Is the United States going to Default on it's own Debt?

[Pokequaza]

The US is basically already bankrupt, give it another 10 years and nothing much will be left of it. If you're really worried then be sure to get your hands on a Chinese passport, learn the Chinese language and move to China, there you will probably be 'safe' for the rest of your life.

 

[Ty W]

We've seen and survived worse times Pokequaza.

 

[Zyflair]

Pokequaza, I do hope you're kidding on that. China is not the best place to go unless you've got lots of money. Pollution is more of an overstated problem there. If anything, there's been tons of news about the food and the scandals about how they manufacture them. Having asian relatives provides alot of stories about just how they try to save money at the expense of the consumer. Most things you eat there (provided it's not high quality) would be of mostly chemicals, preservatives, and flavoring.

There's plenty like this short article: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_620754.html

 

[Card Slinger J]

A deal has FINALLY been reached by both parties of Congress and the President to avoid the U.S. from going into Default and just in time too:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/

 

[Zyflair]

It's still not completely over, but this is a major step that makes this problem seem doable. Obama, from the looks of things, isn't going to veto what comes onto his table, so as soon as the two parties officially approve, I think the US is set out of this problem in the short term. Raising the debt ceiling up to only 2013 doesn't seem much, but it's at least slightly better than the 2012 Boehner proposed.

What I'm particularily interested about is the Super Congress, something that was made to help congress get itself out of the problem, even though the Constitution said nothing of that. Personally, I think drastic measures like that was for the better, and maybe we should rethink the constitution itself.

 

[Ty W]

It's not enough though, it cuts 1 trillion over 10 years when they wanted to cut 1.6 trillion by the end of the year.

 

[Card Slinger J]

It's still not completely over, but this is a major step that makes this problem seem doable. Obama, from the looks of things, isn't going to veto what comes onto his table, so as soon as the two parties officially approve, I think the US is set out of this problem in the short term. Raising the debt ceiling up to only 2013 doesn't seem much, but it's at least slightly better than the 2012 Boehner proposed.

What I'm particularily interested about is the Super Congress, something that was made to help congress get itself out of the problem, even though the Constitution said nothing of that. Personally, I think drastic measures like that was for the better, and maybe we should rethink the constitution itself.

So in other words by what you're saying we are still going into Default despite a Deal being reached? I disagree we have avoided Default with this deal being reached. But I do agree with you on one thing though and that everyone should rethink the U.S. Constitution itself. You, me, and everyone else all have Constitutional Rights still that we should NEVER take for granted.

Sure the Government has made drastic measures to get ourselves out of this mess despite what our Founding Fathers would've thought of this scenario but it had to be done. The financial safety of this country depends on everyone of us, for the United States to fail on it's obligations sets a bad example for other Democracies across the world. Countries like China, Japan, Russia, the U.K., you name it there was too much at stake for us to fail.

It's not enough though, it cuts 1 trillion over 10 years when they wanted to cut 1.6 trillion by the end of the year.

Now Obama needs to cut back on Military Spending after this is done, even though Qaddafi in Libya needed to go the actions our Government took to take him out was very risky despite the Military Spending in Iraq and Afghanistan both of which we need to withdraw from, the one country being Iraq since If we leave Afghanistan that's going to cause problems for the United States in the long term.

I just hope that we avoid another Default Scenario in the future like in the next 6 months from now cause If we are going to work together as a nation we need to work alot better to ensure our financial stability at home while we are not too distracted from foreign policy all the time even though that is important as well.

 

[xxashxx]

Looks like there might be a deal within the next 24 hours and is supposed to last through 2012 and into 2013. There is supposed to be a 2 trillion dollat cut but there will not be and catastrophic loss like what could still happen. Now we are just waiting for autographs and such to lock in the deal.

 

[Card Slinger J]

And good timing too, we still had 1 day left before the deadline Tuesday...

 

[Flygon Jedi Master]

Now recently the House of Representatives are trying to pass a bill to end the Debt Crisis only problem is that President Obama has threatened to veto it cause it doesn't suit with his Democratic Liberal ideals, well I say just pass the bill cause we are running out of time.

One of the problems especially why we are facing a deadlock with this issue is that there is a divide between Democrats and Republicans and unless they can resolve this issue on a Bipartisan level while putting political ideals aside they could doom us all without thinking of the American people and everyone else. I just don't get it, it's like when the House tries to pass a bill through Congress it either gets shot down by the Senate or gets Vetoed by the President.

What does this bill say exactly that the liberals don't like?

 

[Zyflair]

So in other words by what you're saying we are still going into Default despite a Deal being reached? I disagree we have avoided Default with this deal being reached. But I do agree with you on one thing though and that everyone should rethink the U.S. Constitution itself. You, me, and everyone else all have Constituitonal Rights still that we should NEVER take for granted.

Sure the Government has made drastic measures to get ourselves out of this mess despite what our Founding Fathers would've thought of this scenario but it had to be done. The financial safety of this country depends on everyone of us, for the United States to fail on it's obligations sets a bad example for other Democracies across the world. Countries like China, Japan, Russia, the U.K., you name it there was too much at stake for us to fail.

I didn't say it still means we'll default. Just that the chance is still there, in case the Rebuplicans somehow don't rally enough voters (though if they value their jobs, they'll let this bill pass). On the note of the constitution, the Founding Fathers wrote it that way because it was appropriate at the time. Today is different. We have a much large population that requires a faster acting government, rather than the extraordinarily balanced one that has been set up.

Also to whoever said 1 trillion over a decade, where in the world did you get that number? I read 3 trillion in one article, and the lowest I've seen is $2.5 trillion according to this article. Even with the large cuts overall, the debt ceiling is planned to be raised again somewhere around 2013, later than what Boehner suggested and what the Republicans want.

 

[StealthAngel667]

It's true that something needs to be done, and quickly. I think Obama is taking a couple of steps in the right direction. In the end though, all American citizens will have to face the fact that happy-go-lucky spending time is over. Get less loans, start working again, pay more taxes. And get the money rolling again to get the economy healthier. (aka: Keynes) It's the best way to solve the upcoming crisis, I think.

 

[Card Slinger J]

What upcoming crisis, you mean If after we raise the Debt Ceiling in the next several hours that when we reach the next Debt/Deficit Limit which would be in 2013 when the Debt will get to around $20 Trillion? We still need a long-term solution to fixing this besides kicking the can down the road everytime we have stuff like this happen. This is why I kept suggesting a Balanced Budget Amendment to the U.S. Constitution but the Democrats are still against it cause it goes against their "principles" or idealogies.

The reason why this Debt Crisis was so bad this time was due to a divided government and almost dysfunctional to the point where we almost didn't get a solution or deal done in time to avoid Default. Even still there's a chance that we could go into Default If we don't get enough votes passed into Congress to pass this into law. The sad part about this is that the Government knew we needed to raise the Debt Ceiling 10 months ago and they could've saved us the trouble of raising the debt so that right now we wouldn't have to be dealing with a three-ring circus.

Whoever is against this Debt Ceiling increase and is attempting to carry the burden of defaulting our own country should be arrested, fired from their jobs, and charged for treason. If those politicians do that then they are no better than al-qaeda or the Taliban who have been seeking to destroy our country from the get-go, heck even China is trying to destroy us. As for the Super Congress, I'm a bit skeptical about it and I'm concerned it might have a negative effect on the way Congress works especially to pass bills into law.

 

[Muddy68]

A balanced budget amendment seems like a good idea at first glance, but in reality, it is pointless because it would mean having to balance the budget EVERY year, regardless how high or low the debt is or how needed it is. It would take time away from actual issues because it requires the house and Senate to vote on it every year. I am opposed to it since it is just a waste of time (and yes, I do support the democratic party).
Congress did pass the bill, bringing it closer to becoming reality, and the Senate will most likely pass it tomorrow due to the recent compromise between the 2 parties. And they may have known about it 10 months ago, but then, there were other issues going on such as the approaching deadline of the government shutting down, which obviously needed to be taken care of first. And the only reason this entire ordeal resembles a circus is because the 2 parties are so obsessed with taking credit for improving the economy, that they will do anything to make sure that what they believe becomes law, regardless if this screws over the country, which is why it took so long to actually pass a bill. This time could have been avoided with earlier negotiations on the bill by both the parties to actually pass something they all agreed on the first time through. Now, I do realize that there was a decent number that did vote against it, but that is bound to happen with any bill just because some things do get changed.
And, your last paragraph, Card Slinger J, completely removes all credibility from what you have just posted. You say that they would be no better than terrorist groups, but, whoever does that to them, would be no better either. I feel as though this is an extreme approach when the politicians are just looking out for their party and trying to be loyal to it over the country as a whole, which may not be right, but does not need that punishment that you have stated.

 

[Card Slinger J]

And, your last paragraph, Card Slinger J, completely removes all credibility from what you have just posted. You say that they would be no better than terrorist groups, but, whoever does that to them, would be no better either. I feel as though this is an extreme approach when the politicians are just looking out for their party and trying to be loyal to it over the country as a whole, which may not be right, but does not need that punishment that you have stated.

Well I may have gone a bit far on what I said earlier about comparing selfish politicians to Islamic terrorist groups and I take back what I said on that regard, the problem is that I don't like it when politicians only look out for their own party's idealogies and principles over the American people's interests. Whatever happened to by the people for the people? You know like when the founding fathers actually cared about the American people like Benjamin Franklin who didn't patent anything he invented cause he cared about the American people.

Why can't politicians do what they are supposed to do and that's to help and support the American people and this country as a whole? Is that so hard to accomplish? There's even been debates regarding as to whether a two party government is making the U.S. Government ungovernable, America is about working together to achieve our goals, not politicians only satisfying their own agendas and getting re-elected into office. That's really my main complaint regarding this. So don't take it the wrong way Muddy68 and I apologize for my rude comments earlier.

Since I took back what I just said regarding the falsely judged comparison between politicians and terrorists, my previous posts still have credibility in the fact that our Government is still divided and somewhat dysfunctional to the point where we finally managed to get a deal done despite the problems we've been having lately especially the way the Tea Party Americans were in a sense holding our country hostage to have the Democrats give in to their demands. That's not how you negotiate on Capitol Hill my friend. As much as I hate to say it despite nobody is happy with this in order to avoid default the Tea Party (Right Wing) might be to blame for this mess.

 

[Zyflair]

Why can't politicians do what they are supposed to do and that's to help and support the American people and this country as a whole?

- Obligations to the party: Sticking up for the party's values would make the politician be supported by those that think alike.
- Obligations to supporting states: In order to get re-elected, the states that support the politician are more crucial than the nation as a whole. There's been a large number of bills that have several statements that would benefit specific states along with under-the-table deals (don't tell me that you wouldn't think they'd do such a thing).
- Seniority: It's a sad thing, but human nature just makes this one a biggie. The longer you're around in Congress, the more power you would possess. That said, it's more of the reality for a politician to first stay in congress, and then focus on whatever he/she wants to get done.
- Checks and Balances: You want to see how twisted the powers can be inside the government? Senate can just filibuster to block the passage of a bill. For trivia, here's the longest five filibusters in US history, one lasting enough to delay a bill for 57 days, another one used to delay a debt ceiling bill.
- The challenge of majority rule with respect to minority. US aims to ideally appeal to as many as people as possible while respecting those left out, but realistically, that's just impossible. Two opposing sides rarely can get what they both want, and when you have only a slight majority, then the government will have huge problems trying to lean on either side on the issue, and nothing will be done on it because congress won't be able to agree on the inside.

There's probably a few more I forgot, but that's the major points. Also, the Super Congress was what got us out of the debt ceiling mess in the first place. It helps gives bills a faster way to get passed, as it proved in its first case. Avoid the deadlock first, correct bills that have problems once they're in effect.

 

[Card Slinger J]

I got a bad feeling about what might happen in the Senate's upcoming vote to pass the bill to raise America's National Debt/Deficit to avoid the country from going into default. They will probably not get enough votes to pass the bill, then President Obama is left with only one choice and that is to invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the Debt Ceiling. Even Pelosi has been talking about this last ditch-effort measure with Obama.

God willing If the Senate can learn from Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' effort to ensure we avoid Default it might go on deaf ears in the Senate unfortunately. To think that the Senate could be to blame for defaulting on our own country by voting no on this bill is just unthinkable, to only care about their own ideals and principles over the importance of the American people is just a major travesty on our nation. That's like committing the ultimate sin against America.

This bill isn't perfect but it's the last thing we have to ensure the fiscal safety of our country. Some people say like oh we should default and trigger a Double-Dip Recession, raise interest rates, raise gas prices, and lose the ability to borrow money from other countries. If we lose the ability to borrow money from other countries which is the basic principle of the Debt/Deficit in the first place then how do we survive as a nation? You don't raise the Debt and you're unable to borrow money, raise it and you're still able to borrow.

 

[xxashxx]

The first part of the signing is done so there is a great chance it will happen. However medicare and SSI are still on the edge of being cut. I still can't figure that one out but it could happen before the end of the year. The reason is because Bush started a war and because of bush we are paying for it. If he had not cheated his way into office Gore would have been president and this would not have happened. Because there was cheating involved the U.S. needs to step up on Security were the president is concerned. They need rules where re counts will NEVER happen and hanging chads need to be counted no matter weather they are hanging or not hanging. With these recounts means a chance to cheat. The Bush family is nothing to mess with as they are ALL cheaters. He was the first president in my time to cheat. If they did no recounts then less chances to cheat the presidency so that is the major reason why we are paying the price.

 

[Zyflair]

xxashxx. Seriously. Just stop. You're derailing the thread on to current issue of the bill, which President Bush has nothing to do with right now. Second, you are just embarrassing yourself with blaming this all on the war (a terrible oversimplification), which I must first say cannot completely contribute to the economic fall. Of course, several Democrats would be more than happy to hound on this like you are, but that's just plain wrong.

I got a bad feeling about what might happen in the Senate's upcoming vote to pass the bill to raise America's National Debt/Deficit to avoid the country from going into default. They will probably not get enough votes to pass the bill, then President Obama is left with only one choice and that is to invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the Debt Ceiling. Even Pelosi has been talking about this last ditch-effort measure with Obama.

God willing If the Senate can learn from Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' effort to ensure we avoid Default it might go on deaf ears in the Senate unfortunately. To think that the Senate could be to blame for defaulting on our own country by voting no on this bill is just unthinkable, to only care about their own ideals and principles over the importance of the American people is just a major travesty on our nation. That's like committing the ultimate sin against America.

I'm more confident about Senate letting it pass than the House, given the far better deal than Boehner's. It's been said way too many times now: if the congress wants to keep their jobs, they'll let this pass. Well, noon is the time of the vote, so we'll see.

Also, as much as I'm sure you're touched by her efforts to get in the vote, where are all the thanks to the people that actually tried to negotiate on the issue? Though I don't agree with Boehner's bill, at least he was trying. Just sit back, relax, and just let the Senate vote rather than blasting them like an ignorant patriot.

 

[Card Slinger J]

So yeah, the Senate passed the Debt Ceiling Bill. Crisis officially averted for now until 2013 when we hit the Debt Ceiling again but until that happens we still need a Balanced Budget Amendment to the U.S. Constitution with the help of the Super Committee.