Discussion Possible Broken Cards from Sun and Moon Set

poke4trade

poke4trade

Raising Ash
Member
Here are the two cards that I think will make players a bit agitated because of Forest of Giant plants. I don't particular like these cards in the set. And as always, I think pokemon can do better. Here are my thoughts, tell me what you think?

#8 Tsareena – Grass – HP140
Stage 2 – Evolves from Steenee

Ability: Queenly Majesty
Once during your turn (before your attack), when you play this card from your hand to evolve 1 of your Pokemon, you may look at your opponent’s hand and discard 1 card.

[G][C][C] Trop Kick: 80 damage. Heal 20 damage from this Pokemon and remove all Special Conditions from this Pokemon.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2

You will red card your opponent, and then destroy their hand at start of game. After that, you will simply charge the pokemon up and start taking knock outs. It will be really easy to accomplish this on turn one. Being able to have the capability of destroying players hand on turn one can be upsetting. I don't like the balance. I find it odd that they developed this card. But ya, complete capability of destroying your opponents hand on first turn. After, you just delinquent the opponent never letting the opponent into the game.

Card Number 2

#4 Decidueye-GX – Grass – HP 240
Stage 2 – Evolves from Dartrix

Ability: Feather Arrow
You can use this power once during your turn. Choose one of your opponent’s Pokemon and place 2 damage counters on it.

[G][C][C] Razor Leaf: 90 damage.

[G] Hollow Hunt GX: Put 3 cards from your discard pile into your hand. (You can’t use more than 1 GX attack in a game.)

When your Pokemon-GX is Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2

The card is complete mayhem. You pair it with Latios EX and you donk your opponent on first turn. It will be easy to do in expanded. In standard it will have some complication, but will yield better than lesser results. Because of forest of giant plants and devolution, in standard, you will evolve, and then devolve thereby donking your opponent on first turn and finishing them off with Latios EX.

When these kind of cards were around you played Wobufet to get around these scenarios. In other words you played anti cards which eliminated a lot fun style of decks. I really liked playing pokemon the last few months. I liked the balance. I hate when you have to play such anti meta decks to get around one or two decks. I think with these cards coming up in the new sun and moon set might have some game balance issues. But I also know you have to wait and see. Hit me up. How do you feel about it?
 
Yeah YellowSwellow did a video on Tsereena. Granted he's a skilled and experienced player, but he showed that he was able to discard all of his opponent's cards on his first turn. No question, pokemon dropped the ball on this one. They really should be criticized for not catching this in testing.
 
The simple answer is to ban FoGP. I know I'm looking forward to using Decidueye-GX and that's because of FoGP.
 
Interesting - I was simply focused on banning Tsereena. There are other cards that give type specific advantages (Scorched Earth, Winona, can't think of the name of the card that allows you to get 4 Lightning energy from your discard), so the fact that FOGP gives grass types a decided advantage is not without precedent. Either way, it's pretty clear that something here needs to be banned.

The bigger problem is that this card even made it out of the design stage and actually got printed. Because there are two options here:

1) they completely knew about what Tsereena would do and allowed it anyway.
2) they missed it in testing and failed to fully comprehend its effectiveness.

From a customer's perspective, I'm not happy with either alternative. One scenario involves the rise of disruption cards and their increase in quantity and potency; the other involves a lack of caring about the quality of their product.
 
Doesn't devolution spray state that you can't evolve that Pokémon this turn again (unless I am wrong about the rule or am looking at the wrong latios ex)
 
21times said:
Interesting - I was simply focused on banning Tsereena. There are other cards that give type specific advantages (Scorched Earth, Winona, can't think of the name of the card that allows you to get 4 Lightning energy from your discard), so the fact that FOGP gives grass types a decided advantage is not without precedent. Either way, it's pretty clear that something here needs to be banned.

The bigger problem is that this card even made it out of the design stage and actually got printed. Because there are two options here:

1) they completely knew about what Tsereena would do and allowed it anyway.
2) they missed it in testing and failed to fully comprehend its effectiveness.

From a customer's perspective, I'm not happy with either alternative. One scenario involves the rise of disruption cards and their increase in quantity and potency; the other involves a lack of caring about the quality of their product.
Click to expand...

I question any of the cards they printed are actually tested. After all, Lysandre's Trump Card got printed and it was banned mid season. There is a normal rule of thumb I like to go by. If ANYTHING older interferes with the sales of something new, the older thing will be removed or not supported anymore. From a business standpoint, banning FoGP should be banned since the card is like 2 years old. It will also nerf related grass decks in general, which tend to be decent and hurts Vileplume a lot.

To be honest with you, Evolutions seems like the most balanced set printed in years.

Swampert Fan 101 said:
Doesn't devolution spray state that you can't evolve that Pokémon this turn again (unless I am wrong about the rule or am looking at the wrong latios ex)
Click to expand...

It has the normal evolution rules applied to it but FoGP gets around it. The Latios EX they are talking about has the attack Fast Raid, that can be used on the very first turn of the game.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
I question any of the cards they printed are actually tested. After all, Lysandre's Trump Card got printed and it was banned mid season. There is a normal rule of thumb I like to go by. If ANYTHING older interferes with the sales of something new, the older thing will be removed or not supported anymore. From a business standpoint, banning FoGP should be banned since the card is like 2 years old. It will also nerf related grass decks in general, which tend to be decent and hurts Vileplume a lot.

To be honest with you, Evolutions seems like the most balanced set printed in years.



It has the normal evolution rules applied to it but FoGP gets around it. The Latios EX they are talking about has the attack Fast Raid, that can be used on the very first turn of the game.
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks
 
The krookorok from S&M base also has an attack for a DCE that discards a random card from your opponent's hand which you could find helpful potentially on top.
 
Without cards that give you the chance to draw almost your entire deck in one turn, which are almost non-existent come BKT-On, it takes more time to reliably set up 4 Decidueye than it does to set up a Solgaleo-GX w/ aid from Alolan Raticate and Dragonair SM(unless you have the combination of Shaymin-EX(projected to leave Standard come next September) and top-deck-luck that is easier to pull off in BW-On than it is in current Standard because of Colress(which desperately needs a reprint now that he appeared in the video game version of SM)...

Same goes for Tsareena...

^ Even then, w/ Octillery still legal in the projected BKT-On metagame that is likely to come next season, the format is still fast enough to make setting up 4 Stage 2s at once easier said than done, as your opponent will more likely than not have his or her side's setup complete before 4 stage 2s are up on your side, provided you're not lucky enough to get 4 Rowlets, 1 Alolan Rattata, and either 1 FoGP(if Expanded) or 1 Colress or 1 Sycamore/Juniper on initial hand, and 2-3 Timer Balls(and 4-5 lucky heads out of a maximum 6 flips) and either 4 Rare Candies(if not Expanded) or 4 Dartix after the Sycamore, and it's not likely to get all those cards in a sufficient amount of turns and beat your opponent to completing the setup of his her strategy to victory w/o an opponent error, opponent bad hand, and/or Shaymin-EX(due to leave Standard come BKT-On), so in my opinion, THOSE cards are not broken at all...
 
Last edited:
Vileplume was another card considered extremely broken by people when AOR leaks were revealed. It's a card that's stayed fairly okay throughout its life, but is also very inconsistent. You have to devote your whole deck to getting just one out, let alone 3 or 4 in the case of those examples up there.

The only cards that looks kind of broken IMO would be;

Solgaleo, and I think even that's kind of fair considering it's a stage 2 and has weakness to Volcanion.

Alolan Muk looks incredibly irritating, and is definitely a future Lysandre target because there's no other way to turn the ability off during your turn without Hex. Though, on the plus side, it only blocks basics.

I feel that Dragonair might have synergy with future cards that make it broken. In fact, considering it just says "energy," there may be something now that benefits.

But I think that's about it.
 
Most of these problems I've stated from the above is due to draw support, Shaymin EX and Forest of Giant Plants. The ability to draw super quickly and play Forest of Giant Plants is what lets these scenario's play out. Without same turn draw support and evolution it makes these scenario's harder to perform. I'm a big shaymin EX fan, but it does beg the question should first turn draw support be a chance issue versus a guarantee? It also begs the question on wether turn 1 evolutions distorts game mechanics?

I do not like games whereby you watch your opponent play. In expanded, there is a lot of watching your opponent play. It is not a two player game, if only one player gets to play for the entire game.

Either way, these are all very doable decks. They will yield well results. But ya, that baby volcanion and yveltal start is going to make me agitated a bit when they donk it on the first turn and I didn't draw a pokemon onto my bench. Or when my Sycamore and Ultra ball gets discarded out of my hand on turn one. These type of plays just bug me a bit because they won't be that hard to perform.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top