Based on how close together our posts are, I'm pretty sure he means yours.
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Standard Greninja BREAK (BKT-BUS)
- Thread starter jessalakasam
- Start date
Didn't look at how close the time between both posts were, I'm pretty happy that our list is working
Looks like a great deck list except maybe one minor change. I definitely believe 4 Guzma is going a bit overboard. Post-rotation Greninja decks will most likely run 3, some may even run 2 if they lack space. Honestly, unless I'm forgetting any important trainers, I would replace it with either a 4th Froakie or 4th Greninja BREAK. Other than that looks like a pretty solid deck list. Also, I couldn't agree more that Giratina Promo provides little threat in the upcoming format.
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"Also where are your Rescue Stretchers? I find this card to be incredibly valuable, especially if you have to discard Pokémon early with draw support like Sycamore. My post-rotation deckruns 2 Rescue Stretchers, but I can understand you running 1 if you have a tight list."
It's between "3x Evosoda" and "1x Super Rod", where it says "2x Rescue Stretcher".
Time will tell on Giratina. The only target for it in the upcoming Standard is this deck, which just doesn't seem like enough of a threat to warrant forcing slots.
Think about how many Vespiquen decks had to be out there before Oricorio started being played. Even after this card became a logical inclusion, only 2 of the top 8 NAIC decks included it, and Vespiquen was at that point widely seen as BDIF.
Greninja hasn't earned that...at least not yet. I think people are going to be more dialed in on whatever deck ends up being dominant at Worlds.
You may be right about Guzma. I wouldn't grab a 4th Froakie, but a 4th Break or maybe a 4th Evosoda or Max Potion is the right call.
It's between "3x Evosoda" and "1x Super Rod", where it says "2x Rescue Stretcher".
Time will tell on Giratina. The only target for it in the upcoming Standard is this deck, which just doesn't seem like enough of a threat to warrant forcing slots.
Think about how many Vespiquen decks had to be out there before Oricorio started being played. Even after this card became a logical inclusion, only 2 of the top 8 NAIC decks included it, and Vespiquen was at that point widely seen as BDIF.
Greninja hasn't earned that...at least not yet. I think people are going to be more dialed in on whatever deck ends up being dominant at Worlds.
You may be right about Guzma. I wouldn't grab a 4th Froakie, but a 4th Break or maybe a 4th Evosoda or Max Potion is the right call.
I like to be prepared for the worst, if my opponent runs Giratina, Muk helps me out, if they don't Muk could still shut off things like Wonder Tag, Steam Up, and more that I can't think of off the top of my head
These are stronger arguments, though I still don't agree with Tapu Lele, and I don't like doing it at the cost of the deck's engine.
What's wrong with Lele? It boosts consistency, and if you're worried about it costing me 2 prizes wait till SHL so you can replace it with Marshadow
Both cards are things you can open with that are either not Froakie or do not get you to Froakie. It is entirely possible that you can go a number of turns without being able to set up with this decklist.
Traditional Talonflame builds or 4 Froakie (no other basics) builds will always start dropping straight into building into Greninja Break. This, combined with never giving up more than 1 prize at a time, is what allows this deck to progress to dropping multiple GWSs each turn.
This list has a plethora of ways to launch that do nothing to make that happen.
I may be wrong; my preference is always going to be for consistency, however.
Traditional Talonflame builds or 4 Froakie (no other basics) builds will always start dropping straight into building into Greninja Break. This, combined with never giving up more than 1 prize at a time, is what allows this deck to progress to dropping multiple GWSs each turn.
This list has a plethora of ways to launch that do nothing to make that happen.
I may be wrong; my preference is always going to be for consistency, however.
When I play Greninja I almost never use Aero Blitz, as I always have the Frogadier T2, also, how is it more consistent then Lele when half the time you don't even get to Blitz, and it could mess your top-decks up terribly (as 3-5 [3-4 Flames + BREAK, if you use it] cards are dead cards
I haven't been able to test to its max potential as I get Lysander stalled since PTCGO doesn't have Ya Boi Yet
So far this page has given me some great ideas! I just got back from my "hiatus", so my Greninja ideas may be bit off. Ive always preferred Talonflame over any other basics. As for Giratina I (low-key) think that people would most likely only play one, and only for a couple of 2-1 Tier decks, (again, this may be a little off), it should be relatively easy to Guzma it out and KO it with Talonflame/Greninja. Ive yet to try out a Talonflame BREAK build, but it seems pretty cool to me. All in all I think @Chalupacabra 's deck is most similar what I'm going to use for the next rotation. Along his lines, I think that any other "subset" of a Greninja deck greatly hinders its playability and slows down an already ( ) slow deck.
) slow deck. 
Hey guys, little opinion here, run your Greninja BREAK deck with 4 Alolan Vulpix, 2 Alolan Ninetales GX and 2 Alolan Ninetales. I'm quite certain you wont be dissapointed and I also think it's where the future of this deck lies because Alolan Vulpix is both a wall and allows you to time to set up the long evolution line of Greninja BREAK.
It basically leads you to 3 routes:
A. Use Alolan Vulpix to purely search out for your Greninja line if you allready have pieces for it.
B. Use Alolan Vulpix to search out Alolan Ninetales to stall out agains fast oppossing GX/EX decks that come out swinging.
C. Use Alolan Ninetales GX to finish of things with Ice Blade/Blizzard Edge or use Ice Path GX to gain time again.
From my perspective all Greninja BREAK needs is some time and to me this line offers it like no other whilst being perfectly in line with any Water deck.
Do I think Alolan Vulpix is better for this deck as Talonflame? YES. As you do not have to spend energy on Talonflame and even if Alolan Ninetales does not show up in the opening hand you still have a purpose for it during the later stages of the game.
Cheers,
It basically leads you to 3 routes:
A. Use Alolan Vulpix to purely search out for your Greninja line if you allready have pieces for it.
B. Use Alolan Vulpix to search out Alolan Ninetales to stall out agains fast oppossing GX/EX decks that come out swinging.
C. Use Alolan Ninetales GX to finish of things with Ice Blade/Blizzard Edge or use Ice Path GX to gain time again.
From my perspective all Greninja BREAK needs is some time and to me this line offers it like no other whilst being perfectly in line with any Water deck.
Do I think Alolan Vulpix is better for this deck as Talonflame? YES. As you do not have to spend energy on Talonflame and even if Alolan Ninetales does not show up in the opening hand you still have a purpose for it during the later stages of the game.
Cheers,
Yeah I came across one of those Ninetales Greninja hybrids the other night. It walloped me because I was running Typhlosion, but even still I think it might help make Greninja even better. I'm not 100% sold though and would have to do some testing. I played some with the Starmie / Octillery build recently and am still of the opinion that the pure TF Greninja build is still the best, but this could dissuade me.
Certainly give it a try. All I can say is that A. Vulpix is the type of Pokemon that can technically be ran in any deck but if your a Water deck all the more advantage is given to you for the simple reason that it's also very easy to include Ninetales on top of it. I think Octillery as a tech card remains great, so does Starmie but the prime advantage gained from A. Vulpix is that it is a great Pokemon to open up with and next to searching cards also has a great evolution line, both GX and non-GX are relevant. This is really rare in most Pokemon tcg formats.
I think that the pure TF Greninja build can open up stronger but cannot do this as consistent as the Alolan Vulpix variant.
Hey guys, little opinion here, run your Greninja BREAK deck with 4 Alolan Vulpix, 2 Alolan Ninetales GX and 2 Alolan Ninetales. I'm quite certain you wont be dissapointed and I also think it's where the future of this deck lies because Alolan Vulpix is both a wall and allows you to time to set up the long evolution line of Greninja BREAK.
It basically leads you to 3 routes:
A. Use Alolan Vulpix to purely search out for your Greninja line if you allready have pieces for it.
B. Use Alolan Vulpix to search out Alolan Ninetales to stall out agains fast oppossing GX/EX decks that come out swinging.
C. Use Alolan Ninetales GX to finish of things with Ice Blade/Blizzard Edge or use Ice Path GX to gain time again.
From my perspective all Greninja BREAK needs is some time and to me this line offers it like no other whilst being perfectly in line with any Water deck.
Do I think Alolan Vulpix is better for this deck as Talonflame? YES. As you do not have to spend energy on Talonflame and even if Alolan Ninetales does not show up in the opening hand you still have a purpose for it during the later stages of the game.
Cheers,
After all my testing of any non-frog related pokemon in Greninja (which isn't to much just Octillery and some other small water types), I'm still convinced Talonflame is the best option. I recently watched Derium's Competitive Pokemon's Gardevoir GX deck build, and he proved a pretty good point on why NOT to play Alolan Vulpix in this new Meta. His statement was that because of the loss of VS Seeker N will most likely become a common 4-of making anything which leaves you with a card in hand (specifically the pokemon you took from beacon) is left helpless and ready to go back in your deck which becomes a waste of attack in the long run. I just heard of this but it has now influenced me in not playing Alolan Vulpix. As for Alolan Ninetails I think that just the 1 Retreat Cost on its own makes it harder to get a 1-2 (maybe 3) switch with your Greninja Breaks and still able to attach an energy. (though personally a better choice than Alolan Ninetails GX IMO). Now for Alolan Ninetails GX? I think it takes away the point of a 6-prize game in the first place. Not trying to say your idea is way off or anything, but Greninja IMO is supposed to be focused on the mass shuriken flinging frog it is!
Wolfos, I also watched that video, and I sort of agree and sort of don't. I agree that if they can Lele after you Beacon, then, yes, it won't stick, but it's not 100% given as he mentioned. The opponent might want to Lele for Fan Club or might not even be able to access Lele. Also, it's not like people are playing zero or one N right now; many decks are already carrying four. And with the loss of VS seeker, it's not like they can just pull it back out of the discard if they Ultra Ball it away. Believe me, I took Sylveon GX to NAIC. I got N'd A LOT! I am so looking forward to the new meta when I will NOT get N'd nearly as often as I get N'd today. In his context, however, Diancie is clearly the better play for Gardevoir. I'm just always wary of when someone is talking Theorymon and says that something is 100% guaranteed.
But then again I went 4-5 at Indy and Andrew is playing three weekends from now.
But then again I went 4-5 at Indy and Andrew is playing three weekends from now.
First time I have heard anyone propose this, have honestly never seen it been played before in PTCGO either. That being said, I am definitely open to the inclusion of Alolan Vulpix and Baby Alolan Ninetales into Greninja builds. But, adding a Ninetales-GX strikes me as a bad idea due to a couple reasons:Hey guys, little opinion here, run your Greninja BREAK deck with 4 Alolan Vulpix, 2 Alolan Ninetales GX and 2 Alolan Ninetales. I'm quite certain you wont be dissapointed and I also think it's where the future of this deck lies because Alolan Vulpix is both a wall and allows you to time to set up the long evolution line of Greninja BREAK.
It basically leads you to 3 routes:
A. Use Alolan Vulpix to purely search out for your Greninja line if you allready have pieces for it.
B. Use Alolan Vulpix to search out Alolan Ninetales to stall out agains fast oppossing GX/EX decks that come out swinging.
C. Use Alolan Ninetales GX to finish of things with Ice Blade/Blizzard Edge or use Ice Path GX to gain time again.
From my perspective all Greninja BREAK needs is some time and to me this line offers it like no other whilst being perfectly in line with any Water deck.
Do I think Alolan Vulpix is better for this deck as Talonflame? YES. As you do not have to spend energy on Talonflame and even if Alolan Ninetales does not show up in the opening hand you still have a purpose for it during the later stages of the game.
Cheers,
- For starters, Greninja prides itself on using one energy attacks, so attaching even two energies to attack disrupts the strategy, never mind three. The attacks Blizzard Edge and Ice Path GX simply require too much energy to use, so it doesn't work for a deck that only runs ten in total. Now I'm not saying there is no chance of success, but in my opinion to keep consistency which is something Greninja needs, stick to one energy attacks.
- Additionally, Alolan Ninetales-GX is a GX Pokemon which may seem like a good addition to a deck that doesn't utilize the new system, but there is one big flaw. One of Greninja's strongest points moving forward into the next rotation is that Choice Band is useless against Greninja because it normally doesn't run any GX or EX Pokemon. Therefore, when almost all decks run anywhere from one to three Choice Bands, you want to force dead cards into your opponent's hand at all times.
- Finally, Alolan Ninetales-GX doesn't have free retreat cost. I'm fully aware this is something you can't avoid, and Alolan Vulpix also suffers from not having free retreat cost, but it isn't something you can ignore. Giant Water Shuriken already discards energies, so losing them on retreating is always painful, especially for a deck like this.
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By no means I'm I trying to say that I have better deck than everyone else. (I think I forgot to put IMO on my last post) You obviously have more tournament experience, so with whatever works for you, most likely is better than mine for that reason. I just kinda put together cards I've seen and heard of and try to put together the best deck. (for my preferences)