Discussion Lightning in the New Format

Not Cool!

Not Cool!

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'm surprised that with the predicted dominance of Mega Ray, no one has talked about Lightnings types in this format. I've heard scarce talks about using Zebstrika (Zap Zone prevents Flash Ray and things of that nature), but Lightning has some viable contenders, including Magnezone for energy acceleration, Eelektross (for moving to Active, but probably not too useful since you'd be running two Stage 2 lines), M Ampharos, Raichu and Raichu BREAK (Circle Circuit ftw), Raikou, and the aforementioned Zebstrika.

Of course, a Lightning deck would be completely crushed by Zygarde and Fighting type decks in general, even if they are losing a bit of support with Korrina leaving. This is where I mention Flash Energy, the [L] type Special Energy card that negates weakness. Circle Circuit can easily reach 100 (160 with Sky Field) and OHKO a lot of non-EX mons, and hits everyone's favorite Set Up card and everyone's favorite legend for weakness. You could tech Altaria to combat the Lightning weakness, but there are so many ways to get around that. Hex Maniac, Silent Lab, and its frail 90HP leaves it weaker than Shaymin. Lysandre it for a KO with Circle Circuit or Zebstrika's Lightning Crash (which does extra damage anyway because it has [F] resistance).

Lightning seems to have a very bright (lol) future ahead of it, with the ability to bypass weakness with Flash Energy and crush Mega Ray for weakness. Also, none of the Lightning types from Japan's Steam Siege (there are 3 Lightning types in the set, and it's just the Ampharos line) are very competitive.
 
I don't think Flash Energy will be optimal play. Without Muscle Band taking up the tool slot, a couple of Weakness Policy for the matchup would probably be better, in my opinion. Even better, a Rough Seas, defensive variant could be really nice, because you can take advantage of a lot of the same cards, while also countering [F] types easier.
 
bbninjas said:
I don't think Flash Energy will be optimal play. Without Muscle Band taking up the tool slot, a couple of Weakness Policy for the matchup would probably be better, in my opinion. Even better, a Rough Seas, defensive variant could be really nice, because you can take advantage of a lot of the same cards, while also countering [F] types easier.
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Why don't you feel Flash Energy will be an optimal play? That tool slot would be a lot better with something like Float Stone or Fighting Fury Belt in lieu of Weakness Policy. Rough Seas is a really solid card in this deck actually, and it can help a lot when your opponent has turns where they can't attack or setup properly. What's good is that Primal Groudon, another top contender in next year's format, doesn't resist Lightning for some reason, but it still can't be one-shotted by any of our attackers just yet. The closest it comes to is a 160 with a maxed out Sky Field (170 with Fighting Fury Belt, but it wouldn't need FFI in that situation because it still dies to PGro.

LightningCloud224 said:
Hate to ride the hype train but garbodor shuts down key abilities making electric pretty helpless.
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200px-LysandreFlashfire90.jpg

M Ampharos, Raikou and Raichu + BREAK still exist.
 
Not Cool! said:
Why don't you feel Flash Energy will be an optimal play? That tool slot would be a lot better with something like Float Stone or Fighting Fury Belt in lieu of Weakness Policy. Rough Seas is a really solid card in this deck actually, and it can help a lot when your opponent has turns where they can't attack or setup properly. What's good is that Primal Groudon, another top contender in next year's format, doesn't resist Lightning for some reason, but it still can't be one-shotted by any of our attackers just yet. The closest it comes to is a 160 with a maxed out Sky Field (170 with Fighting Fury Belt, but it wouldn't need FFI in that situation because it still dies to PGro.
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Flash Energy is easily discarded or blocked by notable cards (Enhanced Hammer, Jirachi Promo, Barbaracle), so in my opinion, it's better to run something harder to discard (like a Tool) that gives you the same effect. Weakness Policy has the added bonus for clutch situations for Shaymin-EX when against other [L] decks. You would also run multiple tools obviously, but I don't think there are any other tools absolutely vital in the [F] matchup. (Besides, you don't have to attach Weakness Policy to every Pokemon in those matchups, sometimes choosing a different tool would be better.)
 
Lightning lacks a heavy hitter EX like it has in Manectric/M Manectric. Raichu/Raikou/Zebstrika/Jolteon EX are all decent, but they're more of support attackers, rather than something you build a deck around. Sure there's Raikou/Magnezone or Raichu/Skyfield but even if those can KO a Mega Ray, they will struggle heavily against the rest of the Meta. Lightning will need to make a come back in a future set.
 
I have been playing with a Kingdra EX/Magnezone/Energy pouch deck. The thing that really screwed it over was having it's energy pouches removed.

I had a 4-8 split water/electric energy and ran a copy of Glaceon EX and Jolteon EX as well as a couple of Raikou for non EX attacker purposes. You could also use Regiice I suppose and even double manaphy EX could be a thing. with it. Not quite water toolbox, but similar.

Magnezone and four energy pouch is brutal whoever you use to attack, especially now they can't dump your energy pouch off. And of course don't forget clemont.

Only problem is Kingdra won't be effected by rough seas.
 
Guys, if you had to choose between Raichu and Zebstrika to use them as a [L] type tech in your deck, which one would you choose?
 
Javi Blizz said:
Guys, if you had to choose between Raichu and Zebstrika to use them as a [L] type tech in your deck, which one would you choose?
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@Javi Blizz That's a good question!

At this moment in time. my preference is Zebstrika.

This is based on Speed Rayquaza being tipped for top tier next format, against which Zebstrika hits 220 damage to OHKO Mega Rayquaza-EX. Unfortunately, even with a full bench of 5 Pokemon, Raichu only manages to hit for 200 damage - painfully whiffing key knock-outs (this problem is compounded by Muscle Band's rotation). Furthermore, Zebstrika has the Zap Zone Ability which ignores Altaria's Clear Humming, for example, and allows Zebstrika (and your other [L] Pokemon, if any) to hit for weakness.

On the other hand Raichu has 90 HP, making it searchable via Level Ball, free-retreat and is more effective against Pokemon that don't have [F] resistance. However, the point of splashing a [L] Pokemon into your deck is presumably to take advantage of the [L] weaknesses that are out there. From the top of my head I can't think of any Pokemon with an [L] weakness that don't have [F] resistance!

EDIT: Just thought of one - Gyarados-EX! Whatever...
 
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Thanks @WastedSkyPirate !

I don't think Gyarados EX or it's mega are going to be seen, so I'd agree with you that Zebstrika is a bit better.
Just wanted to know if I was missing something :)
 
As a tech Zebstriker, as a main deck Raichu might be a thing again, Raichu/Garb could be good perhaps.
 
If they get a searcher ala Korrina, they'll actually be in a good spot. Right now the type is better as a tech choice than a dedicated deck mostly because of how slow the type is without an accelerator, but that's just me.
 
Sorry I'm late to the party.

So getting back to the initial post by @Not Cool! to be fair before this thread, I think a lot of us just assumed Raichu would start doing its thing. I don't think it is something that can function as simple TecH against the Colorless M Rayquaza-EX deck, that is just because a 1-1 line isn't a substantial enough counter. If a deck can spare room for even a 2-2 line* and a deck that is not skimpy on Pokémon, Raichu can hammer on M Rayquaza-EX, taking advantage of its own Sky Field. In general if a deck can keep even a regular Bench full and has compatible Energy acceleration (even just Double Colorless Energy), Raichu is a decent secondary attacker that doubles as a pivot Pokémon. In short it is just waiting to make a comeback.

Now, with regards to Fighting decks, Lightning Resistance has been phased out again, right? So if I've already got Energy acceleration, I might as well just take a look at some Fighting Resistant Lightning Types, as well as any other Type I might include. So we have Lugia (and maybe Lugia BREAK) of XY: Fates Collide, Lugia-EX (XY: Ancient Origins), and Zapdos (XY: Roaring Skies) that could do well backed by something like Magnezone, even against Fighting Types.

*Since TecH or tech gets thrown around so much, I'm using the earlier definition where the general idea is for it to be a minimal (if not minimum) amount of cards; since you can only have four cards in a deck, even two (or a 2-2 line for Stage 1 Pokémon) is already half of the maximum, so it seems more like metagaming or a structure change than TecH to me. Plus Raichu punishes Lightning Weakness in several probable or current decks so again, more than just TecH.
 
^ I should say Strong Energy pretty much ignores the fighting resistance, though its much better off in the next format than current. I should say people shouldn't forget about Pikachu EX either who can hit big numbers with Magnezone but the biggest thing going against the deck is, once again Garbodor and no way to remove its tool.
 
Actually, and I know this sounds silly, amphor. Is not that bad of a play in the next format. Paired with zebra strike and kefkli (ss) + max elixer the ability to paralyze is sort of big. Dce sort of pulls the deck together and though garb is out there it does not stop the effect. It will force a new stadium trend to avoid paralazation, but I won't doubt it if it tops in a city somewhere. The deck runs reasonably well with a jolteon tossed in too. Ya, I think once trainers grasp the slower format they are going to be surprised by some of these bulky charge cards.
 
@crystal_pidgeot

Strong Energy (as well as other buffs) can overwhelm Resistance. I feel it important to phrase in this manner because the -20 from Resistance is still there and sometimes it still saves you, or at least forces your opponent to commit more resources than otherwise would have been needed to score the KO. Garboxotin will be a big deal for Magnezone decks, I agree.
 
WastedSkyPirate said:
@Javi Blizz That's a good question!

At this moment in time. my preference is Zebstrika.

This is based on Speed Rayquaza being tipped for top tier next format, against which Zebstrika hits 220 damage to OHKO Mega Rayquaza-EX. Unfortunately, even with a full bench of 5 Pokemon, Raichu only manages to hit for 200 damage - painfully whiffing key knock-outs (this problem is compounded by Muscle Band's rotation). Furthermore, Zebstrika has the Zap Zone Ability which ignores Altaria's Clear Humming, for example, and allows Zebstrika (and your other [L] Pokemon, if any) to hit for weakness.

On the other hand Raichu has 90 HP, making it searchable via Level Ball, free-retreat and is more effective against Pokemon that don't have [F] resistance. However, the point of splashing a [L] Pokemon into your deck is presumably to take advantage of the [L] weaknesses that are out there. From the top of my head I can't think of any Pokemon with an [L] weakness that don't have [F] resistance!

EDIT: Just thought of one - Gyarados-EX! Whatever...
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In addition, Zebstrika is not bench-size dependent unlike Raichu.
 
Otaku said:
@crystal_pidgeot

Strong Energy (as well as other buffs) can overwhelm Resistance. I feel it important to phrase in this manner because the -20 from Resistance is still there and sometimes it still saves you, or at least forces your opponent to commit more resources than otherwise would have been needed to score the KO. Garboxotin will be a big deal for Magnezone decks, I agree.
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Yeah, you're right about that but its not rare to see a Pokemon with 2 Strong Energy attached to it. Garchomp can OHKO a Ho-Oh EX with a FFB easily though there is a chance it can live but without the FFB, its need a single SE to get over the -20 resistance.

For magnezone, I want to find a way to get over Garbodor but I cant find a viable option.
 
I'd actually try a Clemont, especially if you're using Raikou, as you can find 4 Lightning Energies, and use Magnezone to quickly set up a Raikou, immediately hitting for 130 with just that.
 
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