PTCG Live Will Make It Insanely Affordable to Build Pokemon TCG Decks!

And I'm talking about that too, maybe read my previous posts before dismissing them. There's a delicate balance between profit and unbalanced resource drip that forces players to buy resources. This is something problematic given that some social media personalities are praising the app for "not having microtransactions" when those microtransactions are sometimes the only way players around the world are able to get resources for their accounts - not everyone has stores with codes available near them. Old PTCGO was already bad regarding the slow drip of resources, but the trading aspect significantly sped up player progress because decks were significantly cheaper than the value that they currently have in TCG Live. The number of resources you have to invest to get a meta deck are outrageous with how many little resources they are giving you. Microtransactions are not the devil as long as they're properly priced and allow players to reduce the time spent farming and getting resources instead of actually playing the game.
I was replying to a post complaining about the scheme that TCG apps use and saying that Live seems to be doing the same, which is a bad thing according to who I was replying to.

You replied to me saying that they should be doing what those other apps are doing.

Do you see the disconnect?

Also, can you post examples showing how Master Duel is cheaper than Live?
 
I was replying to a post complaining about the scheme that TCG apps use and saying that Live seems to be doing the same, which is a bad thing according to who I was replying to.

You replied to me saying that they should be doing what those other apps are doing.

Do you see the disconnect?

Also, can you post examples showing how Master Duel is cheaper than Live?
I can't see any disconnect because I wasn't agreeing with what the other user was saying, I was picking up from the same thread you started.

You also asked me to reply a strawman. Nowhere did I ever say that "Master Duel is cheaper than TCG Live", I said that games like it have already demonstrated that companies can make CCG apps that give enough resources for the time investment they ask you in return. You didn't address my other arguments either, particularly the lack of card codes around the world, locking down the potential progress of any player in other countries.
 
I can't see any disconnect because I wasn't agreeing with what the other user was saying, I was picking up from the same thread you started.

You also asked me to reply a strawman. Nowhere did I ever say that "Master Duel is cheaper than TCG Live", I said that games like it have already demonstrated that companies can make CCG apps that give enough resources for the time investment they ask you in return. You didn't address my other arguments either, particularly the lack of card codes around the world, locking down the potential progress of any player in other countries.
We are arguing two different things and don't even actually disagree on the points we're saying, so there's nothing to discuss here.

At least... I think. You're kinda all over the place and seem to shift what you're saying for the sake of a response. I did find one thing I guess, and that's the implication that Master Duel rewards the grind, which is kinda hilarious if you've played more than a week. The Premium Battle Pass in Live also seems fine, so I don't see the huge issue.
 
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I'm not talking about the UI. That is bad. I'm talking more about the fact that people seem upset that you have to grind to be completely F2P.

Well, at least the outrage might spawn a truly free fan alternative that gets popular.

Also, I hate the "biggest IP on Earth" argument, though mainly due to people using it for the main games. Yes, it is, and that's why nobody complains about the merchandise. That's where like 70% of the money comes from, so it's where 70% of the effort goes.
based 'biggest media IP on earth' argument hater spotted. good to see someone else like me. the argument is so blasphemously stupid and easily discountable it's astounding it's becoming one of the main rhetorics among Pokemon fans
 
Also want to add so we're all clear: The system they're using for this would be better if MTX were an option... but only if done right. The thing about the 5 card packs is that you still get a reverse and a rare or better in every pack, so if the in-game packs have 10 cards then the game needs to sell them for less than a dollar basically to make sense before you've bought 400 codes.
 
based 'biggest media IP on earth' argument hater spotted. good to see someone else like me. the argument is so blasphemously stupid and easily discountable it's astounding it's becoming one of the main rhetorics among Pokemon fans
The reason people like me point out that it’s a big franchise is to demonstrate that they have the reasources to produce quality products, but don’t. Like it or not, this is true; they don’t care to hire more developers or artists or better tools. It’s their choice, but it’s the choice to be cheap and crappy. They bit the bullet and accepted that criticism, so I will say it again and again when I see stuff like this.
 
The reason people like me point out that it’s a big franchise is to demonstrate that they have the reasources to produce quality products, but don’t. Like it or not, this is true; they don’t care to hire more developers or artists or better tools. It’s their choice, but it’s the choice to be cheap and crappy. They bit the bullet and accepted that criticism, so I will say it again and again when I see stuff like this.
It's mostly annoying in the context of the main games, where none of those are the problem. That said, it doesn't change the fact that they're not gonna put more proportionally into one part of the IP than what it makes just because they technically have the money. If the TCG is only worth like 10% of the total revenue, it's foolish to put more than 5% of the revenue in, for example.

BTW, I recommend tempering expectations I'm comparison to Master Duel specifically; that game has vastly different design goals that require higher investment than than PTCGL would ever have had, "biggest IP ever" or not.
 
Also want to add so we're all clear: The system they're using for this would be better if MTX were an option... but only if done right. The thing about the 5 card packs is that you still get a reverse and a rare or better in every pack, so if the in-game packs have 10 cards then the game needs to sell them for less than a dollar basically to make sense before you've bought 400 codes.
If the PTCGO's Gem debacle is anything to go by then there's a very high chance that it WOULDN'T be done right. I'm sure we all remember the math that went into figuring out the rate money spent on Gems, the Gems spent on packs, and discovering that TPCi had absolute gall to charge the MSRP of a physical pack for a digital one.
They bit the bullet and accepted that criticism, so I will say it again and again when I see stuff like this.
Considering how quickly people on social media sites will defend any decision made by any of the Pokémon-affiliated companies it feels like they honestly don’t care.

And considering the reactions I‘m seeing on Twitter I’m disappointed but not shocked, I‘m mostly seeing people say how excited they are for Live’s eventual wide release and, some people pointing out that the UI and avatars need a rework, and only one person bringing up the absolute nonsense about the 5-cards-per-pack bit and the 400-pack limit.
 
If the PTCGO's Gem debacle is anything to go by then there's a very high chance that it WOULDN'T be done right. I'm sure we all remember the math that went into figuring out the rate money spent on Gems, the Gems spent on packs, and discovering that TPCi had absolute gall to charge the MSRP of a physical pack for a digital one.

Considering how quickly people on social media sites will defend any decision made by any of the Pokémon-affiliated companies it feels like they honestly don’t care.

And considering the reactions I‘m seeing on Twitter I’m disappointed but not shocked, I‘m mostly seeing people say how excited they are for Live’s eventual wide release and, some people pointing out that the UI and avatars need a rework, and only one person bringing up the absolute nonsense about the 5-cards-per-pack bit and the 400-pack limit.
And here's the other annoying thing about the community: if anything has any problems, everyone MUST be outraged or they're just being shills. Nobody is allowed to enjoy anything until we start getting completely flawless products.

Between the actual shills and the anti-shills, this may be one of the worst communities in existence.
 
Whoever here has several hundred Hattrem V PROMO's is going to be a very, very rich man after they get ground into dust...
(I believe it was AshCo?)
Also, if that Zacian & Zamazenta is one of the eight decks you get when you start out, you guys may want to hold out on judging how hard it will be to get key cards until you see all the other decks. Plus, we still haven't seen any class 3 decks in the physical tcg, but if the class 2 decks and trainers toolkits are anything to go off of, grinding for cards to build your competitive decks may become a moot point for those who are serious enough about competitive gameplay to shell out real world cash to buy a physical deck that you can also play online.
To my untrained eye and layman's perspective, this system looks like it requires as much of a real-world investment as the old business model. It also doesn't look any uglier than the old client, feels far more streamlined due to the lack of trading, and is not tied to how much certain cards are valued by certain players. Limiting the number of packs you can open for each product? That's their problem, I guess, but 400 packs is 11 booster boxes plus a pre-release kit, so most players won't reach it. As for whether it's better or worse, there's plenty of food for thought on this thread. At least Water Pokemon Master seems optimistic about it. In any case, its not going to be a perfect program, but people are still going to enjoy it, and, with in-person events starting to open up, those who don't like the new client will likely be able to attend in-person events if they do so. In any case, I myself will probably not be using this client any time soon.
 
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We need a popular fan client that just gives all cards for free, since it seems like many people are very upset that a for-profit company likes to profit...

The early easy grind is usually the result of early resources being thrown at you, not price hikes after the fact.
"You criticize a company, yet still want their product. Hurr hurr I am indeed so intelligent for my ability to create strawman arguments"
 
And here's the other annoying thing about the community: if anything has any problems, everyone MUST be outraged or they're just being shills. Nobody is allowed to enjoy anything until we start getting completely flawless products.

Between the actual shills and the anti-shills, this may be one of the worst communities in existence.
And this is where I break out into maniac laughter, reach for the master’s prized bludgeoning oar set on the mantlepiece, and strike a menacing pose(if anyone gets this reference, I tip my hat to you).

People enjoying things is fine when they recognize the problems with the media they consume and voice those problems in a way that reaches the ears of the companies involved. What isn’t fine is the blind, pseudo-religious level of consumption of media and empty praise for said media that’s become commonplace in society today. The former encourages companies to address the issues their products may have and can make the product better for everyone, the latter only encourages companies to pump out low-effort schlock that eventually pleases no one.
Whoever here has several hundred Hattrem V PROMO's is going to be a very, very rich man after they get ground into dust...
(I believe it was AshCo?)
IIRC excess cards aren’t being transferred PTCGL and there no compensation will be given for having those excess cards in your collection.
 
"You criticize a company, yet still want their product. Hurr hurr I am indeed so intelligent for my ability to create strawman arguments"
I said nothing even remotely close to that.

And this is where I break out into maniac laughter, reach for the master’s prized bludgeoning oar set on the mantlepiece, and strike a menacing pose(if anyone gets this reference, I tip my hat to you).

People enjoying things is fine when they recognize the problems with the media they consume and voice those problems in a way that reaches the ears of the companies involved. What isn’t fine is the blind, pseudo-religious level of consumption of media and empty praise for said media that’s become commonplace in society today. The former encourages companies to address the issues their products may have and can make the product better for everyone, the latter only encourages companies to pump out low-effort schlock that eventually pleases no one.

IIRC excess cards aren’t being transferred PTCGL and there no compensation will be given for having those excess cards in your collection.
Most people don't buy 400 packs/codes per set. That's why not many are complaining about it. I also don't think that the 5 cards per pack thing is all that widely known.
 
Also, if that Zacian & Zamazenta is one of the eight decks you get when you start out, you guys may want to hold out on judging how hard it will be to get key cards until you see all the other decks. Plus, we still haven't seen any class 3 decks in the physical tcg, but if the class 2 decks and trainers toolkits are anything to go off of, grinding for cards to build your competitive decks may become a moot point for those who are serious enough about competitive gameplay to shell out real world cash to buy a physical deck that you can also play online.
There’s a pic floating around showing off 9 decks (one of which I assume is a tutorial deck), the decks are…

* Zacian & Zamazenta (as seen in the article)
* Blissey V
* Decidueye & Inteleon
* Inteleon VMAX
* Rapid Strike Malamar
* Rapid Strike Urshifu VMAX
* Shadow Rider Calyrex VMAX
* Single Strike Urshifu VMAX
* Suicune V

And, as also shown off in article, the decklists aren’t 1-1 copies of competitive decks and are more in-line with the League Battle decks so tehre will still be some form of cost to making them competition-ready.
 
The reason people like me point out that it’s a big franchise is to demonstrate that they have the reasources to produce quality products, but don’t. Like it or not, this is true; they don’t care to hire more developers or artists or better tools. It’s their choice, but it’s the choice to be cheap and crappy. They bit the bullet and accepted that criticism, so I will say it again and again when I see stuff like this.
There are multiple sections of Pokemon, all made by different people, and only one of which actually owns the money. You are intentionally limiting your expectations if you suddenly expect TPCI to randomly give ANY dev team more time or money. You're also naive, selfish and petty to have no knowledge how a dev team works and call them lazy- or anything of the sorts. You realize literally everyone that makes a game works harder than any living CEO has in a day in their life, right? Much less so you? Unless you're talking about nintendo/TPCI. In which case, you're probably right. They COULD let gamefreak have more than a year and half to two years for a game, but won't. They COULD just give PTCGL devs more money but obviously won't. Clearly we have no say in these things, sadly..
 
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There’s a pic floating around showing off 9 decks (one of which I assume is a tutorial deck), the decks are…

* Zacian & Zamazenta (as seen in the article)
* Blissey V
* Decidueye & Inteleon
* Inteleon VMAX
* Rapid Strike Malamar
* Rapid Strike Urshifu VMAX
* Shadow Rider Calyrex VMAX
* Single Strike Urshifu VMAX
* Suicune V

And, as also shown off in article, the decklists aren’t 1-1 copies of competitive decks and are more in-line with the League Battle decks so tehre will still be some form of cost to making them competition-ready.
Basically starting off with all of the important staples is huge though.
 
There are multiple sections of Pokemon, all made by different people, and only one of which actually owns the money. You are intentionally limiting your expectations if you suddenly expect TPCI to randomly give ANY dev team more time or money. You're also naive, selfish and petty to have no knowledge how a dev team works and call them lazy- or anything of the sorts. You realize literally everyone that makes a game works harder than any living CEO has in a day in their life, right? Much less so you? Unless you're talking about nintendo/TPCI. In which case, you're probably right. They COULD let gamefreak have more than a year and half to two years for a game, but won't. They COULD just give PTCGL devs more money but obviously won't. Clearly we have no say in these things, sadly..
Point out where I said they were lazy? Oh wait, you can’t, because I never blamed the devs. I said the company, aka those who have the power to choose where the money goes, hired too few developers and didn’t use their money to use the best tools available (and not in an appropriate time frame, I would also argue) in addition to asking for a poorly designed product in the first place (a standard mobile game). You agree that the Pokemon company made a choice not to put the money into making a good experience for their online client and guess what, I get to criticize it on the grounds that as a company they could do better.
 
Really not be rude here but the avatars are still so ugly, is it really expensive to hire good artists these days? Also, the platform looks a bit weird and I prefer the traditional one. I am one of those players that like to show off my bling with decks solely consisting of alternate arts and secret rares and I am sure they would not look good on this platform. To be honest, I do not care if they want to profit or not and if it's good then you can take my money. I really expected more. Ah well, at least there is still a ranked system.
 
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