Discussion Hot Techs for After Rotation

[awesomeMSG]

Recently I have been thinking what decks will be big and how we can combat them for after rotation. This thread will kind of have two parts being what decks will be big and ways to help against that certain match up. If you don't know what a tech is, it is a card that helps against a certain matchup. For example, the stardust Jirachi.

 

[Frosstoise]

For decks not running Hydregion EX, Zebstrika, or M Mewtwo EX with Vanishing Strike, Pokemon Ranger is going to be a pretty useful one. Hex Maniac will continue to be a seriously useful addition to break through Garbodor for a turn to get things humming. Ninja Boy I think is going to see some play as well, as a rather useful way of dealing with poor openers (Hoopa exchanged for literally anything else? Yes Please!)

 

[zaratath]

How does hex help get passed garbodor? I might be missing something blatantly obvious but if you play hex maniac it cancels garbodor's ability and all of the other ones in play. if I'm missing something please let me know thx.

 

[Frosstoise]

You are right, it does not help. A great number of ability jerks popped into my head, and I picked the one most inappropriate one. Lots of other incredible use cases for Hex Maniac though, but Lysandre is the valuable Garbodor buster.

 

[bbninjas]

I'm increasingly considering Banette ROS as a potential tech, as without reliable ways to discarding Tools and the loss of the auto-inclusion of Muscle Band, it could be a decent response to Megas. That is a double-edged sword, however, as the lack of reliable Tool-discarders means Garbodor can run rampant and turn off Banette's Ability.

On that train of thought, Twisted Spoon could be a popular replacement for Muscle Band, protecting against those tripping effect-based attacks, notably Mewtwo-EX's Damage Swap.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

See, Garbodor is a consistent problem for the next meta since you can't do much about it. Going first will be extremely important once again. While no one is going to run a 4-4 Garb line with 4 Wally (well, they can)m getting a turn one Wally shuts down any kind of setup play. You go second and can't play your Shaymins.

As for important techs, Klefki plus Revive tech to stop Mega Evolved Pokemon for a turn could be decent since Megas will see play. Also, decks that use little energy to pay for attacks could use Mew to help against M Mewtwo EX but I hear those decks are just running Garb as well...

Glaceon EX might also be used to help combat evolved Pokemon so Pokemon Ranger is a must. I can't really think of any other techs. Its all matchup dependent.

 

[Archiemon]

I'm increasingly considering Banette ROS as a potential tech, as without reliable ways to discarding Tools and the loss of the auto-inclusion of Muscle Band, it could be a decent response to Megas. That is a double-edged sword, however, as the lack of reliable Tool-discarders means Garbodor can run rampant and turn off Banette's Ability.

On that train of thought, Twisted Spoon could be a popular replacement for Muscle Band, protecting against those tripping effect-based attacks, notably Mewtwo-EX's Damage Swap.

How about the ancient trait Banette to actually and completely shut down Megas and Garbodor as it prevents evolution

 

[Frosstoise]

Given that Banette ROS' evolution lock is attack based, it's going to have to stay active to chain, and something tells me it's not going to be nearly as tyrannical as Toad. You can keep the megas at bay for a little while in an attempt setup, but that 90 health is pretty fragile.

 

[bbninjas]

How about the ancient trait Banette to actually and completely shut down Megas and Garbodor as it prevents evolution

Pretty much what Frosstoise said. Since it is an attacker with a low damage output, Banette AT would need to be a card centerpiece to the main strategy for it to be effective, rather than a tech.

 

[Chancewoot]

See, Garbodor is a consistent problem for the next meta since you can't do much about it. Going first will be extremely important once again. While no one is going to run a 4-4 Garb line with 4 Wally (well, they can)m getting a turn one Wally shuts down any kind of setup play. You go second and can't play your Shaymins.

As for important techs, Klefki plus Revive tech to stop Mega Evolved Pokemon for a turn could be decent since Megas will see play. Also, decks that use little energy to pay for attacks could use Mew to help against M Mewtwo EX but I hear those decks are just running Garb as well...

Glaceon EX might also be used to help combat evolved Pokemon so Pokemon Ranger is a must. I can't really think of any other techs. Its all matchup dependent.

Mega Mewtwo is such a rough matchup for a lot of decks (That aren't Rayquaza/Sceptile), it and Garbodor makes any rogue deck just cry. A big reason why I probably won't play Volcanion is because it only has one favorable matchup (Sceptile), Rayquaza is simply faster and can hit harder, Mega Mewtwo just wrecks that matchup with raw strength. I feel like Darktina will be a good response to these Mega decks, but I personally probably won't play the deck (prolly playing Sceptile) because it loses to itself way too much.

I feel like Silent Lab could be pretty spicy, in Mega decks to counter Giratina, and help the Rayquaza matchup.

Lugia looks really interesting, seems like big EXs are coming back, and a cheap 1 prize big hitter will be nice, probably will run 1- 3 in Sceptile variants, you have plenty of energy, why not put it to work. It also one hits Shaymin, which is super nice.

Mega Catcher looks really good against slower Megas like Mewtwo/Primal Groudon.

Lass's Special against Rayquaza. Not that good, but still a thought.

Giovanni's Scheme in Mega Sceptile decks so they can actually 2 hit some stuff.

 

[camohunter19]

Mega Catcher looks really good against slower Megas like Mewtwo/Primal Groudon.

Mega Catcher won't affect Primal Groudon because of Theta Stop.

I could see Giovanni's Scheme being a neat tech in Mewtwo decks, since it helps Mewtwo hit 180 with 5 energies between the actives.[/QUOTE]

 

[Frosstoise]

I absolutely love a one off Giovanni's Scheme in a deck. The option of drawing up to 5, or increasing damage output by 20 gives it fantastic flexibility, based on your needs at the time you've got it in hand. One could argue that the draw up to 5 is lacking compared to other draw supporters (and they'd be right,) but that damage boost can sure be helpful; moreso now that muscle band is going; an extra 20 can mean all the difference in hitting your numbers.

 

[Chancewoot]

Sorry, completely forgot about what makes Groudon so strong. I feel like Giovanni's Scheme is going to be good to play (Mainly in Sceptile/any decks that lack the ability to 2 hit KO), especially with the rise of the 210+ hp Pokemon it seems good enough to at least make a tech one of out of it.

 

[awesomeMSG]

Parrellel City and Delinquint Combo would be monstrous against Mega Ray for after rotation. Play delinquent so they discard three Pokemon and three cards. Then hit them with parrellel city so they discard two more Pokemon. The only Pokemon recovery options are super rod which means it will be hard for the opponent to come back from it.

 

[Otaku]

If you don't know what a tech is, it is a card that helps against a certain matchup. For example, the stardust Jirachi.

That... that is the correct usage of "tech", in a concise manner. You don't know how happy that makes me! T^T (tears of joy!)

Pretty much what Frosstoise said. Since it is an attacker with a low damage output, Banette AT would need to be a card centerpiece to the main strategy for it to be effective, rather than a tech.

Sorry @Archiemon but I've got to add to what @Frosstoise and bbninjas already pointed out; Pokémon Ranger can also break the Evolution lock even if you get it going.

The only Pokemon recovery options are super rod which means it will be hard for the opponent to come back from it.

Makes me wonder when/if we will be getting Karen; she'll a solid play in some of the more Pokémon intensive decks even if it means burning your Supporter for the turn just because you actually want to recycle a lot of Pokémon. Otherwise, she'll be a tech counter to Vespiquen decks, and an annoyance to anything that prefers to thin itself about. I mean once your opponent has his or her field mostly full, once you're down to your last Prize or two, getting Hoopa-EX, two Sceptile-EX, and two M Sceptile-EX (especially without Sceptile Spirit Link) is unwieldy. If you're trying to draw into something in particular, it can cost you the game.

 

[PokieMorff]

... Hex Maniac will continue to be a seriously useful addition to break through Garbodor for a turn to get things humming.

As others mentioned, obviously Hex will do nothing for Garbador, but it will be extremely useful for vileplume (AOR #3), which I expect to continue to see some play.

Additionally, i think the Rattata (well.. old one that is getting reprinted in Oct) will be an interesting Tech to remove tool cards. The downside of that card is.... still doesn't do anything for garbador, but it is useful for removing other tools such as spirit links and klefki.

 

[ambo]

The new Mewtwo looks like a strong counter against M Mewtwo.

[C][C] Psychic: 20+ damage. Does 20 more damage for each Energy attached to your opponent’s Active Pokemon.

This means that if the opposing M Mewtwo has 4 energy on it then your 1-Prize Mewtwo can OHKO it with a Fighting Fury Belt and weakness. I think this may be a one of in any deck that plays DCE just so you can run through your opponents M Mewtwos. Also it wouldn't be too bad against Yveltal EX.

 

[Otaku]

As others mentioned, obviously Hex will do nothing for Garbador, but it will be extremely useful for vileplume (AOR #3), which I expect to continue to see some play.

Additionally, i think the Rattata (well.. old one that is getting reprinted in Oct) will be an interesting Tech to remove tool cards. The downside of that card is.... still doesn't do anything for garbador, but it is useful for removing other tools such as spirit links and klefki.

Silent Lab is still in the format as well though, and the new Rattata (the old one basically shares the same artwork, Weakness, and attack name... that's it!) only discards from the opponent's Active. Not saying it won't see some success in competitive play, but I'm trying to be cautious because people in the announcement thread are overhyping it (and just about everything else) badly.

The new Mewtwo looks like a strong counter against M Mewtwo.

[C][C] Psychic: 20+ damage. Does 20 more damage for each Energy attached to your opponent’s Active Pokemon.

This means that if the opposing M Mewtwo has 4 energy on it then your 1-Prize Mewtwo can OHKO it with a Fighting Fury Belt and weakness. I think this may be a one of in any deck that plays DCE just so you can run through your opponents M Mewtwos. Also it wouldn't be too bad against Yveltal EX.

In fact, the hype is why I am glad someone disagreed with me and stressed the new Mewtwo does have some use due to its "Psychic" attack (not Barrier). It is a generic answer to anything Energy heavy and/or Psychic Weak (preferably both). Might be okay for smaller things too as long as they aren't too Energy light, when it is just easier to trade single Prize Pokémon for single Prize Pokémon. Still most of the time it ain't that impressive; you drop a DCE and your opponent has two Energy attached... that's just 60 damage. Not bad looking at it on paper, but we'll have to see how that kind of damage output on those kind of stats actually play out.

 

[PMJ]

Is Mewtwo EVO worth using over something like Lugia-EX, who can hit harder, live longer, and remove stadiums?

 

[ambo]

Is Mewtwo EVO worth using over something like Lugia-EX, who can hit harder, live longer, and remove stadiums?

Well the reason Mewtwo will be good is because of its typing and the fact that it has weakness on Mega Mewtwo. So Mewtwo is just a small tech to counter Mega Mewtwo.