Discussion How Good will Ray-GX Variants be in a Post-Rotation Meta?

crispierdna

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I've been playing around with proxies for a couple variants for Ray-GX in the last couple of weeks and I think the deck is certainly fast enough to keep up early/mid game, particularly if you're playing wishful baton over choice band.

How does Ray-GX in any form stack up with things like Beast Box, Vikabulu, UltraNecrozma/Malamar, and Buzzwole/Zoroark Goodstuffs after rotation? What's the deck's biggest issue, and what is it gonna struggle to beat?
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
The only variant I have heard that uses Rayquaza-GX is VikaRay. Is that what you are referring to?
 

crispierdna

Aspiring Trainer
Member
The only variant I have heard that uses Rayquaza-GX is VikaRay. Is that what you are referring to?
The other two variants I've heard of are the dragon turbo variant with Drampa from Dragon Storm and Latias Prism star to just turbo a ton of energies into play turn 2/3 and have rayquaza hitting 180+ by turn 3, and the ultra beast/beast ring variant that uses xurkitree gx and other baby UBs as something to attach to with beast ring to get ray powered up. I really like the dragon turbo one with zinnia and latias prism star and drampa and whatnot, but the beast ring one seems kinda gimmicky. Still interested in what you think.
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
That's crazy! I haven't hears of either of those variants. I like the Ultra Beast version, that sounds fun.

- Beast Box - I've seen 3 variants of Beast Box and all of them use Naganadel-GX. In any case, Beast Box is REALLY aggressive, and several UBs can OHKO through their GX, but this’ll usually happen after you down one of their GXs. Mid-game is really ugly, I don’t think it’s going to go favorably

- Vikabulu - This is a build that can do 180 on turn 2 and it loses very little to rotation. I think VikaRay is a bit slower and not as reliable as Bulu, despite Ray's lack of a damage ceiling. I also don't think you're going to see much at the start of the rotation that exceeds 210

- Ultra Necrozma GX/Malamar - I think this deck will operate at the same speed, but they have some odd HP Pokemon like Ultra Necrozma and they also don't have a damage ceiling. This build can also stream attackers like crazy once it gets rolling.

- Buzzwole/Zoroark Goodstuffs - I'm unsure on how Zoroark and/or Buzzwole will look post rotation. Buzzwole-centric builds will go the way of the Dodo. Zoroark will be good, but not great. Because they will need to 2HKO you and you can OHKO it as the game goes on, this could work in your favor.
 

Duo

RIP Nessa 2023
Member
I think Rayquaza GX can be an incredibly fun deck with a lot of sweet options, and I think the Vikavolt variation of it is absolutely not the right way to play it. Assuming a standard 3/1/3 Vikavolt line with 3-4 Rare Candy...you're talking about 1/6th of the deck commited to ONLY energy acceleration and NOTHING else. You're also relying on a stage 2 while relying on things like Dragon Storm Drampa and the Ultra Beasts makes this a full basic Pokemon deck.

I believe that combining both of the other options, such as throwing in a Latias Prism Star and a few copies of Dragon Storm Drampa, as well as playing the Ultra Beast Strategy is likely the best combination for it.

I actually think Rayquaza GX can be better than Vikabulu because it never relies on a stage 2 and has access to Mysterious Treasure in a format where setting up Pokemon becomes a bigger challenge without Brigette. Mysterious Treasure makes your set up more consistent and makes your Leles more consistent as well.

Here are cards I would highly consider for the deck.

Pokemon

1. Full 4 copies of Rayquaza GX - Normally I think that 3 copies of your main attacker is enough, but you want the full 4 copies to make sure you can maximize on its milling ability.

2. 2-3 copies of Drampa Dragon Storm - this is a good card to play early on. Lay down some Rayquaza GX on bench, hope to mill excess energy, and get 3 attaches in one turn - one from Rayquaza GX ability, one from attach for turn, one from Drampa's attack.

3. Latias Prism Star - A 1 energy attack that could possibly put 6 basic energy onto the field at once - that powers up Rayquaza GX to 180 damage, 210 with choice band in just one turn. This is just a mandatory card for the deck.

4. 2-3 copies of Pheromosa GX - A grass ultra beast with a very powerful GX attack that can OHKO things past 4 prizes taken. The turn 1 attack is very good since it deals 30 damage immediately, but it also adds 30 damage to your Rayquaza GX for having a grass energy on it making it a pseudo-60 damage attack specifically in this archetype.

5. 2-3 copies of Xurkitree GX - Gives you special energy hate to wall anyone using Beast Energy, DCE, Counter Energy, what have you. Rumbling waves is a very good 2 hit KO attack, and the GX attack is situationally useful as well. Having both Pheromosa GX and Xurkitree GX in the team also makes sure that you don't get completely swept by Fairy decks like Gardy GX.

6. 2-3 Tapu Lele GX for supporter searching.

7. 2/2 line of Zoroark GX - You aren't hurting for bench space here. Let's get some draw power going, especially because this deck can play some interesting supporters.

Playing Pheromosa GX and Xurkitree GX weakens Latias Prism Star, but the trade off is the access to Beast Ring which can accelerate energy without ending turn. This gives you access to multiple types of energy acceleration for multiple types of situations. Flexibility is best.

Supporters

**4 Cynthia, 3 Guzma, 1 Steven's Decision, and 1 Lillie are implied. Not all may agree with that, but I think it's a solid base lineup of supporters.

1. Volkner - This guy is the reason why I think the Beast Ring strategy is absolutely a must have for the deck. Volkner for Electric and Beast Ring/Mysterious Treasure, then Beast Ring for 2 more energy or search out your Rayquaza GX/Drampa/Latias. This not only guarantees that Pheromosa GX and Xurkitree GX can attack the same turn Volkner is played, but that's one card for instant 90 damage boost.

2. Mallow - Rayquaza GX mills the top 3 cards of your deck on play. Playing Mallow means that you can guarantee mill 2 energy no matter what so that Rayquaza GX will never miss its ability in the early game. One Mallow guarantees that you'll have 2 energy in the discard pile to guarantee that 2 Rayquaza GXs will hit. I think only one copy of Mallow is needed for just in case your hand doesn't see the energy to discard through Ultra Ball/Mysterious Treasure/Zoroark GX.

Items

Personally, I prefer Choice Band over Wishful Baton. You should be spreading your energy intelligently and making sure that you aren't losing 3+ energy to a KO very often. Also, Field Blower is still a thing. I don't run them anymore because Garbotoxin and Parallel City are gone after rotation, but I know many people are still going to. Choice Band is fundamentally extra energy just in case you need that extra attach for turn to close out the deal, kind of the same reason why Choice Band is run in Gardevoir GX (attach DCE, Secret Spring Fairy, attach Choice Band, that's +120 damage in 1 turn).

One Rescue Stretcher and one Energy Retrieval I believe are mandatory in this deck. Rayquaza GX's mill can lead to excess energy or Pokemon loss, and you need to make sure you can recover cards that were excessively milled. Volkner allows you to guarantee seeing your one of Rescue Stretcher and Energy Retrieval.

I don't think this deck needs more than 2 Beast Ring since it's an alternative strategy rather than a core strategy. One copy just isn't enough to me, though.

Also, here is a skeleton list I threw together just as a starting base.


Pokemon x18

Rayquaza GX x4
Pheromosa GX x2
Xurkitree GX x2
Tapu Lele GX x3
Zoroark GX x2
Zorua x2
Drampa (Dragon Storm) x2
Latias Prism Star x1

Supporter x12

Cynthia x4
Guzma x3
Volkner x2
Steven's Decision x1
Mallow x1
Lillie x1

Item x18

Ultra Ball x4
Mysterious Treasure x4
Choice Band x3
Switch x3
Beast Ring x2
Energy Retrieval x1
Rescue Stretcher x1

Energy x12

Grass Energy x6
Electric Energy x6

Likely needs refinement, but I think it combines the best of all worlds for Rayquaza GX. Energy Acceleration, good set up, alternative attackers & type coverage, and various useful GXs.
 

crispierdna

Aspiring Trainer
Member
That's crazy! I haven't hears of either of those variants. I like the Ultra Beast version, that sounds fun.

- Beast Box - I've seen 3 variants of Beast Box and all of them use Naganadel-GX. In any case, Beast Box is REALLY aggressive, and several UBs can OHKO through their GX, but this’ll usually happen after you down one of their GXs. Mid-game is really ugly, I don’t think it’s going to go favorably

- Vikabulu - This is a build that can do 180 on turn 2 and it loses very little to rotation. I think VikaRay is a bit slower and not as reliable as Bulu, despite Ray's lack of a damage ceiling. I also don't think you're going to see much at the start of the rotation that exceeds 210

- Ultra Necrozma GX/Malamar - I think this deck will operate at the same speed, but they have some odd HP Pokemon like Ultra Necrozma and they also don't have a damage ceiling. This build can also stream attackers like crazy once it gets rolling.

- Buzzwole/Zoroark Goodstuffs - I'm unsure on how Zoroark and/or Buzzwole will look post rotation. Buzzwole-centric builds will go the way of the Dodo. Zoroark will be good, but not great. Because they will need to 2HKO you and you can OHKO it as the game goes on, this could work in your favor.

This is exactly the information I was looking for, thank you! If you couldn't tell I'm still a newer player; I've lurked the game for a long time and know a lot of theorymons but I've only ever played in a single tournament match, so this type of information is super useful for me as I'm getting an idea of what I want to play post-rotation. Thanks again!

I think Rayquaza GX can be an incredibly fun deck with a lot of sweet options, and I think the Vikavolt variation of it is absolutely not the right way to play it. Assuming a standard 3/1/3 Vikavolt line with 3-4 Rare Candy...you're talking about 1/6th of the deck commited to ONLY energy acceleration and NOTHING else. You're also relying on a stage 2 while relying on things like Dragon Storm Drampa and the Ultra Beasts makes this a full basic Pokemon deck.

I believe that combining both of the other options, such as throwing in a Latias Prism Star and a few copies of Dragon Storm Drampa, as well as playing the Ultra Beast Strategy is likely the best combination for it.

I actually think Rayquaza GX can be better than Vikabulu because it never relies on a stage 2 and has access to Mysterious Treasure in a format where setting up Pokemon becomes a bigger challenge without Brigette. Mysterious Treasure makes your set up more consistent and makes your Leles more consistent as well.

Here are cards I would highly consider for the deck.

Pokemon

1. Full 4 copies of Rayquaza GX - Normally I think that 3 copies of your main attacker is enough, but you want the full 4 copies to make sure you can maximize on its milling ability.

2. 2-3 copies of Drampa Dragon Storm - this is a good card to play early on. Lay down some Rayquaza GX on bench, hope to mill excess energy, and get 3 attaches in one turn - one from Rayquaza GX ability, one from attach for turn, one from Drampa's attack.

3. Latias Prism Star - A 1 energy attack that could possibly put 6 basic energy onto the field at once - that powers up Rayquaza GX to 180 damage, 210 with choice band in just one turn. This is just a mandatory card for the deck.

4. 2-3 copies of Pheromosa GX - A grass ultra beast with a very powerful GX attack that can OHKO things past 4 prizes taken. The turn 1 attack is very good since it deals 30 damage immediately, but it also adds 30 damage to your Rayquaza GX for having a grass energy on it making it a pseudo-60 damage attack specifically in this archetype.

5. 2-3 copies of Xurkitree GX - Gives you special energy hate to wall anyone using Beast Energy, DCE, Counter Energy, what have you. Rumbling waves is a very good 2 hit KO attack, and the GX attack is situationally useful as well. Having both Pheromosa GX and Xurkitree GX in the team also makes sure that you don't get completely swept by Fairy decks like Gardy GX.

6. 2-3 Tapu Lele GX for supporter searching.

7. 2/2 line of Zoroark GX - You aren't hurting for bench space here. Let's get some draw power going, especially because this deck can play some interesting supporters.

Playing Pheromosa GX and Xurkitree GX weakens Latias Prism Star, but the trade off is the access to Beast Ring which can accelerate energy without ending turn. This gives you access to multiple types of energy acceleration for multiple types of situations. Flexibility is best.

Supporters

**4 Cynthia, 3 Guzma, 1 Steven's Decision, and 1 Lillie are implied. Not all may agree with that, but I think it's a solid base lineup of supporters.

1. Volkner - This guy is the reason why I think the Beast Ring strategy is absolutely a must have for the deck. Volkner for Electric and Beast Ring/Mysterious Treasure, then Beast Ring for 2 more energy or search out your Rayquaza GX/Drampa/Latias. This not only guarantees that Pheromosa GX and Xurkitree GX can attack the same turn Volkner is played, but that's one card for instant 90 damage boost.

2. Mallow - Rayquaza GX mills the top 3 cards of your deck on play. Playing Mallow means that you can guarantee mill 2 energy no matter what so that Rayquaza GX will never miss its ability in the early game. One Mallow guarantees that you'll have 2 energy in the discard pile to guarantee that 2 Rayquaza GXs will hit. I think only one copy of Mallow is needed for just in case your hand doesn't see the energy to discard through Ultra Ball/Mysterious Treasure/Zoroark GX.

Items

Personally, I prefer Choice Band over Wishful Baton. You should be spreading your energy intelligently and making sure that you aren't losing 3+ energy to a KO very often. Also, Field Blower is still a thing. I don't run them anymore because Garbotoxin and Parallel City are gone after rotation, but I know many people are still going to. Choice Band is fundamentally extra energy just in case you need that extra attach for turn to close out the deal, kind of the same reason why Choice Band is run in Gardevoir GX (attach DCE, Secret Spring Fairy, attach Choice Band, that's +120 damage in 1 turn).

One Rescue Stretcher and one Energy Retrieval I believe are mandatory in this deck. Rayquaza GX's mill can lead to excess energy or Pokemon loss, and you need to make sure you can recover cards that were excessively milled. Volkner allows you to guarantee seeing your one of Rescue Stretcher and Energy Retrieval.

I don't think this deck needs more than 2 Beast Ring since it's an alternative strategy rather than a core strategy. One copy just isn't enough to me, though.

Also, here is a skeleton list I threw together just as a starting base.


Pokemon x18

Rayquaza GX x4
Pheromosa GX x2
Xurkitree GX x2
Tapu Lele GX x3
Zoroark GX x2
Zorua x2
Drampa (Dragon Storm) x2
Latias Prism Star x1

Supporter x12

Cynthia x4
Guzma x3
Volkner x2
Steven's Decision x1
Mallow x1
Lillie x1

Item x18

Ultra Ball x4
Mysterious Treasure x4
Choice Band x3
Switch x3
Beast Ring x2
Energy Retrieval x1
Rescue Stretcher x1

Energy x12

Grass Energy x6
Electric Energy x6

Likely needs refinement, but I think it combines the best of all worlds for Rayquaza GX. Energy Acceleration, good set up, alternative attackers & type coverage, and various useful GXs.

Thanks for the advice! Couple of questions/concerns though:

To your point about not being starved for bench space, I'd argue you kindof are. If you're playing 4 Rays and trying to get them into play to activate their abilities, you'll almost always have 1-3 Ray on the bench. Then you're playing 4 ultra beasts which will frequently be bench-sitting. Then you've got your usual suspect with Lele who's gonna be occupying a spot pretty regularly, and then possibly a Drampa or a Latias, so I'm concerned that Zoroark is gonna be a little bit too much.

I really like your thoughts on Mallow and Volkner, definitely something to include in every ray deck, if only to get an energy and grab a mysterious treasure.

As for Wishful Baton over CB, I get what you're saying. I don't think there's any reason not to include a WB or 2 with a couple of CB, since playing smart with them can save you from losing 2 prizes and losing 90 damage from the board. You can find it when you need it with Volkner and worst case scenario you can attach it to a Latias you know you're gonna sacrifice just to save the energy attached to it.

As a whole, I think the combination of both the beast ring engine and the dragon turbo engine are a little much. particularly if you add the Zororark, I'm thinking it might get a little clunky and interfere with the ability of the deck to set up ASAP. I've found that either engine alone ends up with ray hitting 150+ by turn 3 consistently, but will adding more cards slow that down? Just food for thought.
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
This is exactly the information I was looking for, thank you! If you couldn't tell I'm still a newer player; I've lurked the game for a long time and know a lot of theorymons but I've only ever played in a single tournament match, so this type of information is super useful for me as I'm getting an idea of what I want to play post-rotation. Thanks again!

No problem! I love doing theorymon as I follow the meta, but don't get much an opportunity to practice (until after Worlds).

If you're just starting out, don't be afraid to netdeck just to get your feet wet for tournaments and competitive play. When I first started, all I did was control and I wished I branched out a bit more just to get experience with other builds. I've been doing collectable games for a combined total of 17 years across 7 games. About 80% of what I have ever played was control. Post roation, I'll be building my first aggro deck in 11 years (primarilly because control will be super dead in both formats), so it's quite a new experience.

If you don't have them yet, you might want to look into getting Tapu Lele-GX. I believe the price will drop a bit maybe after NAIC and when Worlds starts. YEs, they are expensive, but they will be relevant in practically every deck except maybe Beast Box (but as it stands, the BB deck I'm planning to run is going to cost around $80 total. But I'm building it from the ground up as I don't have any of the cards to make it).

But yeah, keep your eyes open here. Ask questions. Heyfonte is a good FB group if you are heard geared for competitive.

Oh, and I think we all need to start putting Greninja GX on our radars, as I'm hearing that it can take down Malamar builds (if you know what you're doing).
 

Duo

RIP Nessa 2023
Member
This is exactly the information I was looking for, thank you! If you couldn't tell I'm still a newer player; I've lurked the game for a long time and know a lot of theorymons but I've only ever played in a single tournament match, so this type of information is super useful for me as I'm getting an idea of what I want to play post-rotation. Thanks again!



Thanks for the advice! Couple of questions/concerns though:

To your point about not being starved for bench space, I'd argue you kindof are. If you're playing 4 Rays and trying to get them into play to activate their abilities, you'll almost always have 1-3 Ray on the bench. Then you're playing 4 ultra beasts which will frequently be bench-sitting. Then you've got your usual suspect with Lele who's gonna be occupying a spot pretty regularly, and then possibly a Drampa or a Latias, so I'm concerned that Zoroark is gonna be a little bit too much.

I really like your thoughts on Mallow and Volkner, definitely something to include in every ray deck, if only to get an energy and grab a mysterious treasure.

As for Wishful Baton over CB, I get what you're saying. I don't think there's any reason not to include a WB or 2 with a couple of CB, since playing smart with them can save you from losing 2 prizes and losing 90 damage from the board. You can find it when you need it with Volkner and worst case scenario you can attach it to a Latias you know you're gonna sacrifice just to save the energy attached to it.

As a whole, I think the combination of both the beast ring engine and the dragon turbo engine are a little much. particularly if you add the Zororark, I'm thinking it might get a little clunky and interfere with the ability of the deck to set up ASAP. I've found that either engine alone ends up with ray hitting 150+ by turn 3 consistently, but will adding more cards slow that down? Just food for thought.

Definitely good food for thought.

I jumped the gun on bit when thinking about the bench space, honestly, but I still think Zoroark GX is a really good draw engine for the deck since it also helps you discard energy for Drampa & Latias. I especially think this because the deck has some very important utility supporters that prevent you from playing something like a Cynthia to bolster your hand size.

Could be too clunky, but honestly I'm not sure. It was a skeleton list that I threw together with my immediate instincts and is definitely far from being final.

I think Rayquaza GX, at least considering the cards that we know will exist, will kind of struggle against a lot of other decks. I feel like the deck needs to be "luckier" than your opponent's deck in order to consistently pull off its punches, but we'll see. A few more expansions could make it become amazing.
 

Kietharr

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I think you need to look at a non-conventional engine for this because Bulu is flat out better as a Vikavolt acceleration target. Maybe even the mostly forgotten Dragonair SUM in conjunction with Lady. You need 6 energy on the field to get OHKOs out and Lady gets you to 4. I think there's definitely going to be an opportunity for other OHKO decks to shine after rotation because Ultra Necrozma loses float stone, which is a huge deal for that deck more than most others. I still don't feel that this deck will manage to beat out Bulu in terms of consistent OHKO threat though just because it's so dependent on keeping energy on the field.

In terms of overall viability, I would say Rayquaza will sit pretty firmly in tier 3 or 4 in the immediate post rotation meta. I think there will be better OHKO decks out there and I think that there's a pretty strong possiblity of Sylveon gaining a lot of traction in the first few months. Once we get Turbo Strike Solgaleo it's up in the air again, we could easily see fairy forced to the sidelines
 

judda94

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I agree with Kietharr, on paper I wasn't expecting much from BukuVika but its a great deck as long as it sets up well but I have not found much trouble setting up.
Once the format slows down a bit this deck will be even better. I for one do not believe that Drampa will be good enough you have to attack to get the energy out making it very slow. If Drampa sets up well you are looking turn 3 before Ray is any good but with Vika you can usually get a turn 2 Vikavolt on the bench and have Bulu hitting for 180.

Maybe I am underestimating Drampa or overlooking something but I don't see it being very good. I dont even think Rayquaza will see play in a Vika deck I don't think the consistency Bulu can have
 
Top