runs so much differently than most decks and it can completely roll over decks that aren't prepared for it. That doesn't mean Fighting is too strong in general. It can take a lot of skill to beat Groudon, but it clearly can be done relatively consistently or it would win more and more players would run it.

 

[PMJ]

And having godlike support doesn't make a deck or type overpowered. Fighting does have a lot of support, but it makes no sense to says it's "too good" and has "too much damage output" when it's not winning. Maybe it needs that much support to even be on the fringes like it is.

Fighting isn't winning because both types Fighting represents--Fighting and Rock/Ground--are weak to Psychic (Night March) and Grass (Vespiquen). It's really unfortunate that Korrina is rotating because if Fire decks make a comeback to keep Mega Sceptile and Yanmega BREAK in check, Zygarde-EX could easily start dominating. As for Primal Groudon, I am gonna try and make it work because it really is a whole different kind of deck (not to mention super fun) but losing Korrina is awful.

 

[SpoonLarry]

Fighting lost a lot but got some stuff in return, Carbink will be very strong in the new rotation due to the increased popularity in EX Pokemon. I think Groudon will be strongest contender in the new rotation but it loses hard charm which is probably a good thing with lack of item removal, makes him way to hard to take down imo. But I think the new speed gauge for the meta is going to be greninja, its impossible to setup in one turn but can consistently setup turn 2 and turn 3 at worst, I feel like if your deck is slower than that then you give greninja way to much momentum and he becomes uncontrollable, Parallel city helps some in the match up as groudon doesn't typically require a big bench so you can use it as a pseudo hard charm while also throwing away something greninja might snipe on your bench, while its reverse side works extremely well against M Ray and Raichu. I wouldn't say greninja is a counter it just gets by most of the ways groudon would typically stall to power up, anything short of getting a Garbodor on board or getting lucky with some energy discard mega turbo max elixir plays will make short work of groudon.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

And having godlike support doesn't make a deck or type overpowered. Fighting does have a lot of support, but it makes no sense to says it's "too good" and has "too much damage output" when it's not winning. Maybe it needs that much support to even be on the fringes like it is.

Groudon is tough to play against because it runs so much differently than most decks and it can completely roll over decks that aren't prepared for it. That doesn't mean Fighting is too strong in general. It can take a lot of skill to beat Groudon, but it clearly can be done relatively consistently or it would win more and more players would run it.

Well, for me, Groudon is pretty favorable since I want to play the slower matchup so I'm looking forward to a format where fighting isn't as strong, though I wish they didn't have strong energy. A deck doesn't have to be winning to be considered too good.

 

[SpoonLarry]

Well, for me, Groudon is pretty favorable since I want to play the slower matchup so I'm looking forward to a format where fighting isn't as strong, though I wish they didn't have strong energy. A deck doesn't have to be winning to be considered too good.

So fighting has basically done nothing for quite awhile now, they are about to lose some pretty big cards and you wish that they also didn't have strong energy and its a favorable match? What deck exactly are you running? Sounds like it isn't good against anything. Just throw a Jirachi in your deck if special energy are such a big deal.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

So fighting has basically done nothing for quite awhile now, they are about to lose some pretty big cards and you wish that they also didn't have strong energy and its a favorable match? What deck exactly are you running? Sounds like it isn't good against anything. Just throw a Jirachi in your deck if special energy are such a big deal.

Strong energy is just a bit too good. +10 damage is fine but +20 is too good considering how good draw is. They do lose a lot damage output but they got new cards that are pretty good. My deck is pretty good against a lot of things but I dont expect you to understand that based on your comment. Not sure what your issue is against me but it needs to stop.

I also have no issues dealing with special energy so I dont know where you got that idea from. The problem is the stackable +20 damage with energy recovery options.

 

[poke4trade]

Fighting is going to be good in the next format cause of Carbink. If players don't play garbador, and it is an ex heavy format, carbink is going to be incredibly annoying because like lysandre, Hex is going to be harder to find. My guess is that Carbink/zygarde will end up in a Teir 2 position in the next format because there are some decent counters to the card like yanmega.

In a Mega Ray Ray match, basically they will have dig for the hex or lysandre and usually by the time they get it, the opponent will know and just N them, at least that is how it happened prior to BC. It was hard to keep those cards in hand or get them in the discard, unless a bit of luck was on your side.

If Korinia was around fighting would be a lot better. RIP Korinia as that is a huge blow to fighting decks. :0(

 

[poke4trade]

Strong energy is just a bit too good. +10 damage is fine but +20 is too good considering how good draw is. They do lose a lot damage output but they got new cards that are pretty good. My deck is pretty good against a lot of things but I dont expect you to understand that based on your comment. Not sure what your issue is against me but it needs to stop.

I also have no issues dealing with special energy so I dont know where you got that idea from. The problem is the stackable +20 damage with energy recovery options.

I tend to disagree. Assault vest is a very good hard counter. Have you ever put an assault vest on Diancie EX against a fighting deck and then healed with fair drop? It will make trainers a bit grumpy. What's even funnier is doing that against Yvelatal. -90 + a 50 heal. I think without muscle band that the special energy +20 will be pretty reasonable and balanced. With muscle band + fighting stadium + Strong Energy it has always been a bit silly because of the potential OHKO a lighting EX or Darkria EX on first turn. But fighting fury belts I feel are a bit more balance as it forces a lot more 3 or 2 shots. And without Muscle band and fighting stadium in the mix, Strong energy makes a lot more sense. It gives some weakness pokemon a bit of a chance. Plus the fighting pokemon are still hitting for a reasonable amount of damage off the weakness, but are not in OHKO with a single energy drop. I think that is a reasonable.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I tend to disagree. Assault vest is a very good hard counter. Have you ever put an assault vest on Diancie EX against a fighting deck and then healed with fair drop? It will make trainers a bit grumpy. What's even funnier is doing that against Yvelatal. -90 + a 50 heal. I think without muscle band that the special energy +20 will be pretty reasonable and balanced. With muscle band + fighting stadium + Strong Energy it has always been a bit silly because of the potential OHKO a lighting EX or Darkria EX on first turn. But fighting fury belts I feel are a bit more balance as it forces a lot more 3 or 2 shots. And without Muscle band and fighting stadium in the mix, Strong energy makes a lot more sense. It gives some weakness pokemon a bit of a chance. Plus the fighting pokemon are still hitting for a reasonable amount of damage off the weakness, but are not in OHKO with a single energy drop. I think that is a reasonable.

I've always favored FFB over Assault Vest because the +40 health is nice ad gives more bulk against more things, though Assault Vest has its place because on my Ho-Oh EX, Carbink can't damage me if it has a strong since I take 60 less damage and Groudon loses a lot of attacking option since it can't OHKO Ho-Oh without without the stadium and like 2 strong energy but I would almost rather to have FFB just for bulk. The matchup is still scary but if its something to worry about, people can just play Ninetales.

I also don't Diancie. my only deck is pretty much Ho-Oh EX