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This card probably won't see play, unless we have a future rotation that kills Choice Band. 30 more damage is WAY better than 40 more HP.

The only deck I could see playing this is Sylveon, but I'm not sure if that deck wants to waste space on a tool card.

Also, if anyone decides to play this in Garbodor, I will thank them for making my life easier. Not playing Choice Band means I get to play another Item card.
 
Dark Espeon said:
Well. The Japanese meta seems to be more varied and the last few tournments have been won by different decks. I would not go by what people run but by what could be possible with the current card pool. I basically consider all Garbodor decks to be ideantical in essence. All of them run the classic BBP deck formula which is easy to use because all of their attackerts are chosen to be rather self-sufficient. There are quite a few counters to the current Garbodor builts but most of them seem to have been either forgotten or dismissed from the start. Just a viewpoint from a japanese meta that you may or may not wish to consider.

I do agree that creative options are slightly limited but that is not specific to the release of SM2. When was the last time you have seen a decent mill deck that can hold its own without necessarily being either inconsistent or fragile? Beatdown and control has a lot of options to choose from at the moment.
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I agree that there are quality counters. My concern is that those counters get hard stomped by a deck like gyarados so they might not see enough play.

I hope this was just a one time thing similar to earlier in the year when Yveltal owned a tournament.
 
Fayld said:
I agree that there are quality counters. My concern is that those counters get hard stomped by a deck like gyarados so they might not see enough play.

I hope this was just a one time thing similar to earlier in the year when Yveltal owned a tournament.
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I believe that some of the lesser talked about counters are not that specific ;).
 
DaGod503 said:
Now we have to choose man this sucks but it has to be situational between this and choice band
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Not much of a choice unless you've got a means of protecting Muscle Dumbbells from being discarded by Field Blower. At best, you'll get a cyclical pattern:

  1. Find a deck that makes good use of Muscle Dumbbells, enjoy it for a tournament.
  2. Everyone counters it with Field Blower.
  3. Drop Muscle Dumbbells.
  4. Field Blower counts drop.
  5. Repeat
Or you can just take the mostly safe bet that is Choice Band. Let us not forget that smaller Stage 1 cards go from "probable OHKO" to "possible OHKO"; sometimes that helps, but often it doesn't.

GekkisaiDaiNi said:
Choice Band but you could probably mess around with this and Training Center in Expanded to give Vespi 160HP.
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160 HP that a single Item card rips away. ;)
 
Otaku said:
Not much of a choice unless you've got a means of protecting Muscle Dumbbells from being discarded by Field Blower. At best, you'll get a cyclical pattern:

  1. Find a deck that makes good use of Muscle Dumbbells, enjoy it for a tournament.
  2. Everyone counters it with Field Blower.
  3. Drop Muscle Dumbbells.
  4. Field Blower counts drop.
  5. Repeat
Or you can just take the mostly safe bet that is Choice Band. Let us not forget that smaller Stage 1 cards go from "probable OHKO" to "possible OHKO"; sometimes that helps, but often it doesn't.



160 HP that a single Item card rips away. ;)
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I wouldn't actually do that with Vespiquen it was just a fun idea. However, the combo (although it is weak to field blower) would be absolutely ridiculous with Sylveon. I highly doubt anyone in their right mind wants to deal with a 270HP Sylveon. Field Blower would still wreck it though.
 
Otaku said:
Not much of a choice unless you've got a means of protecting Muscle Dumbbells from being discarded by Field Blower. At best, you'll get a cyclical pattern:

  1. Find a deck that makes good use of Muscle Dumbbells, enjoy it for a tournament.
  2. Everyone counters it with Field Blower.
  3. Drop Muscle Dumbbells.
  4. Field Blower counts drop.
  5. Repeat
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Your thinking is a bit off there. Even if Muscle Dumbells isn't seeing play, Choice Band and Float Stone will. Field Blower will continue to see play even if some tool cards do not.
 
xTITAN said:
Your thinking is a bit off there. Even if Muscle Dumbells isn't seeing play, Choice Band and Float Stone will. Field Blower will continue to see play even if some tool cards do not.
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I'm dealing with an advanced TCG concept. ;) Well, and maybe a misunderstanding. I didn't talk about Field Blower in an all or nothing sense, I pointed out that even if you found a good use for Muscle Dumbbells, players would increase their usage of Field Blower; you'll be lucky to enjoy a single tournament's worth of a competitive edge before the metagame punishes players for the approach.

I was not saying that Field Blower wouldn't see any use. XP

Anyway, for the "advanced" concept, see the spoiler tags. Re-reading your comment, it probably isn't how you were thinking, but it's a good lesson for those willing anyway. :)

Choice Band and Float Stone can be played in a manner so as to provide an immediate return. This will not always be the case, but when it happens then one doesn't lose as much is the opponent then uses Field Blower to discard them. This is especially true if Field Blower isn't being fully optimized, and is only being used to discard that one Tool or Stadium. In terms of card count, the players break even, but the actual effect on the game is I still was able to take a OHKO that would have been a 2HKO, retreat without having to discard Energy, etc. the player whose card is being discarded by Field Blower may be coming out ahead. With Stadiums and/or Tool cards that do not provide such an immediate benefit, all that happens if we trade even on cards.

Now, what if my opponent does discard two Tools or a Stadium and a Tool? I may still have broken even or gained an advantage if, in what immediate use I gained from those cards, I benefited enough. With stuff like Dumbbells that will rarely happen. You'll need an effect dependent upon the HP of your Pokémon, or an effect that would have KO'd something during your own turn. Otherwise, your opponent goes to use Field Blower and gets a one-for-one or two-for-one play.

Now bring in opportunity costs, such as when you might have benefitted from Choice Band or Float Stone instead of Muscle Dumbbells. Instead of having been able to retreat for free or hit for 30 extra damage, your Pokémon had a meaningless +40 HP before Field Blower was utilized.
 
I'll just point out that by name alone this sounds like something built with some future Fighting types in mind. Not many Stage 1s of those. Maybe the new Crabrawler could be a doozy.
 
Hopefully this means we'll see some Stage 2 support, the only ones that are somewhat playable right now are Grass ones for obvious reasons.
 
Lurantis in particular was the first card that came to my mind when I saw it, Lurantis hits 250 with this which is actually a pretty relevant threshold when you consider the 30hp healed per attack and possibly vaporeon/rough seas tech. But most importantly Lurantis is a natural plumelock partner, so your extra HP is protected from field blowers.
 
Mr. Rhyperior said:
MY GEODUDES
  • Muscle Dumbells - 5 Geodudes, period. Lol, anyways, this is good not just Sylveon (which become 240, Stage 2 GX level), and Garbodor (160, Stage 2 Non-GX max), all Stage 1s will be better. If this was a post on Facebook, Zoroark, Raichu, Lycanroc, and most playable Stage 1s Like this MEW tool. But, Field Blower will also love it, but it's not the end of the world.
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Mew tool? was it a pun?
 
Haven't noticed anyone *really* talk about the flip side of this card's impact.

By which I mean how much more it'll make important things like playing item lock, field blowers, etc. This card is something of a Stealth Rock equivalent in the video games, where it becomes equivalent to have someone who can lay down hazards, but also important to have a Rapid Spinner.

Who wasn't as big a deal before that's about to become an MVP in a lot of decks?
 
I can see so much potential for this in at least 3 decks I'm testing. This could really sway some tier 2 decks into the tier 1.5 range.
 
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