How to Make a Deck Consistent + Deckbuilding

[RunningWithScizors]

I'm still trying to figure out how to build decks from scratch and how to make them consistent, and so far, nothing has worked. Nothing seems to stick with me, especially when I try to copy a deck from the Internet - it never works. It's just that I can't seem to figure out the art of deckbuilding on my own. Everyone says a good deck is consistent, but nobody can ever define it for me. So now I have three questions:

1. How do you build a deck from scratch?
2. What is consistency and how do you achieve it?
3. How will you know when your deck is ready to play in a tournament?

 

[bbninjas]

Building a deck from scratch is best undergone by figuring out what your main card/cards are. For a Virizion/Genesect deck, for an example, this is fairly standard, with Virizion, Genesect and G Booster. I then add in my draw, which is a bit difficult to describe, but you can pick that up by comparing and contrasting winning deck lists and recommended structures. I then add techs (i.e. Max Elixers) and items to boost consistency (i.e. Trainer's Mail). I then go through a refining process of testing to see what is used and left unused, and what works and does not work.

Consistency is an ongoing process that gives you the confidence that perhaps 99 of every 100 games I will be able to set up efficiently and be able to undergo my deck strategy without struggle. Decks that are more consistent will generally have more of cards that make the strategy work (i.e. Battle Compressor in Night March) or help find these cards (i.e. Trainer's Mail). The most consistent decks rely on as little gimmicks and techs as possible to execute their strategy, and require as little cards to execute this strategy. Any deck that relies on large combinations or setups where if one little piece is not their it fails is a less consistent deck.

This one is a hard one to answer, but a good start is to be both confident and familiar with your deck (as in, not misplaying much at all and knowing what he can and can't do) and that if your deck has a matchup that is over 50% for over half the expected metagame (i.e. Yveltal, Night March, Toad).

 

[RunningWithScizors]

The most consistent decks rely on as little gimmicks and techs as possible to execute their strategy, and require as little cards to execute this strategy. Any deck that relies on large combinations or setups where if one little piece is not their it fails is a less consistent deck.

Could you perhaps explain this? I've looked a lot of the tournament-winning decks out there, and their Trainer lines tend to be quite complex, with a lot of gimmicks and techs. However, when I try to use them, I don't do well. How did they figure out what to put in and what to keep out?

This one is a hard one to answer, but a good start is to be both confident and familiar with your deck (as in, not misplaying much at all and knowing what he can and can't do) and that if your deck has a matchup that is over 50% for over half the expected metagame (i.e. Yveltal, Night March, Toad).

How do you learn not to misplay? For example, what do you discard in a particular discard situation (Ultra Ball, Battle Compressor)? When you have 2 draw Supporters in your hand, one of them a Sycamore, which do you play? What about discarding away a VS Seeker? (Sometimes I'm afraid to do this.)

How do I learn my expected meta in my area? And what do I play if I don't know the meta or the tournament is so big the meta cannot be truly known?

 

[bbninjas]

Could you perhaps explain this? I've looked a lot of the tournament-winning decks out there, and their Trainer lines tend to be quite complex, with a lot of gimmicks and techs. However, when I try to use them, I don't do well. How did they figure out what to put in and what to keep out?

4 Ultra Ball
4 Professor Sycamore
4 VS Seeker
2 N/2 Shauna

1 Shaymin-EX

If you look at these decks you'll notice they all have certain additions, while some are only seen in a few decks.

How do you learn not to misplay? For example, what do you discard in a particular discard situation (Ultra Ball, Battle Compressor)? When you have 2 draw Supporters in your hand, one of them a Sycamore, which do you play? What about discarding away a VS Seeker? (Sometimes I'm afraid to do this.)

Practice for one thing. Also watching how others play is worthwhile (especially organised play streams). I learnt most of what I know from scratch, and that was by watching and asking a variety of different players.

How do I learn my expected meta in my area? And what do I play if I don't know the meta or the tournament is so big the meta cannot be truly known?

Talk to people, especially those used to that area. Try to find out what has been hyped up and the like. Look at recent winning decks (Night March is a big one), as those decks are generally something your deck needs to be decent against.

 

[RunningWithScizors]

4 Ultra Ball
4 Professor Sycamore
4 VS Seeker
2 N/2 Shauna

1 Shaymin-EX

That's a good start, but I almost never see Shauna, usually 1 Judge. Why is that?

Practice for one thing. Also watching how others play is worthwhile (especially organised play streams). I learnt most of what I know from scratch, and that was by watching and asking a variety of different players.

How much practice do you think I really need in a day? And how will I know what to take out and what to put in?

Talk to people, especially those used to that area. Try to find out what has been hyped up and the like. Look at recent winning decks (Night March is a big one), as those decks are generally something your deck needs to be decent against.

Problem is, whenever I try to talk to anyone in my local area about anything in the game, be it about deckbuilding strategies, the definition of consistency, or what the meta is, they always give me the run-around. I can never seem to get a good answer.

 

[bbninjas]

That's a good start, but I almost never see Shauna, usually 1 Judge. Why is that?

I'd say that it gives an option to disrupt your opponent's hand (i.e. make it less). Shauna is sometimes swapped with Birch, but generally this at least one copy of Judge, Shauna or Birch.

How much practice do you think I really need in a day? And how will I know what to take out and what to put in?

This isn't really easy to describe. Obviously the more practice means the greater improvement in your deck and in actually playing it. When playing decks, one of the best things to look out for is things that you don't use much. These that generally will hit the discard basically every game. These are generally techs, and are easiest to deal with. It is more difficult to decide whether you need more or less of a card, but if you're finding you aren't getting a certain card when you need it, that may hint at needing to increase counts.

Problem is, whenever I try to talk to anyone in my local area about anything in the game, be it about deckbuilding strategies, the definition of consistency, or what the meta is, they always give me the run-around. I can never seem to get a good answer.

These are fairly large and fairly topical questions that most players often will not have a clear-cut answer for. Instead, asking direct playing strategies such as "what should I do when I have a Juniper and a N in my hand, with two DCE and a tech card".

 

[RunningWithScizors]

I'd say that it gives an option to disrupt your opponent's hand (i.e. make it less). Shauna is sometimes swapped with Birch, but generally this at least one copy of Judge, Shauna or Birch.

Point well taken.

This isn't really easy to describe. Obviously the more practice means the greater improvement in your deck and in actually playing it. When playing decks, one of the best things to look out for is things that you don't use much. These that generally will hit the discard basically every game. These are generally techs, and are easiest to deal with. It is more difficult to decide whether you need more or less of a card, but if you're finding you aren't getting a certain card when you need it, that may hint at needing to increase counts.

What would you say is a ballpark estimate on amount of time/day I should practice? Just as an example.

These are fairly large and fairly topical questions that most players often will not have a clear-cut answer for. Instead, asking direct playing strategies such as "what should I do when I have a Juniper and a N in my hand, with two DCE and a tech card".

I feel like if I get the general questions answered, then the specific ones will fall into place. Let the specific ones answer themselves when they arise.

Anyway, when difficult situations like that arise, what should take priority? I'm...kinda clumsy at that.

 

[bbninjas]

What would you say is a ballpark estimate on amount of time/day I should practice? Just as an example.

I believe those that are really into the game spend most of their free time (about 3+ hours) practicing.

I feel like if I get the general questions answered, then the specific ones will fall into place. Let the specific ones answer themselves when they arise.

Doesn't change the fact that people are less likely to answer the general questions than the specific questions.

Anyway, when difficult situations like that arise, what should take priority? I'm...kinda clumsy at that.

It's basically needing to figure out whether or not you need those cards later on, and if you need to draw lots of cards. However, generally you want to not discard many DCE at all, as they are generally quite valuable to your deck. You may also need to draw lots of cards to continue set up or something like that than going with the Juniper is optimal, however if drawing lots of cards would be a luxury, you should go with the safer play in N.

 

[RunningWithScizors]

In general, what is the general strategy one should adopt when choosing what to discard, shuffle in, bring to the top of the deck, etc. How does one prioritize these things? I could use a few pointers here. (Bear in mind I don't have a set deck anymore.)

 

[Otaku]

Before reading what I am about to say, please note I may range from slightly below average to slightly above average as a player. I say this because

Consistency is an ongoing process that gives you the confidence that perhaps 99 of every 100 games I will be able to set up efficiently and be able to undergo my deck strategy without struggle.

sounds incredibly optimistic. I think it is more like 7 out of 10 to 9 out of 10 depending upon the deck. Unless you are playing solitaire and just give yourself a turn limit. There are too many decks that disrupt setup via lock or simply an amazingly aggressive open, in addition to deck hiccups and misplays.

In general, what is the general strategy one should adopt when choosing what to discard, shuffle in, bring to the top of the deck, etc. How does one prioritize these things? I could use a few pointers here. (Bear in mind I don't have a set deck anymore.)

When it comes to discarding here are a few factors that I consider:

1) How likely will I need it for this game?
2) How difficult will it be to reclaim from the discard pile?
3) Miscellaneous

As a quick hypothetical example, say you are running Night March and you have

Juniper and a N in my hand, with two DCE and a tech card

at the start of your turn. If you have at least one Night Marcher without any Energy you can use one DCE. Then consider how badly you'll need the TecH card and the other DCE. Got four Puzzle of Times left in your deck? Will shuffling your opponent's hand more than likely help said opponent? Go for the Professor Sycamore. If those are your last two DCE and you have no way of getting them back from the discard? Especially if you also have no other Energy left in your deck at all, do not use Professor Sycamore. Either N or if that is also a bad deal, hold off for your next draw. Things will be confusing on borderline cases, like where you've just got to take one more KO to win and odds are good you'll draw what you need off of the Professor Sycamore but if you whiff, you'll risk losing the game because your opponent will take out your current Active Pokémon, which is the only one with any Energy on it and those two DCE are your last ones not in the Prized or in the discard pile.

 

[RunningWithScizors]

I think I'm getting what you're saying, Otaku. But I'm still having problems getting decks set up and getting the momentum going, no matter what deck I play. What could I use in any deck that could fix this?

Building decks (at least the Trainer lines) is still confusing. I can get the Pokemon lines down and the Energy lines down, but how do you figure out the Trainer lines - especially when building/teching for the meta/lack thereof?

 

[Otaku]

I think I'm getting what you're saying, Otaku. But I'm still having problems getting decks set up and getting the momentum going, no matter what deck I play. What could I use in any deck that could fix this?

Building decks (at least the Trainer lines) is still confusing. I can get the Pokemon lines down and the Energy lines down, but how do you figure out the Trainer lines - especially when building/teching for the meta/lack thereof?

Unfortunately I'm not too great at it myself. For now I rely on trial and error. The difference is that I do significantly better when using a proven decklist so long as I've taken some time to learn it.

 

[RunningWithScizors]

Unfortunately I'm not too great at it myself. For now I rely on trial and error. The difference is that I do significantly better when using a proven decklist so long as I've taken some time to learn it.

Problem is, all the really proven decklists are under paywalls, and I'm not willing or able to shell out money for a subscription. Where's a good source of proven decklists that won't cost me a thing?

 

[Otaku]

Problem is, all the really proven decklists are under paywalls, and I'm not willing or able to shell out money for a subscription. Where's a good source of proven decklists that won't cost me a thing?

They publish winning deck lists for certain major events at pokemon.com. You know, the official Pokémon website run by the company itself. XD For example here are the Week 3 winners of the recent State Championships.

 

[RunningWithScizors]

How are looking at decks from past championships going to help me build new decks from scratch when new sets come out? That's what I have trouble at. I really think I need to go back to basics with regard to tournament-level deckbuliding, and I don't know where I could find any articles about that.

 

[bbninjas]

How are looking at decks from past championships going to help me build new decks from scratch when new sets come out? That's what I have trouble at. I really think I need to go back to basics with regard to tournament-level deckbuliding, and I don't know where I could find any articles about that.

Once a set comes out, there are one of three things that could happen. Firstly, the set doesn't affect the deck at all. Secondly, the set brings out a new archetype that your deck has difficulty/no problem beating. Thirdly, the set brings out a tech or a Trainer that would work well in your old deck. If the first situation arises, you probably don't need to worry about a thing. If the second situation arises, and if you have difficulty, it may be that your deck is going to struggle a little, if that new archetype is dominant enough. If the second situation arises and you have no problem, you probably don't need to worry about anything. If the third situation arises, you just need to take a card out of your deck and swap it with the new tech. Often it's because one card does a similar thing but is superior, however sometimes it's more that you need to decide priorities - which tech is more important? That's a different conversation altogether.

 

[Otaku]

How are looking at decks from past championships going to help me build new decks from scratch when new sets come out? That's what I have trouble at. I really think I need to go back to basics with regard to tournament-level deckbuliding, and I don't know where I could find any articles about that.

If you need to go back to the basics go ahead. For the record though the article to which I linked should have been covering winners from the last few weekends of Stage Championships. Barring the odd promo the card pool for organized play won't change until three weeks after the release of XY Fates Collide. I think that is May 25th. Officially that set releases May 4th so if you hurry you'd at least have a week or two without lists really changing.

As for learning, study the lists and look for what is and is not in common. Consider how it differs from your own list.

 

[RunningWithScizors]

How many decks do I have to pore through in order to get an idea of how to build a deck well? Theres been a lot of States, and a lot of decks in the T8s, so youre talking about 50+ decks to study. So, what all *do* these decks have in common?

 

[bbninjas]

How many decks do I have to pore through in order to get an idea of how to build a deck well? Theres been a lot of States, and a lot of decks in the T8s, so youre talking about 50+ decks to study. So, what all *do* these decks have in common?

You really can't put figures to this stuff. You may only need to look at 6 decks and notice the similarities.

What do those decks have in common? A certain range of Pokemon, Energy and Trainers. Certain counts of each card. Similar cards used. Number of basic Pokemon. Number of Energy, and ways to get back that Energy, or recycle that Energy another way. That type of stuff. You have to know that this isn't something you can just explain. It requires observations (which comes naturally to some but more difficult for others) and playtesting, and a general skill at strategy. (The "they did this because of this, so I should do this for X, Y, Z reasons" type of analytical thinking.)

 

[TuxedoBlack]

@RunningWithScizors Remember, deck building is more of "an art, and not science" - I tried a scientific approach years ago and discovered that there is too much randomness in the game for my so-called scientific principles to work. Lol. Also, a tournament "winning" deck has other critical components not related to the deck itself: deck's popularity (i.e., sheer number of players running same deck at tournaments, player skill, match-ups, and one's lack of "bad" luck (e.g., 3 of your deck's critical Basic Pokémon are prized) during most games.

Consider using proxy cards to build and test deck ideas, tweak you deck, and test some more till you are pleased with the deck given your play style. By the way, multiple players (with equal skill level) can run identical "top tier" decks, but still have very different tournament results... There are even a few websites where you can actually play online for free (although one is completely free right now and do not require any Pokémon Code cards). These are great resources that can aid in your building and refining decks before you actually invest in the cards themselves.

Lastly, your play style has a significant impact on cards you choose to use, as well. while some players "feel" comfortable running just 4 DCE in certain decks (e.g., ToadBats), I would not.

@bbninjas and @Otaku GREAT feedback. Thanks.