ORAS Emerald Dilemma

Mitja

Mitja

veteran smartass
Member
With Mega Rayquazas reveal, and a new bit of "myth" on the official site:

It was a primal age, early in the world's history... The natural world was overflowing with energy. That energy granted Groudon and Kyogre an overwhelming power. Seeking ever more of that energy for themselves, the two clashed again and again, and their battles cast the people and Pokémon of Hoenn into great danger. Brimming with the overwhelming power granted by the energy of nature, this transformation was named by later people "Primal Reversion." And the people called their tormentors Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre.

One Pokémon looked down upon this battle from the sky above. The Pokémon that dances in the heavens: Rayquaza. Rayquaza is venerated by the people of Hoenn as their protector and savior. When Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre had battled for 20 dawns and 20 nights, the world began to lose its natural balance and tilt toward destruction. The people, unable to endure any more, cried out to their mighty savior Rayquaza before a great stone that shone with rainbow brilliance. And a change came upon Rayquaza, weaving in the sky above Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Suffused in brilliant light, its body began to transform visibly. And then...


Delta Emerald is clearly out the window now, as they would otherwise have kept both Rayquazas Mega a secret, and pretend Emerald never happened for the whole ORAS timeframe.

So this thread is about discussing how they might be approaching the issue about the fact that RS-plot and E-plot aren't compatible.



Here is my take on it.

The worst case scenario in my view is this:
---RS-plot
-only change: mascot goes primal now (catch or beat)
---E4
-Rayquaza just sits at Sky tower like it did.
-it's mega is unlocked in a short uninspired side-quest (think taking ship to island with mega stone)


The best case scenario:
----RS-plot
-but in OR Magma/Groudon is in Mt.Chimney rather than Seafloor Cavern (but somehow makes it to the sea above Seafloorcavern in front of Sootopolis for the climax anyway?)
-the Primal Form prevents capture, making it a boss-battle like Kyurems in BW2
-retreats after defeat
----E4
-side-quest: opposite villainous team awakens opposite mascot.
-main mascot returns
-Emerald climax with an improved Rayquaza quest involving unlocking of it's mega evolution
-after that, both mascots found in roaming caves


or something in between?

Personally I just hope they actually thought this through and do Emerald as much justice as RS with these remakes.
And I'm getting OR, where I REALLY don't wanna see Team Magma use a Sharpedo-submarine in Lilycoves seaside HQ to drive to Seafloorcavern, it's just stupid, when there is Mt. Chimney in the region.
That was a huge flaw in Ruby, but they had Emerald to fix it, which is impossible now if they wanna keep the mirrored villains plot from RS.


Also for reference
the following is done by the versions villains, at some points the other show up to oppose them.
-grunt in petalburg woods
-2 grunts in whismur-tunnel
-museum takeover
-getting the meteor in meteorfalls
-Mt chimney, meteor used to control volcano
-weather institute takeover
-mt pyre, boss steals wrong orb
-submarine is stolen
-lilycove seaside HQ
-seafloor cavern, waking the mascot
-extreme weather over sootopolis
-confront mascot in origin cave

emerald has all of these, but spread out to appropriate teams, while adding additional fitting ones to the list (in particular for Magma)
-grunt in petalburg woods
-2 grunts in whismur-tunnel
-museum takeover
-getting the meteor in meteorfalls
-Mt chimney, meteor used to control volcano
-weather institute takeover
-mt pyre, both bosses steal an orb
-submarine is stolen
-lilycove seaside HQ
-space institue takeover ADDED
-mt.chimney HQ, waking the mascot ADDED
-seafloor cavern, waking the mascot
-extreme weather over sootopolis
-find rayquaza to stop the showdown

the trailers and footage make it seem like ORAS follows the mirrored RS Aqua/Mama-arc, which probably means none of Emeralds adjustments in their plot (like space center, and an interior of Mt.Chimney)
 
I was thinking something like this:

After all the mascot is the important Pokemon that the game should focus about. Since Rayquaza is not the mascot I can't see any situation were you can catch him in the story line because you will have to catch it before the great battle between Kyogre and Groudon( which will make him the center of the game instead of the mascot)or after this battle right before the elite four..(better just put it in post game)

The thing is that Mega evolution requires Mega ring and a trainer. That is another reason I have a hard time believing that you will be able to catch Rayquaza in order to stop the fight between Kyogre and Groudon: it will be weird to get both Rayquaza and Kyogre/Groudon before elite four and even more weird to get Rayquaza and only to get the mascot post game.

That is why I think you will catch the mascot first in story with Primal and everything. Rayquaza can appear during the battle and after the elite four you will be able to catch him with his mega stone

Now the thing is.. they said that this is not a regular Mega evolution so.. what if Rayquaza doesn't need a trainer and Mega ring in order to evolve? It fits so great to the story. If Rayquaza will appear before Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon without Mega evolving it will be just stupid.. and as I said I don't think we will be able to catch it before the battle nor can the Primal forms will be in post game.
 
I'm thinking it's going to be closer to the worst case scenario, it's pretty clear that they intend to follow the RS plot rather faithfully, but they'll probably give Rayquaza some kind of attention. I think it's going to be more a post game story arc than an inclusion in the main storyline though.

But yeah, I don't think Emerald's plot is going to be integrated into the main game, the trailers imply that you explore the same areas between versions, Magma is probably going to use Lilycove Hideout and Seafloor Cavern.
 
I've been reading up on Emerald to get some kind of idea of how emerald differs. I think we will get the classic RS story as much as possible with primal forms. No Rayquaza until post game, Magma having that awkward base location. Probably a few extra interactions with Stevan and rivals, and a new mini sub plot for Mauville city and its changes (as well as Lisia and Aarune exposition. Lisia's will probably be much less exciting than Aarunes) we will probably have some new/improved NPC tall to better spread the new/improved lore.

I think from Emerald, we will get the battle frontier, the return of move tutors (though probably not the same ones in emerald), rematch teams for gym leaders, more of the feature changes I guess. Probably a post game plot that mentions/involves Juan and a new Rayquaza storline.
 
I'm also thinking of a post-game side-quest for Rayquaza... which is lame, but what can we do?
The best case scenario is exactly how I imagined it should be... I'm sick of version-exclusive mascots... That's why I like GS/HGSS and prefer the 3rd versions like Emerald and Platinum... Emerald was so much better than RS...
 
I'd honestly hope for the 2nd scenario, mainly because they already put a lot of attention to Rayquaza to begin with, especially with the whole story that was given to Rayquaza. If he were just a post game sidequest, I don't think they would gone as far to include Rayquaza and introduce its Mega after one has watched a 7 hour long livestream to begin with. Instead they would have kept quiet about the whole reveal and let the people go and discover it once the game had landed in their hands.

In fact, if Rayquaza were just a post-game sidequest like in the original Ruby and Sapphire, one should know that Rayquaza was just there, with no story, no myth, no nothing. It was just there. In the remakes he's getting a lot of exposure. He's not stopping one of the main mascots, he's stopping both. This never happened in the original Ruby and Sapphire, as the story there, only went about Kyogre (Sapphire) or Groudon (Ruby)

One thing that should be remembered is that in the original Ruby and Sapphire, there was never any confrontation between Kyogre and Groudon to begin with. it was just about the respective Legendary terrorizing the natural order of things with their respective Rain or Sunlight powers and once calmed down/or captured, the story was pretty much over at that point. Rayquaza as result, was just a afterthought. If ORAS is a straight up remake of those two games, then the entire story with Rayquaza makes no damn sense to be added in...although players never play the games about the said story.

More, they're hyping up Rayquaza a lot:

1. They're giving a story about Rayquaza being heavily connected to Mega Evolution.
2. They're claiming he Mega-Evolves differently than the usual Mega Pokémon.
3. They're going as far to introduce a new Ability and a new Flying-Type Move.
4. They are reusing the "Rayquaza comes down to stop Kyogre AND Groudon"

Point made: Rayquaza isn't coming into the story just to stop one of them....unless both appear, but the opposite Legendary vanishes forever for some reason.

More, here is a in-game picture somewhere where the player has to face both Matt (of Aqua) and Tabitha (of Magma):

demo12.jpg


If the teams were version exclusive and you only fight one team per version as how the original games dictated, fighting both admins would be weird, especially since one team is supposed to help you in the game. With that in mind, its pretty clear that ORAS won't be straight up remakes. In the end, of course, knowing GF, its likely they will go on the predictable route and go with the first scenario, even though its stupid beyond belief.

Anyways, that is my take on things. I hope on the second scenario mostly, but likely it will end up being the 1st scenario despite how silly it sounds.
 
G-Panthera said:
More, here is a in-game picture somewhere where the player has to face both Matt (of Aqua) and Tabitha (of Magma):

demo12.jpg
Click to expand...

That image is taken from the demo (meaning its most likely not gonna be relevant in the actual game at all)
 
His Goominess said:
G-Panthera said:
More, here is a in-game picture somewhere where the player has to face both Matt (of Aqua) and Tabitha (of Magma):

demo12.jpg
Click to expand...

That image is taken from the demo (meaning its most likely not gonna be relevant in the actual game at all)
Click to expand...

I see. Well then, I guess all will point to the 1st scenario as listed in the OP.
 
one thing I've noticed on Mega Rayquaza's ORAS page: it has its category (species) as unknown. This seems odd, as Megas keep the species name as their vanilla counterparts, and Vanillaquaza's section it shows its species.
Theres literally no point to this, as it takes about half a minute to find out Rayquaza's species and the fact that Megas keep the same species name.

Considering how Mega Rayquaza is said to have a different way of Mega Evolution... could this have some relevance?

of course, I'm reading too much into it and its nothing important at all...
 
G-Panthera said:
Point made: Rayquaza isn't coming into the story just to stop one of them....unless both appear, but the opposite Legendary vanishes forever for some reason.
Click to expand...

Assuming a scenario where the opposite mascot shows up, there is no way it would not be catchable as a consequence.

It's hard to prove why that's the case (other than the fact it hasn't happened before), I just don't feel they would every do that. Actually have a legendary show up in front of you and then disappear.

Reminds me of how N gets the opposite mascot for the BW1 story and then you can catch even that one in BW2 after the story is finished...
 
To be honest, I think they're just going to sweep it under the rug and hope either nobody notices, or nobody cares enough to call them on it. Let's be honest, strong storylines and continuity are not really the strong suits of the Pokemon franchise.
 
Aerodactyl said:
I've been reading up on Emerald to get some kind of idea of how emerald differs. I think we will get the classic RS story as much as possible with primal forms. No Rayquaza until post game, Magma having that awkward base location. Probably a few extra interactions with Stevan and rivals, and a new mini sub plot for Mauville city and its changes (as well as Lisia and Aarune exposition. Lisia's will probably be much less exciting than Aarunes) we will probably have some new/improved NPC tall to better spread the new/improved lore.

I think from Emerald, we will get the battle frontier, the return of move tutors (though probably not the same ones in emerald), rematch teams for gym leaders, more of the feature changes I guess. Probably a post game plot that mentions/involves Juan and a new Rayquaza storline.
Click to expand...

I don't think they'll need new NPC. The Mt. Pyre old couple suits just fine and now it seems that the orbs might actual be used in devolving Groundon and Kyogre and M.evolving Rayquaza.
 
Mitja said:
G-Panthera said:
Point made: Rayquaza isn't coming into the story just to stop one of them....unless both appear, but the opposite Legendary vanishes forever for some reason.
Click to expand...

Assuming a scenario where the opposite mascot shows up, there is no way it would not be catchable as a consequence.

It's hard to prove why that's the case (other than the fact it hasn't happened before), I just don't feel they would every do that. Actually have a legendary show up in front of you and then disappear.

Reminds me of how N gets the opposite mascot for the BW1 story and then you can catch even that one in BW2 after the story is finished...
Click to expand...

GF have done weirder stuff before, so that is why I assume that "the two legendaries appear, but one vanishes forever" could happen. I agree with you that this idea is downright redundant. I myself, really hope on your second scenario, mainly because of Rayquaza's involvement and the in-game picture (even if its from a demo) where the player faces both admins of both villain teams, which is something that never happened in either Ruby or Sapphire seperately.

The best thing we can hope for, is that they go with a GS-like approach, and/or that the Ruby and Sapphire remakes atleast get a lot of elements from the Emerald version, or actually wait until the games are released fully and coverage is given full exposure. Right now, worrying about this, isn't going to help a lot until we know a lot more - like the postgame of the remakes and such. More, the only reason there are still two versions, is likely reversed for exclusive Pokémon like Zangoose and Seviper, but that is just a wild guess on my part. That said, has it even been fully confirmed that Kyogre and Groudon can only be caught in their respective versions? If so, then your first scenario is far more likely than ever.
 
But if ORAS plays out in the proposed manner (being RS but going E in the postgame anyway), then I can easily see them making DP remakes, merely giving the mascots their own interdimensional formes encountered in special realms, but featuring Giratinas Torn World as close as possible in the postgame.
The thing is, Giratina doesn't show up until the Torn world, while the build-up with the lake guardians is the same, so they could easily retcon Giratinas act as a postgame consequence of the main plot.
DP
-galactic business, lake guardians, red chain, spear pillar
-mascot summoned, catch/defeat, end of plot
Pt
-galactic business, lake guardians, red chain, spear pillar
-mascot summoned, giratina shows up, torn world quest, catch/defeat, end of plot
rDrP
-galactic business, lake guardians, red chain, spear pillar
-mascot summoned, new version exclusive realm with quest and new forme, catch/defeat
(beat E4, postgame)
-growing spear pillar disturbance, giratina shows up, torn world quest, catch/defeat, end of plot
or who knows..
 
Let's face it, things are probably closer to the worst-case scenario. It's already rather obvious from that stream that ORAS resemble RS rather than Emerald, so they will really need some major stuff happening in order to cram in Rayquaza and the second team and explain their existence and purpose all of a sudden, when up until now you were certain there was only one psycho leader and one giant world destroyer to deal with. Some stupid or not really stupid side quest will lead to Rayquaza, and that's probably about it... which is sad, considering what they did with HGSS before. Emerald was so much better than RS... but I don't think its story will be added or revisited in ORAS.
 
Chaos Jackal said:
(...)... which is sad, considering what they did with HGSS before. Emerald was so much better than RS... but I don't think its story will be added or revisited in ORAS.
Click to expand...

I can't wait to get to Cove Lily Motel and know who is the guy responsible for these remakes. I will be very surprised if it's the same one who did HG/SS, which I doubt.
 
It's too difficult to have emeralds plot in ORAS, unfortunately. The charm of Ruby and Sapphire, especially befor emerald released, was having the different teams. It made the opposite versions about more than just available Pokemon. To put emeralds plot in would completely take that away... And I think that would actually be really sad.

That being said, I think we will get elements of emerald more essential to actual game play and features than plot. I think we will get the battle frontier. I think we will also get locations like mirage tower (probably not trainer hill though, it would be really redundant and unnecessary with the frontier) and maybe the desert underpass. I think we will still be given gen 2 starters on completing the Dex (and if we are lucky, with Megas!)

We will have to wait and see how the Rayquaza plot unfolds. It will probably be post game, and because of that, shorter. But hopefully we will get to see some neat stuff too. Unfortunately, we can't get both event legendaries, but if we could, why would they bother with ruby and sapphire and just make emerald instead? A big part of gen three is the difference in plot between the games and it would be a sad thing to sacrafice. Pokemon as always been focused on connecting people, getting them to trade to complete pokedex and battle, etc.

It looks like we are already getting the updated gym leader teams from emerald, and we will hopefully get move tutors too. Unfortunately, a lot of emeralds updates are features that are now obsolete, like wirelessly accessing to the union room, berries having extra wfdecrs for happiness and the mystery gift feature. Alot of these are now main game features.
 
I think that when Rayquaza notices that either Kyogre or Groudon is rampaging, it will descend to investigate the problem. In doing this, it will prevent one from awakening the other and causing the chaos and destruction they did all of those centuries ago.
 
Genius715 said:
I think that when Rayquaza notices that either Kyogre or Groudon is rampaging, it will descend to investigate the problem. In doing this, it will prevent one from awakening the other and causing the chaos and destruction they did all of those centuries ago.
Click to expand...

This could be a good compromise if ORAS really follows the original games with minor Emerald add ons the said remakes already have. Even so, Rayquaza is only really known to come down when both Groudon and Kyogre are locked in battle. Either way, Its a reasonable solution and I could see it working. We just have to wait and see at this point.
 
Sounds like Mega Rayquaza might be able to stay mega evolution outside of battle. Key word might and it is also just a theory due to that legend.
 
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