Just plain vote!!!

[Master of the Six Kings]

RE: Just plain vote!

I'm kinda glad I can't vote, because Obama lacks the experience, and I'm against sudden withdrawl of Iraq, but McCain...old dude with cancer struggles and heart issues who will probably be like a Ninjask-Shedninja with George Bush..

Also, can't bieleve a high-schooler hung a cardboard cut out of obama >.> That's just lame.

 

[LuckyLuigi7]

RE: Just plain vote!

Yeah, I'm glad I can't vote either. I want a few more years of easy going until the brutal reality of life meets me directly face to face.

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

RE: Just plain vote!

I don't get your antiomosexual theory that if they weren't allowed to marry there'd be more people in the world. They will not, and never will reproduce normally. In fact, supressing them might limit their want to have a baby through In Vitro/sperm banks, which would limit the popluation too.

Personally I'd like to destory half the world because humans are overpopulating the place.

Oh, and I only challenge people's opinions if their basis for the opinions is wrong or biased. Have an opinion, back it up, and I'll leave it alone.

 

[Larcan]

RE: Just plain vote!

Yea I heard about the cardboard cut out thing very shocking but it shows that racism is still there.

TCG: How could you call religion racist? There are people in religions that are raciest but religion by it self is not raciest.

Serjent: I agree about the problems with both candidates if it was not for Sarah I probably wouldent be involved with this election

 

[Panda]

RE: Just plain vote!

ummm.. yeah, if you look at religion, that's kind of... what's the word... RACIST!!!! that Is why Obama pwns... McCain wants only the same, which we can't afford. $10 Billion/month in Iraq?? I think I would'nt vote for that (well, I can't vote yet, but...)

On my last remark I was being sarcastic thats why I put I was being sarcastic. But really religion isn't a race seriously I think the word your thinking of is religist im only 20% sure thats a real word/term though.

 

[choccy417]

1. Discrimination is still everywhere, older people won't be as useful as younger employees, etc. etc.
You're generalising, you don't know everyone.
And even still, "they don't want a job", lol, yeah right, because not even half what the average human being earns is more than enough to pay for everything. Which brings me to this, how are you going to LIVE when trying to find a job? Working in McDonals day 1 is cool and all (although they don't always have vacancies, and it's not really the place anyone would want to work if they've studied and everything.) Also, if you can afford decent clothing, nobody's going to pick you for the job over some guy in a costume. And how in the world is this helping society when a nuclear scientist who is temporarily out of work is not able to fully concentrate on applying for new jobs?
2. What?
3. No, they're successful because:
A) Their daddy was.
B) They got lucky
C) They did one thing right, and now do nothing at all and still profit from it
D) They stole someone else's product and trademarked it
Your idea of the self-made man who started with 1 dollar, bought himself some bread and a sausage and made himself a hot-dog is so very rare, and even still, something like that does not mean you should have total financial dominance over everyone who works day in day out to produce your invention.
4. Cuba is the only 3th world country with national healthcare and a high life-expectancy. And lol, the Russian government is so anti-communist ._.
5. Hitler found his way to the top through the national socialists (Nazis) of Germany, correct. His morals, ideas and achievements are however in no way socialistic, if you'd do a tiny bit more research than what you did just there, you would've known.

Stop forcing all these dogmas upon yourself, seriously.

there are a lot of rich ppl who were sucsessful b/c of WORKING HARD FOR THIER MONEY
obama will be like jimmy carter and bill clinton. BILL CLINTON! we dont need another lier like w/ the scandal w/ lewinsky he lied on national tv about it it amazes me that he was elected for a second term

 

[Papi/Manny]

RE: Just plain vote!

....seriously? Do you think the president doesn't lie? PLEASE. This thread needs to be moved into that epic failure thread, since thats what it is.

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

RE: Just plain vote!

Why would he be like the previous scandalous presidents? Personal bias?

There are some rich(er) people but they generally are way too old to have any real relevance, or whatever we're talking about. At this point they'd be in their 50s, because making millions takes years. And by then they're either given a lot of it away or are too corrupted by power.

 

[Larcan]

RE: Just plain vote!

HS: Here in America, which this topic is about, there are still many self made rich people who did'nt rely on luck, theft, or a rich daddy. Take my grandparents My grandma and grandpa started off very poor with 7 kids to take care of and only a wine making degree for my grandpa and a god sense of hard work. They scrapped up saving from small unappealing jobs and took out a lone to buy a parcel of land in a little known area of california with some grape vines on it. They planted the entire parcel worked hard for years and have now worked from a poor family in socal to owning a rather well off group of family owned wineries that win awards at international competition.

Hard work and ambition can still get you up there

 

[choccy417]

HS: Here in America, which this topic is about, there are still many self made rich people who did'nt rely on luck, theft, or a rich daddy. Take my grandparents My grandma and grandpa started off very poor with 7 kids to take care of and only a wine making degree for my grandpa and a god sense of hard work. They scrapped up saving from small unappealing jobs and took out a lone to buy a parcel of land in a little known area of california with some grape vines on it. They planted the entire parcel worked hard for years and have now worked from a poor family in socal to owning a rather well off group of family owned wineries that win awards at international competition.

Hard work and ambition can still get you up there

THANK YOU THATS MY POINT

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

RE: Just plain vote!

It can, but how many people ever bother anymore? We're in an age of sloth, apathy and greed. Nobody ever wants to work anymore, as it saddens me to say it. For every one honest, hardworking man, I'm sure there's about five who are skimming through life with far too much ease for their own good.

 

[foo895]

RE: Just plain vote!

maybe those ppl who sit on thier lazy butts all day should get a job, even if it means mccdonalds or some thing that lets the economy flow a little easier if they heavily tax the richer ppl then they will not want to wrk as hard. aka communism/ russia

also do u think nobama woulkd tax himself so heavily?

that would be a big fat NO

Some people are not able to work because there are no jobs available or because they have disablilities. These are the reasons that the welfare system was created in the first place. I know how hard it is to get a job. There are almost no job opportunities in the area where I live.

Sure, there are people who abuse the system, but there will always be people to abuse any system. We have to look towards the majority of people that it helps.

The president isn't even the one who changes taxes, its congress. So it doesn't matter whether or not Obama would tax himself.

Plus, that is not at all how communism works. Communism is a system that allows for all citizens to be in one class. Nobody owns more then the other because the government owns everything and distributes wealth accordingly. And Russia isn't even a communtist nation anymore.

And for your information, the hardest working people are minimum wage/middle class workers. Millionaires already don't work because the hire people to do all the work for them.

Do some research people!

1.I can understand the disabilites, but you are able to find a job if you look hard enof they just don't want a job
2.then we don't need a liberal congress
3. the millionares and the upper class don't wrk because they were sucsessful @ what there good at and thrived
4. they still run like communists: if not russia, then look @ cuba
5. hitler believed in socialism (seriosly)

1. Discrimination is still everywhere, older people won't be as useful as younger employees, etc. etc.
You're generalising, you don't know everyone.
And even still, "they don't want a job", lol, yeah right, because not even half what the average human being earns is more than enough to pay for everything. Which brings me to this, how are you going to LIVE when trying to find a job? Working in McDonals day 1 is cool and all (although they don't always have vacancies, and it's not really the place anyone would want to work if they've studied and everything.) Also, if you can afford decent clothing, nobody's going to pick you for the job over some guy in a costume. And how in the world is this helping society when a nuclear scientist who is temporarily out of work is not able to fully concentrate on applying for new jobs?
2. What?
3. No, they're successful because:
A) Their daddy was.
B) They got lucky
C) They did one thing right, and now do nothing at all and still profit from it
D) They stole someone else's product and trademarked it
Your idea of the self-made man who started with 1 dollar, bought himself some bread and a sausage and made himself a hot-dog is so very rare, and even still, something like that does not mean you should have total financial dominance over everyone who works day in day out to produce your invention.
4. Cuba is the only 3th world country with national healthcare and a high life-expectancy. And lol, the Russian government is so anti-communist ._.
5. Hitler found his way to the top through the national socialists (Nazis) of Germany, correct. His morals, ideas and achievements are however in no way socialistic, if you'd do a tiny bit more research than what you did just there, you would've known.

Stop forcing all these dogmas upon yourself, seriously.

Thanks HeavenlySpoon for that explanation so I don't have to tell Choccy whats what again.

Larcan: That is absurd. It doesn't matter if they are migrating to neighboring states because that is nothing like leaving the country. Different countries have different ways of doing business. There are different laws and regulations. The rich people would have to become citizens, not to mention the fact that most of these people are very nationalistic. They mostly look down on other countries. What if taxes get too high in these other countries? Will they go to Mars? I know this sounds absurd but if they would travel across the world, whats to stop them from traveling to other worlds?

I do agree however that Palin has great policies. I mean that bridge to nowhere? Fantastic idea. I can't wait to see what she would do if she had her hands on the entire country's taxes instead of just Alaska.

Plus, like I said before, what good is experience if it isn't put to good use?

As far as Obama's economy plan, it may need tweaks but its the only thing anyone has. Nobody else is doing anything. This bailout is a joke. If the country has $700 Billion dollars to save wall street and the corporate fat cats then they have $700 Billion dollars to help the poor and disenfranchised. But they won't. And as long as there are people like Bush, McCain, and Palin in office, that is all they will help because that is who they are, and they only care about themselves. And all of you people are falling for it. Well, we'll see how much you love McCain when you get drafted into a war or can't afford to buy your own home. I'll be laughing then.

Also Larcan, things don't work the way they did back in the forties. Times are different. The government has to take a piece of everything we make and there are all kinds of rules and regulations for starting a business that didn't exist before.

Plus, your grandparents aren't as rich as Bill Gates or the owners of other multi-billion dollar corporations, and that is what we are referring to when we say rich people.

 

[Larcan]

RE: Just plain vote!

No it is not absurd, why do you think most rich people have offshore accounts ectra? If it gets worse the people are moving to where their accounts are.

Check your facts, when she first took office do to only knowing the front of the bridge idea she went with it but with in the first part of her term she shut it down after scrutiny of it and the plans.

Also more fact check! Sarah greatly improved the Alaskan economy but shutting down the bridge, increasing oil exploration, and even taxing Big oil's profits. If she screwed up Alaska how come she has a 80% approval ratting there?

What do you mean "what good is experience if it isn't put to good use?" Palin has more experience than Obama in government.

A few tweaks lol, seriously instead of taking your opinions from the media or Obama's site take an economics course and then read his plan... The old bailouts I agreed with but I am personally against the new bailouts AIG should have stuck with insurance.

I have no reason to respond to the rest of that paragraph as it is all general Liberal propganda. Other than I NEVER said I liked McCain much less loved him. I said that I am active in this election is because of Sarah. To me McCain has almost as many issues as Obama.

Again more lack of facts and assuming and we all know the old addage. My Grandparents startted in 78 and are still working hard to have what they have.

Again it's like a fact check party Obama said tonight durring the debate that everyone with and income over 200/250,000 would get the tax increase. With a mulit income home and the current rate of inflation thats a good chunck of people and remember my previous fact the top 5/10% Obama wants to tax already pay 50+% of Americas taxes. Can you see them being happy with 60% or more. Nope

I am sure you are a great guy you just need to check what you post before you post against me I am rather educated and knowledgeable in regards to politics and economics and I was rased to research facts and form my own opinions instead of taking them from the media. (BTW most of your post sounded like a bad attack ad of Obama's)....

EDIT: BTW I am not replying to the rest of spoons comments because 1 I can't tell which are sarcastic and 2 his opinion is warped because the person that is elected won't run his country.

Lets try to get more civil and intellectual so this doesn't get locked guys this is good discussion but it is getting close to getting out of hand.

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

RE: Just plain vote!

The experience thing is that if (person) does not use their experience then it's as good as nothing.

Heavenly Spoon's opinion is affected by the fact htat it does not affect him, but it also is unbiased because he doesn't have to listen to the propaganda that either side may spread. He can look for only what is factual, not what has been twisted by the election parties' mouthes.

Also, how about backing up the statement that Obama's economic plan is fundamentally flawed?

 

[Larcan]

RE: Just plain vote!

I did see my first post basicly you can't just tax the rich they are the ones with the money to leave if the taxes are too high

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

RE: Just plain vote!

EDIT: BTW I am not replying to the rest of spoons comments because 1 I can't tell which are sarcastic and 2 his opinion is warped because the person that is elected won't run his country.

Who's the uninformed one?
Wall Street is crashing, and suddenly most of the Belgian banks are also on the way to bankruptcy.
Bush starts a war, and because of the NATO and UN , we are suddenly also forced/asked to send troops to those regions.
Inflation of the dollar affects the so many European companies which do business with America, who have stocks in America, branches in America, and so on. The inflation of the dollar automatically means inflation of the Euro.
And so on.

Anything America does at this point affects the world, that's what happens when a country becomes so very dominant at one point. The unfair thing is that we can't even decide who's going to screw up the world next.

 

[Larcan]

RE: Just plain vote!

I never said you were uninformed, I only said your opinion was warped as you last post shows it is.
Yes what America dose effects the world to an extent but up until about a month ago the rest of the world was doing great with the euro at the highest exchange to the dollar in years. Only recently has the rest of the world started to hurt.
By reading your posts I can tell you are so far to the left that a war discussion would be wasting my breath but I will say currently, to my knowledge, the only belgian troops in Iraq are part of the NATO/UN group and in that case wouldn't you rather your troops be in Iraq where our boys have and are doing a good majority of the work than a place like Darfur?
The fact is that if the rest of the world was allowed to vote Obama would win in a landslide. Obama might do things that help the rest of the world, but I want a president who won't screwup America to make the world happy.

 

[B-Ray]

After reading through some of this, I can tell that there are three types of people in this thread :/

1. Devout Republicans who would do anything to stop Obama from winning the presidency. Do I blame you though? No.....listen, If my family was making six figures and I had a few houses I would want more of the same too....and then this guy comes and says he's gonna tax us and not THEM which is how it's never been. Hell, why do you think they voted for Bush....TWICE.

2. Frustrated Europeans/Asians who are looking over the mess that is America at the moment and frowning upon it. It dosent matter what you do, your country is affected SOMEHOW by ours and when we arent doing well, neither are you, for the most part. It's not your fault this is happening, and it isn't ours either.

3. The Good People. Democrats and even some Republicans who ARE in fact Middle Class America, the people who are innocent bystanders, and the sufferers to the problems going on today. Were we the investors who poured Millions into AIG or Fannie May and Freddie Mac? We're we the Senate/House members who voted to spend MORE in Iraq? No. We were the people sitting by our TV's just watching this country go down the hole, and there was nothing we can do about it. We are 95% of our country. Those who can barely afford to pay our bills every week....those who have to make sacrifices every day. Trust me, I know firsthand what goes on in Middle Class America. My mother works harder than anyone, for 45 hours a week just to put a roof over our heads, and for me and my sister to have good schools to go to and those 5% are saying that they deserve more tax cuts than we do?
WE are this country, more than they are. Obviously this theory of trickle down economics that Bush/McCain love so much is flawed, as my mom still cant pay her rent this month. Don't you guys see the problem here? There are those who are greedy and those who deserve it. That's why Obama is going to give tax cuts to those 95% and raise taxes for the people who ACTUALLY have the money to pay for it. If you people (Republicians) claim you made your fortune, then surely you can help repay the country who gave you the opportunity to, so that others might have the chance to do the same with their life. There are only a few issues that I, myself and Senator Obama disagree on....but I think that he provides the skills and toughness necessary to make some changes here. The difference between us and the last group is, WE can stop this. Middle Class America is what is going to change the world.

Sorry for the long speech....however, there were definitely some things that needed to be said in this thread. Onto a new topic....who do you think won the debate last night? I've been trying to search for some sign of Winner/Loser and haven't heard/seen anything yet.

Personally, I think this was a great win for Obama. I did watch the whole thing, and while McCain had some good moments, he never would speak to Obama. I'm sure McCain knows all too well that if he would have spoke directly to Obama that he would have been shown up....

I really didn't like that McCain kept going to old stories.....this election is about the future and change, and he was talking about Eisenhower and Normandy. (That letter story wasn't true BTW....the second letter wasn't his resignation, it was him taking responsibility for a loss, if that were to happen) Obama stayed current, talked about the things that DID matter (Energy and Health Care) and really told us what HE would do if elected. All I saw from McCain really was that he was experienced and all the times he voted against Bush (that 10%)

Anyways, I'll let some other people discuss =]
-Black Rayquaza

 

[Larcan]

RE: Just plain vote!

First off did I ever say my family made 6 figures nope. My family is middle class and works our way through things. We "devout republicans" care alot more about the middle class than the "good people"(seriously how biased is that) want you to think. We "devotes" that you seem to be grouping us into take the time to study the economy and know and learn for our selves that you can't just tax the rich. Everyone on here who opposes my opinion seems to be unknowldgeable and to be blunt selfish, they work hard and got rich so take all their money not any of ours. I get and know the suffering of the middle and lower class. My family and I have worked with the lower middle and lower class and I know their suffering but I also know that taxing the heck out of the rich.

I am going to move on from the economy because no one has come in with a solid stance based in fact not opinion.

The debate was a solid one, but their was no solid winner. Both danced a bit to much around the issues and neither would seriously debate too hard.

And one side not BR if you want to have a serious politics dicussion never show your bias by saying your group are the Good People. I know enough to know that neither the Republicans or Democrats are the good people both sides have good ideas but neither is perfect. I base my opinion on facts and research not what someone else says.

 

[B-Ray]

You mistook me there...."The Good People" wasn't implying that they were better than everyone else, but rather that they are good people who are the ones getting bad breaks in the US right now. I do agree I am bias, but I have good reason to be.....the government has let me down in more ways than one, and I am simply telling why Obama is better for the US than McCain by giving you the opinion of the other 95% of the population which you seemed to be missing in this thread.

-Black Rayquaza