Discussion Let's brew Rayquaza GX for Expanded

Expert_Occultist

Expert_Occultist

Magic card player
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What does everyone think of Rayquaza's chance in Expanded? It's HP is a little squishy nowadays but it's damage output is certainly there. It's ability can set up Rescue Stretcher and VS Seeker. To top it off, Double Dragon Energy provides a fast way to set up.

Is Max Elixir the best way to use it? Is Energy Grace Milotic a viable way to boost your energy count? What support mons can we use? What can we come up with?!
 
Double Dragon sadly wouldn't work since Ray needs Basic Grass and Lightning Energy to power up Dragon Break
 
Good catch! I did find it a little weird that the Double Dragon energy kind of conflicted with a lot of the support Ray could use (baton, koko gx, etc). I guess it could still attack with it more quickly at a cost of power. Too bad. Oh well, that's one less card to work with I guess.
 
If Double Dragon Energy worked for Rayquaza that would be a dream come true, but unfortunately like @TatsuyaOrimuta said, it needs basic energies in order to gain the benefits of extra damage. Max Elixir is definitley a card you would use for it for any version of Expanded Rayquaza since you're running a bunch of basic energies specifically for the ability anyway, so getting that near-guarantee on a Rayquaza is pure gold. Past this paragraph is research I see on the internet.

Trainer's Mail If Rayquaza ever needed more item speed has that as an option to grab anything like a Mysterious Treasure or Acro Bike or really anything to help speed through your deck and set up Rayquaza super early. Friend Ball if your opponent ever plays the same kind of deck is there, and while we don't have that fancy new Shuckle we're going to get in the next set, we have the original Foolish Burial of the Pokemon TCG that being Battle Compressor to not only send Supporters to the discard pile for VS Seeker, but basic energies as well for Rayquaza's ability.

These next couple of cards are all basic dragon pokemon that look a little interesting to me. Dragonite-EX (Furious Fists) is another option. Sure you do have Koko which essentially does the dame thing except more damage, but the benefit to running Dragonite is he's searchable via Mysterious Treasure and if you needed another basic dragon pokemon to set up with Latias Prism Star, then he can act like one in a world with not a lot of good basic dragon pokemon. Flygon-EX (I guess?) Might be a decent little tech for forcing a switch for specific needs. And it's another basic dragon pokemon which is good for the reasons stated above. Not really too good for anything else so maybe not him but it's an option nonetheless. Hydreigon-EX (Roaring Skies) Can provide better retreat cost if you play stadiums (Skynarrow Bridge for complete free retreat maybe?) incase your Rayquaza's need that flexibility for once again specific reasons. There's also Latias-EX (Plasma Freeze) which can provide as a wall for pokemon using special energies.

If Rayquaza was ever a deck in Expanded, I don't think his playstyle would change too much, it looks to me that he has tools that make a positive yet minuscule effect on what he does. I just think he needs to have a solution for decks that can block his abilities or damage, or not be so item-heavy against decks like Seismitoad.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply! Unfortunately, I'm a fool and didn't realize that Japan standard is similar to North American expanded minus a few cards Ray would never use so I should've looked at the topping decklists there first. None of those decks ran Double Dragon Energy for the reason you guys said. This is how Hydreigon and Latias EX attack so if one were to tech those in DD Energy becomes necessary. With Hex Maniac banned we're gonna need something for Hoopa which is where Hydreigon can work out. I'm trying Silent Lab to beat Hoopa and maybe get some splash damage on other decks. Xurkitree GX could be a cool play if 4 DCE decks still show up as well as, without their own Labs, they can't touch it. I'm also not sure why we'd ever waste bench space on Shuckle when we still have the bonkers card that is Battle Compressor. But ya, I'm looking at a Max Elixir build based on those decks that topped in Japan for now.

Mons
x4 Rayquaza GX
x2 Tapu Lele
x1 Shaymin EX
x1 Oricorio (Supernatural)
x1 Sudowoodo (Roadblock)
x1 Latias Prism Star
x1 Xurkitree GX

Trainers
x4 VS Seeker
x4 Mysterious Treasure
x4 Max Elixir
x3 Ultra Ball
x2 Battle Compressor
x2 Rescue Stretcher
x1 Computer Search
x1 Field Blower
x2 Fighting Fury Belt
x2 Float Stone
x4 Professor Sycamore
x2 Guzma
x1 Colress
x1 Cynthia
x1 N

x7 Lightning
x6 Grass
 
Expert_Occultist said:
Thanks for the detailed reply! Unfortunately, I'm a fool and didn't realize that Japan standard is similar to North American expanded minus a few cards Ray would never use so I should've looked at the topping decklists there first. None of those decks ran Double Dragon Energy for the reason you guys said. This is how Hydreigon and Latias EX attack so if one were to tech those in DD Energy becomes necessary. With Hex Maniac banned we're gonna need something for Hoopa which is where Hydreigon can work out. I'm trying Silent Lab to beat Hoopa and maybe get some splash damage on other decks. Xurkitree GX could be a cool play if 4 DCE decks still show up as well as, without their own Labs, they can't touch it. I'm also not sure why we'd ever waste bench space on Shuckle when we still have the bonkers card that is Battle Compressor. But ya, I'm looking at a Max Elixir build based on those decks that topped in Japan for now.

Mons
x4 Rayquaza GX
x2 Tapu Lele
x1 Shaymin EX
x1 Oricorio (Supernatural)
x1 Sudowoodo (Roadblock)
x1 Latias Prism Star
x1 Xurkitree GX

Trainers
x4 VS Seeker
x4 Mysterious Treasure
x4 Max Elixir
x3 Ultra Ball
x2 Battle Compressor
x2 Rescue Stretcher
x1 Computer Search
x1 Field Blower
x2 Fighting Fury Belt
x2 Float Stone
x4 Professor Sycamore
x2 Guzma
x1 Colress
x1 Cynthia
x1 N

x7 Lightning
x6 Grass
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Not too bad from what I'm seeing. If we're playing with Xurkitree-GX (or any Ultra Beast tbh), you could try Beast Ring to get the energies on the board faster which not only helps Rayquaza but gives you access to Xurkitree as an attacker if you ever need it. I'd try that if I had enough consistency or games where I had an Ultra Beast in play for the card. In addition, I think in the wonderful world of Expanded you have better search power and draw power, I think only 1 Tapu Lele-GX is necessary. It's great that you have Silent Lab to have some sort of counter to Hoopa when necessary. It would kind of suck if someone decided to play the baby Alolan Ninetales but I don't think anyone does that for Expanded. Other than that, like I said it doesn't look too bad. Anything else I could say is probably going to be experimental.
 
Indeed, experimental is kinda where I'm at with this deck. Having only one Lele makes sense as well to free up a spot for Pheromosa or something since I already run Shaymin. I'm not a huge fan of Beast Ring since it clogs up your setup early game which is supposed to be where this deck shines. And yeah, I've decided to throw the rare Ninetales matchup. What else are you supposed to do? :p
 
Expert_Occultist said:
Indeed, experimental is kinda where I'm at with this deck. Having only one Lele makes sense as well to free up a spot for Pheromosa or something since I already run Shaymin. I'm not a huge fan of Beast Ring since it clogs up your setup early game which is supposed to be where this deck shines. And yeah, I've decided to throw the rare Ninetales matchup. What else are you supposed to do? :p
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Just curious, is there a specific reason you aren't running Garbodor?
 
DragonFang101 said:
Just curious, is there a specific reason you aren't running Garbodor?
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I could try it but it takes 4 deck slots instead of 2 with Silent Lab and deck space seems tight if we want to be firing on all cylinders. I really only need Lab to come down once anyway to beat the teched Hoopa if my opponent is indeed playing it. I felt I needed a Stadium as well and didn't care for any of the other options (Parallel seems meh if you already run Woodo). Bottom line, if other people are getting real results with Garb I'll try it but it just seems clunky, unstreamlined (is this a word? Eh it is now), and doesn't really feel like a "tech" at 4 cards.
 
Expert_Occultist said:
I could try it but it takes 4 deck slots instead of 2 with Silent Lab and deck space seems tight if we want to be firing on all cylinders. I really only need Lab to come down once anyway to beat the teched Hoopa if my opponent is indeed playing it. I felt I needed a Stadium as well and didn't care for any of the other options (Parallel seems meh if you already run Woodo). Bottom line, if other people are getting real results with Garb I'll try it but it just seems clunky, unstreamlined (is this a word? Eh it is now), and doesn't really feel like a "tech" at 4 cards.
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I can understand the difficulty of working around it but for the most part Garb is harder to shut down than Silent Lab since all your opponent needs to do is slap down another stadium and you're done. On top of that, you would be protecting your Pokemon from many infamous deck techs that require abilities, including from Pokemon that aren't Basics. Just a suggestion though. We can both agree that Sudowoodo + Ability shutdown is a great combination. I have yet to see Garb in a Rayquaza deck but it has been used similarly in other shutdown decks (i.e. Seismitoed Garb, Buzzwole Garb, etc.)
 
DragonFang101 said:
I can understand the difficulty of working around it but for the most part Garb is harder to shut down than Silent Lab since all your opponent needs to do is slap down another stadium and you're done. On top of that, you would be protecting your Pokemon from many infamous deck techs that require abilities, including from Pokemon that aren't Basics. Just a suggestion though. We can both agree that Sudowoodo + Ability shutdown is a great combination. I have yet to see Garb in a Rayquaza deck but it has been used similarly in other shutdown decks (i.e. Seismitoed Garb, Buzzwole Garb, etc.)
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Again, I'm now worrying about my Lab getting shut down, I just want to kill the Hoopa and continue on with the game :p
 
DragonFang101 said:
But why stop there when you can shut down the Malamar? The Vikavolt? The Zoroark Trade Out? The Tapu Lele?
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Malamar and Vikavolt don't see play in Expanded much to my knowledge. Tapu Lele is a fair point (but still hit by Lab). Zoroark is a weird one. On one hand it shuts off Trade. On the other it shuts off our Woodo which allows them to fill up their bench and start ohkoing our dragons. I do see your point (and Lycanroc is another great thing to shut off) but more testing is needed for sure. What would your list look like if it included Garb?

Edit: I appreciate that Garb gets grabbed with Mysterious Treasure as well
 
Expert_Occultist said:
Malamar and Vikavolt don't see play in Expanded much to my knowledge. Tapu Lele is a fair point (but still hit by Lab). Zoroark is a weird one. On one hand it shuts off Trade. On the other it shuts off our Woodo which allows them to fill up their bench and start ohkoing our dragons. I do see your point (and Lycanroc is another great thing to shut off) but more testing is needed for sure. What would your list look like if it included Garb?

Edit: I appreciate that Garb gets grabbed with Mysterious Treasure as well
Click to expand...
Of course. Not to say that your Silent Lab would be ineffective, seeing as it could stop a Lele when you're on your first turn, but perhaps Garbodor would last longer and, if it has a Float Stone attached, can work around a Guzma. Here's what my model list would be for Expanded.

Pokemon
x4 Rayquaza GX
x1 Shaymin EX
x2 Trubbish
x2 Garbodor
x1 Latias Prism Star
x1 Oricorio

Trainers
x4 VS Seeker
x4 Mysterious Treasure
x3 Max Elixir
x3 Ultra Ball
x2 Choice Band
x1 Rescue Stretcher
x1 Computer Search
x1 Field Blower
x2 Fighting Fury Belt
x3 Float Stone
x4 Professor Sycamore
x2 Guzma
x2 Colress
x2 N
Energy
x7 Lightning
x6 Grass
 
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