Why are there no fighting, Steel, Or Dragon Eevee-lutions? I wonder if we will ever get them? Every other type as an eevee-lution and some types even have 2.
Pokemon Eevee-lutions
- Thread starter Ironman131
- Start date
People speculate that it has to do with the fact that types were originally sorted into Physical (rock, fighting, steel, bug, ect) and Special (ice, psychic, grass, fire, ect) typings in the video games. For whatever reason, all of the Special typings eventually ended up with Eeveelutions (except Dragon), but none of the Physical types.
Why this decision was made is anyone's guess
Why this decision was made is anyone's guess
Even so that has since changed. Most every type in the game now has at least one special move and one physical move. With that in mind they could easily make an Eeveelution for each type in the game. And I bet a lot of people would be okay with that.
It's kind of funny, when they revealed Sylveon I expected a dragon eeveelution to follow. It would follow in the same pattern as we had during gen 2 with Umbreon and Espeon. It didn't happen as we all know as of the moment. Technically I suppose that could change in X2/Y2 or Z, whatever they end up going with but we know the chances of that actually happening are almost non existent as the 'follow up' games have never released new Pokémon, just new formes for some of them with Zygarde in the lead for it this generation.
It's kind of funny, when they revealed Sylveon I expected a dragon eeveelution to follow. It would follow in the same pattern as we had during gen 2 with Umbreon and Espeon. It didn't happen as we all know as of the moment. Technically I suppose that could change in X2/Y2 or Z, whatever they end up going with but we know the chances of that actually happening are almost non existent as the 'follow up' games have never released new Pokémon, just new formes for some of them with Zygarde in the lead for it this generation.
I don't know why it is but I don't see a new Eeveelution being released by the next generation since it seems it is now skipping one generation after the last one revealed.
Let's be honest, a new Eevelution will always be a major expectation and surpirse for the fans, so GF won't spend that in a row! Espeon and Umbreon were the exception because GS were to be the last games.
Let's be honest, a new Eevelution will always be a major expectation and surpirse for the fans, so GF won't spend that in a row! Espeon and Umbreon were the exception because GS were to be the last games.
All patterns would indicate you're right. It would be generation eight before they might release a new Eeveelution. And as I said all patterns indicate our follow up game won't do anything more than a few new formes to Pokémon we already know about.
Of course, before Sylveon those eeveelutions were also released in at least pairs. A dragon would have been perfect to release with fairy, as was the case with grass and ice and psychic and dark before it and yet it didn't happen. That pattern was basically broken so as very unlikely as I too think it is, anything is possible.
Of course, before Sylveon those eeveelutions were also released in at least pairs. A dragon would have been perfect to release with fairy, as was the case with grass and ice and psychic and dark before it and yet it didn't happen. That pattern was basically broken so as very unlikely as I too think it is, anything is possible.
Pikachu6319 said:
Indeed, just like how B2/W2 also broke a pattern. Not only Dragon would match Sylveon but in a game with so few Pokémon, that Dragon-type Eeveelution would be welcomed, but then again, it can come in hand in a game with few Dragon-type Pokémon or only the usual Dragon family of three "levels", like Dragonite was.
The fact is that we now have 9 Eeveelutions (with Eevee itself included) with only 9 to go...Hum, a Normal type Eeveelution wouldn't be refused by me, on the contrary. More so that it could evolve into some cat like Pokémon like Meowth, Skitty, Glameow or Purrloin or, even better, the next dog-like Pokémon like Snubull and Lillipup.
Ironman131 said:
There aren't because they never went ridiculously crazy on spamming those and instead limited themselves to a small number and to types that are simple and have an obvious cliche-color-theme to use, which is what I sometimes refer to as "elemental" types.
They're already privileged from the rest of old pokemon for getting new evolutions as it is, what with Eevee being the only freaking pokemon out of all to have gotten a new evolution in gen 6 at all.
And no, no types have 2 eeveelutions (unless you mean in the TCG where Glaceon, an Ice type, is probably a Water-type card. But that's the TCGs problem, not the franchise itself. Aynwhere outside the TCG every eeveelution is of a unique type)
Tash said:
Yeah nah, that was more akin to coincidence. I never understood why people insisted they decided for some weird reason to limit themselves to special-types only..
It's more that they just used types that fit the eeveelution concept (colorful elemental energy based stuff) with the obvious choices simply having been been special back then. But since gen 4 the whole topic is completely irrelevant anyway as that distinction was gotten rid of. Not to mention that ALL Dark moves immediately changed to physical, which along with the concept of the mean type begs the question if they even gave it much thought in gen2 or just made Dark special because Steel was the clear choice for physical out of the two..
Leaf_Ranger said:
It's not like this has been a long run that we could look for patterns in, though.
And there simply is no pre-planned pattern from gamefreak either (it's not like they decided such a rule when they invented eevee or whatever..).
I mean, breaking it down, they started with 3 because they liked having 3 elements in general (and still do, starters, trios of legendaries, 3 variations of some moves etc.)
Then they "immediately" added 2 in gen2, because the idea behind them was to showcase the contrast of day and night. It wasn't an intentional choice to go for 2, it was because of the concept they started with to make them.
Then in gen3 they didn't do ANY evolutions for old pokemon, so of course a consequence would be that eeveelutions weren't even considered this time around.
And gen4 was all about evolving old pokemon in general, so they of course grabbed that and slapped some eeveelutions in there for fan-service (what with people going on about needing more types..). And here they just chose the most obvious eeveelution candidates that were left (Grass and Ice. pretty sure those 2 types were also the ones with the most fakemon versions before, heck I even made an Ice and a Grass fake eeveelution before any others). More than 2 would have just been overkill, so that's why they stuck with 2.
gen 5 just as gen 3 again wasn't about "do we make more or wait a generation?" because the whole point behind gen 5 was to start a new with absolutely 0 ties to the old, so here eeveelutions was never even going to be an option whatsoever. It has nothing to do with some sacred pattern they force upon themselves..
Come gen 6, they decided to have another eeveelution to promote the new type (having an actual reason is more akin to gen 2, rather than for the heck of making more eeveelutions as in gen 4). And it was just 1. If there was some pattern to this, it would be that they make less and less of them, that's the only halfway solid agrument you can draw from the eeveelutions history.
There is no pattern. They introduce more when it is appropriate (a gen that focuses on expanding old pokemon rather than fresh ones) and
a) they have very obvious cliche elemental types in mind (which Grass and Ice got covered)
b) they have some new type and/or evolution mechanic to show off with them
IMO pretty much all the other existing types are neither simple cliche elements appropriate for "eeveelution" as the simple concept it was meant to be, nor are they "a new type", so I wouldn't bet on more...if they do more at all.
Sylveon kind of feels like a "cherry on top"-eeveelution anyway, which is a cute way to finishing this off.
Last edited:
Tash said:
I think the reason this decision was made was that the concept behind the family was that of a creature gaining elemental powers as it was exposed to different things. In general, the special types (water, ice, fire, electric are the best examples) are seen as more of the elemental ones, whereas the physical ones (bug, rock, steel) are more major of changes, more akin to actual evolution than to the metamorphosis that is pokemon evolution. Whether the developers decided on special types or they just happened to be the ones that fit is up for speculation, but I would argue that this may be the reason dragon wasn't added; it's implies too much about the pokemon's physical characteristics rather than their elemental powers.
I think it's a shame that they haven't, myself. I think a full set of Eeveelutions would be awesome. Then again, I'm apparently one of the few people who was thrilled when they introduced all those cross-gen evolutions in Gen 4. There are so many junk pokemon that could use another evolution, and I don't mean Megas. Even if it doesn't make them VGC worthy, at least make them not outright terrible.
DrEspeon said:
I have to agree with Mitja's reasoning because it's what makes the most sense. And about what you said, Eevee's explanation for evolving is to adapt to different environment conditions so the elements don't seem to explain why we didn't get other Eeveelutions.
Ironman131 said:
About Fighting, Steel and perhaps Poison, I think those are the easiest to obtain in future games, as all it needs is a major city or some anient people to evolve Eevee into a Steel type; to obtain a Fighting type...well, it would have been reasonable to have it in Isshu or Kalos since both regions had wars in the past and for Poison, all we need is another Virbank city or Castelis's sewers. As for the Dragon, I would like it to have some backstory, perhaps related to a Kimono Girl that went abroad and evolved her Eevee into a Dragon-type.
Well sure they could do any eeveelution they'd feel okay doing any generation for whatever purpose.
But I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon.
And to be honest, I'd much rather see them making new interesting pokemon that evolve into several different ones.
Eeveelutions are kinda bland and this concept has more potential than that.
I'd like to see a humanoid poke which evolves into different ability-types.
Normal->Fighting
Normal->Psychic
Normal->Poison
Normal->Dark
Or taking it even further, instead of a "Normal" poke changing into different types, there could be pokemon that already have a main type but gain secondary types.
Imagine a small generic Dragon-type dinosaur, who would gain different kinds of armors
Dragon->Dragon/Poison
Dragon->Dragon/Ice
Dragon->Dragon/Steel
Or a magician-themed one who learns to control a specific element
Psychic->Psychic/Fire
Psychic->Psychic/Ice
Psychic->Psychic/Electric
these kind of examples is what Id love to see more instead of just new eeveelutions... they've done those enough, no need to make all of them just for the sake of it regardless if they even fit.
But I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon.
And to be honest, I'd much rather see them making new interesting pokemon that evolve into several different ones.
Eeveelutions are kinda bland and this concept has more potential than that.
I'd like to see a humanoid poke which evolves into different ability-types.
Normal->Fighting
Normal->Psychic
Normal->Poison
Normal->Dark
Or taking it even further, instead of a "Normal" poke changing into different types, there could be pokemon that already have a main type but gain secondary types.
Imagine a small generic Dragon-type dinosaur, who would gain different kinds of armors
Dragon->Dragon/Poison
Dragon->Dragon/Ice
Dragon->Dragon/Steel
Or a magician-themed one who learns to control a specific element
Psychic->Psychic/Fire
Psychic->Psychic/Ice
Psychic->Psychic/Electric
these kind of examples is what Id love to see more instead of just new eeveelutions... they've done those enough, no need to make all of them just for the sake of it regardless if they even fit.
While that is a good idea, I think it suffers from the same problem as an Eeveelution: the lack of something more. The concept is good but after that we would only get a dinousaur with different armour, unless it has a different evolution according to said armour, kind like Burmy and Wormadan but without only changing the cloak/armour. Same goes for the Magician.
Eeveelutions are capable of introducing some novelty and it also appeals to those that like cute Pokémon. Unfortunately, Eevee is usualy obtained well ahead into the story so I don't feel like training or using it but that can be changed.
All this said, I don't want GF to stop coming up with new Pokémon for the sake of an Eeveelution but I don't think that is even possible because some of the work is already done when it comes to make a certain type Eeveelution. It takes time like everything else, but the Eeveelution will almost certainly be quadrupedal, so the design already advances further and with that in mind, something that takes time to decide when creating entirely new Pokémon. Also, I'm not seeing GF spitting out more than two new Eevelutions just for the sake of clearing and covering all types in a row and in one game. Oh, one more thing, who's to say that the missing Eeveelutions aren't already designed and may just need final touches, a proper setting and the decision to pick the game to put them in?
Eeveelutions are capable of introducing some novelty and it also appeals to those that like cute Pokémon. Unfortunately, Eevee is usualy obtained well ahead into the story so I don't feel like training or using it but that can be changed.
All this said, I don't want GF to stop coming up with new Pokémon for the sake of an Eeveelution but I don't think that is even possible because some of the work is already done when it comes to make a certain type Eeveelution. It takes time like everything else, but the Eeveelution will almost certainly be quadrupedal, so the design already advances further and with that in mind, something that takes time to decide when creating entirely new Pokémon. Also, I'm not seeing GF spitting out more than two new Eevelutions just for the sake of clearing and covering all types in a row and in one game. Oh, one more thing, who's to say that the missing Eeveelutions aren't already designed and may just need final touches, a proper setting and the decision to pick the game to put them in?
It wouldn't surprise me at all if most, if not, all of the eeveelutions have been at least half done. If not more. It might just be a matter of time.
One might wonder how many Pokémon they have planned though. I mean gen 6 gave us the least amount of new Pokémon over at...I think it was 69. Does that mean they were trying to be conservative for this run or are they running out of ideas? It's up to a matter of interpretation there.
I wouldn't be too surprised either to see some more 'dinosaur' Pokémon coming out. There are plenty of species they could model Pokémon off of.
I have to say, I actually would prefer they avoid humanoid looking Pokémon if at all possible. I know we've had a few of course but the less the better.
One might wonder how many Pokémon they have planned though. I mean gen 6 gave us the least amount of new Pokémon over at...I think it was 69. Does that mean they were trying to be conservative for this run or are they running out of ideas? It's up to a matter of interpretation there.
I wouldn't be too surprised either to see some more 'dinosaur' Pokémon coming out. There are plenty of species they could model Pokémon off of.
I have to say, I actually would prefer they avoid humanoid looking Pokémon if at all possible. I know we've had a few of course but the less the better.
Pikachu6319 said:
Well, Jurassic Worl is coming, so GF may also come up with some easter egg for future dinossaur-like Pokémon!
Also, the Rock-type "Eeveelution" could be revived from a fossil!!
Hence the quotation marks.
Leaf_Ranger said:
But I didn't mean to say that I want a single Pokemon to be a permanent "replacement" for eeveelutions.
Rather, I want them to start using this concept with MORE pokemon instead of just Eevee.
There would sometimes be another eeveelution for Eevee... but sometimes a new pokemon would be introduced with potential for very distinct split evos... so that after 6 generations, you could point at ~5 examples of pokemon who evolve into a handful of different evolutions, rather tha being at gen 6 and we still have ONLY Eevee really fitting that category..it is an untapped potential IMO, and Eevee is only scratching the surface since its always just an Eevee with a new element.
Pikachu6319 said:
It was only 72... but that was after giving us 156 in the generation before it, the most we have EVER gotten.
And lets not forget that this time there was and still is a big focus on Megas because they were only just introduced. All of them are individual monster designs that have to be made, they are basically not any less work than a regular evolution (for example creating Mega Ampharos is a comparable task to creating Weavile). So with those included, the numbers reaches to around 100 for XY, and rises about 20 more for ORAS.. and will rise even further when XY-sequels show up in the near future.
(I imagine they will use Megas mostly as a way to add designs mid-gen in future generations. In other words, go back to ~100ish numbers for a new generation with no megas, and then add megas for the filler games etc..)
But even sticking with the hard numbers of species, 72 for gen V... if you make a graph:
Yeaaaah, so much for that.
Looks quite precise to the trendline ;D
Pikachu6319 said:
As for the "running out of ideas" part... that's been said since GSC times, and I have yet to see any indication of that.
They have so much left to base pokemon on, they won't be having a problem for thousands of monsters.
There is millions of species on this planet.. there is a lot of mythology, cultures and stories. And pokemon arent just restricted to animals and creatures, they can also be based off of cocnepts, cliches, steerotypes, personalities....heck I can imagine a pokemon based on a sleep disorder and nothing else.
And then of course all of these can be combined and mixed as much as desired.
I'm going on a tangent here as that wasn't your point...but it ties into the last sentences. Humanoid pokemon have been part of the franchise just as much as animal based ones. They're not some kind of sign of unoriginality... in fact it might be harder to make an interesting humanoid pokemon than simply turning an animal into one. ;D
Mitja said:
I didn't meant that that Pokémon would replace Eeveelutions, just that if done wrongly and in a simple way, it would only be a Dinosaur/Magician with different armour or hats. I support the idea of introducing more Pokémon with branched evolutions &/or forms but if they do more that change the type, colours and some attacks. Eeveelutions and Burmy seems kind like a simplistic idea that ends up there! Why can't Eeveelutions evolve once more and gain a more unique look? That Dinosaur and Magician can't only be a slight upgrade to Genesect's disks. I think that the armor/spell can give those Pokémon different types and perhaps make them change forms but also having different evolutions that don't end up being the same overall model with few changes, but something like having Remoraid evolving into Octillery, which was unexpected!
I don't get it... let me show you an example with a fanmade pokemon:
http://hourglasshero.deviantart.com/art/061-Dojoku-294138982
It's evolutions employ different specific martial arts.
I find that way more interesting than eeveelutions. Those evolutions look more diverse than the eeveelutions ever will.
http://hourglasshero.deviantart.com/art/061-Dojoku-294138982
It's evolutions employ different specific martial arts.
I find that way more interesting than eeveelutions. Those evolutions look more diverse than the eeveelutions ever will.
Mitja said:
That's it. We're saying the same thing in the end, but when reading your first comment about the dinosaur with a different armor and the magician, it seemed too simple and more or like the same that happens with Eeveelutions, because I don't think that just that - an armor - would do that much difference, even if it adds a second type...it would be another kind of Rotom or Genesect. I think we can certainly have more of these but even more of those different evolutions coming from one Pokémon due to items and attacks.
But, even with that particular "Dojoku" example, I think it can go further with all these evolutions still evolving and dissipating their visual similarities! Imagine if Entei, Suicune and Raikou were presented to you as three distinct Pokémon, far from each in the Pkdex but then through gameplay you'd find out that they are actually evolutions for Flareon, Vaporeon and Jolteon because not only Eevee adapted to certain environments by evolving but these evolutions adapted even further!!
Mitja said:
While you may be right about M.Ampharos, just look at M.Aerodactyl, M.Aggron, M.Charizard XY, M.Garchomp and others and you may notice that it might not have required that much effort as coming up with entirely new Pokémon. Mega-Aerodactyl is the lamiest excuse for a Mega, both in design and explanation, more so when in ASOR we don't have M.Cradily and M.Armaldo...so, I really am looking foward to see how these (and all other fossils) really looked like in their time.
About Gen. V, like you've posted in that "relation thread" of yours, Gen. V follows the same kind of Pokémon with Gen. V's Pokémon being somewhat counterparts to Gen. I's Pokémon, so that work was already behind their back after going for "let's mimick families but with different species and designs".