Ruling Flailing Gyarados
- Thread starter JMcCloud
- Start date
As the same with Darkness energies and Pluspowers, you can't add to something with 0 base power.
So why doens't Pluspower do damage when I attack with something like Call for Family?
It does say "more", which needs something there to begin with.
It does say "more", which needs something there to begin with.
Ok, let's review the math first.
Ok, I know what you mean. However:
0X0= 0
Ok, so, we know that 0 x 0 = 0. Right? But, what's 0 + 30? Its 30. See? The attack does damage. It does 0 damage. SO, that means that the 30 will still apply. Need proof?
Ok, I know what you mean. However:
0X0= 0
Ok, so, we know that 0 x 0 = 0. Right? But, what's 0 + 30? Its 30. See? The attack does damage. It does 0 damage. SO, that means that the 30 will still apply. Need proof?
Pokemon TCG.com said:
An answer doesn't help... you could've written that. And I dont' even know if that website exists... Find somebody like Mewstor or Abhorsen to settle this...
Yep it should do 30
Ak was right
0x0=0+30=30
Ak was right
0x0=0+30=30
So why can't we Darkness spam attacks with no damage to do heavy damage? Or Pluspower?
Can you prove that you do extra damage? If the base damage is 0, I would assume you can't do damage. For Cacturne, I would assusme that only if you flip heads would you do any extra damage. If there's no damage to start with, you can't add to it.
Well, I obviously can't PROVE it to you here, but I'll get someone like C-M or Aborhosen like you said to help us out. (Do I just PM them, or what?)
The base damage is a number. 0 is a number. Can you ADD a number to 0? Yes, yes you can.
The base damage is a number. 0 is a number. Can you ADD a number to 0? Yes, yes you can.
-_- I attack for 0 damage plus 4 dark, plus 4 Plus power plus 1 SC = 90 damage = GG. Not quite. In the world of Pokemon, you can NOT add to something that is nothing. Otherwise, you can say any attack does 0 damage. And if you have NO damage counters, the attack does NO damage. Not if you have 0 damage counters.
An attack must have a base damage of 10+ in order for damage to be added. I've heard many a judge say it, and I know it to be a fact. And LT is more respectalbe then the site you quoted. I'd trust his descion as much as a world's judge. The base damage is nothing, not 0. 0 base damage is impposible, though 0 damage isn't.
And -10 is a number too isn't it? And you can add to -10. But you can't do -10 damage, and can't have -10 base damage.
An attack must have a base damage of 10+ in order for damage to be added. I've heard many a judge say it, and I know it to be a fact. And LT is more respectalbe then the site you quoted. I'd trust his descion as much as a world's judge. The base damage is nothing, not 0. 0 base damage is impposible, though 0 damage isn't.
And -10 is a number too isn't it? And you can add to -10. But you can't do -10 damage, and can't have -10 base damage.
Not to be rude or anything, but I actually played the Gyrados at 2 pre-releases. When I asked the judge what would happen if I used flail and I didn't have any danage on me, he said excatly what I said.
No dis-respect to MOT6K or Lt.H at all. They are skilled enough to have their opinions thought as worlds judges. I'm just saying what I heard at tournaments.
No dis-respect to MOT6K or Lt.H at all. They are skilled enough to have their opinions thought as worlds judges. I'm just saying what I heard at tournaments.
Another problem that comes up with questions. Different judges and different places have different rulings. The official ruling is for fossils to be playable at set-up, but in my area you can't. Judges are weird like that -.- But the official ruling for the card, or any card that would do a 0 base damage attack (impposible) is that you can't add damage. Still, check with a local judge for the ruling. But yeah, hear-say makes this entire forum a nightmare.
Gotta love my senerio with a holons castform though
Draw 5 cards an do 90 = PWNsome cloud Or with Raichu's First attack.
Gotta love my senerio with a holons castform though
Draw 5 cards an do 90 = PWNsome cloud Or with Raichu's First attack.
This can't be right. Call for Family, Budew's energyless attack and all other attacks like that obviously were designed to SUPPORT and not to DAMAGE. Therefore it would be idiotic to be able to do damage with Call for Family, only because you got a Pluspower.
Also, I think I found proof, even tho it's not really irrefutable. The DP1 Plus power is the most recent buff card released, correct? That makes me think they actually tried to make the text more understandable, like they did with some other cards a few times already.
Anywayz, notice how it says 10 MORE damage. The word MORE makes me think that they are trying to say that you must have had SOME damage to start with. So this obviously wouldn't work for Plus power. If this is true, then the same applies for Special Darkness, Gatr d and all buffs.
Also, I think I found proof, even tho it's not really irrefutable. The DP1 Plus power is the most recent buff card released, correct? That makes me think they actually tried to make the text more understandable, like they did with some other cards a few times already.
Anywayz, notice how it says 10 MORE damage. The word MORE makes me think that they are trying to say that you must have had SOME damage to start with. So this obviously wouldn't work for Plus power. If this is true, then the same applies for Special Darkness, Gatr d and all buffs.
And here I was hoping to get a quick answer...
The problem I see is that Flail in fact does have a base damage, which we can describe as ? in this case. It has the potentional to do damage later on. Moves like Call for Family don't have that. As such, I THINK it would apply to Gyarados here that he DOES do 30.
I can't however be certain, hence why I asked.
The problem I see is that Flail in fact does have a base damage, which we can describe as ? in this case. It has the potentional to do damage later on. Moves like Call for Family don't have that. As such, I THINK it would apply to Gyarados here that he DOES do 30.
I can't however be certain, hence why I asked.
If it really has to be that way, then we must ask ourselves: does it really matter whether a card says nothing about damage at all or "a base damage of 0" ?
To me, those 2 statements mean exactly the same. In most languages, especially but not limited to programming languages, the number zero is a way to express that there is nothing of a certain object, be it damage or distance to the moon, in both cases this mistake can cost you your life (but probably won't).
To me, those 2 statements mean exactly the same. In most languages, especially but not limited to programming languages, the number zero is a way to express that there is nothing of a certain object, be it damage or distance to the moon, in both cases this mistake can cost you your life (but probably won't).
So you need clearing this up? Here comes.
If a pokemons attack does 0 damage (like Call for Family) and has Plus Power attached to it, the attack still does only 0 damage.
Why? Because it says on the card "does 10 more damage". If there in nothing to add to, you can't add it. In pokemon, 0+10=0. If there would be something to add to, like in for example Tackle 10, you do 10+10=20. This is writen in the pokemon TCG core rules.
Here is a part of Darkness energys ruling for example...
Q. The wording on Darkness Energy from the EX:Ruby/Sapphire expansion says, "if the Pokémon Darkness Energy is attached to attacks, the attack does 10 more damage to the Active Pokémon" Does this mean that you get to add +10 even if an attack does no damage at all to the Defending Pokémon (i.e. EX:Sandstorm Murkrow's "Surprise" attack)?
A. No, it still applies only if there was initial damage to add to. So in other words, you still have to do some damage in order to have "10 more" done. (Sep 18, 2003 PUI Rules Team)
EDIT: And if that's not enough for you, I went through the trouble to find an official PUI rulings team answer for you.
http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58914
If a pokemons attack does 0 damage (like Call for Family) and has Plus Power attached to it, the attack still does only 0 damage.
Why? Because it says on the card "does 10 more damage". If there in nothing to add to, you can't add it. In pokemon, 0+10=0. If there would be something to add to, like in for example Tackle 10, you do 10+10=20. This is writen in the pokemon TCG core rules.
Here is a part of Darkness energys ruling for example...
Q. The wording on Darkness Energy from the EX:Ruby/Sapphire expansion says, "if the Pokémon Darkness Energy is attached to attacks, the attack does 10 more damage to the Active Pokémon" Does this mean that you get to add +10 even if an attack does no damage at all to the Defending Pokémon (i.e. EX:Sandstorm Murkrow's "Surprise" attack)?
A. No, it still applies only if there was initial damage to add to. So in other words, you still have to do some damage in order to have "10 more" done. (Sep 18, 2003 PUI Rules Team)
EDIT: And if that's not enough for you, I went through the trouble to find an official PUI rulings team answer for you.
http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58914