RMT Die and Die Some More (Trick Room, peak 1700+)

Futa

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Yo

Some of you might remember or at the very least recognize me. And those who do probably don’t remember me around this part of the forums. No, I’m not getting back into Pokemon. I quit mons long ago and don’t regret my decision.

… but due to a freak accident that got me and one of my best friends injured over the summer, we both got pretty damn bored not being able to do much. My friend also shared an interest in Pokemon when he was younger, specifically in the video games, so he decided to have a race to see who can make it to the 1700+ on the PS! ladder first. (That damn scrub got to it first, smh.) I had a little bit of experience on the XY PS! ladder, since I played it for fun for like a few weeks in December 2013/January 2014 before I got bored. (The incentive of bragging rights and $50 was too much to pass up ;)) So even though VG was never more forte, I wasn’t really clueless coming in, although I did have to do some research like realizing that Ruby/Sapphire remakes actually exist.

So, when we originally started this race back in the middle of June, I was basically stuck on the bottom ladder for a good two weeks while he quickly rose to like 1500. I tried different stall teams (all boring as shit), offense teams (all frail as shit), and balance teams (not bad not bad). I even decided to do some weird gimmicky teams, like a Tailwind team just for kicks and giggles. And strangely enough, the Tailwind team was mildly successful, or at least it brought me out of the 1200s.

But if there’s anything that I really like about Tailwind teams, is that it lets me use some really damn strong mons without me having to worry about their speed too much. On the other hand, the crappy thing about Tailwind is that it lasts about as long as an orgasm (i.e. not long enough). So I figured, why not use Trick Room? It would allow me to throw in some EVs into bulk instead of speed, giving my powerful mons some decent survivability. That’s something I wish offense would have. Trick Room can also carry a bunch of mons that can tear shit up and keep momentum, unlike balance which is limited to only a few offensive mons and then other mons that just kill momentum. And, unlike stall, Trick Room can actually outspeed stuff (and also isn’t boring as shit, smh). Granted, I have to keep Trick Room up if I really wanna tear shit up, but hey. Easy come easy go.

I guess I'm uploading this here due to sentimental reasons. Once my leg heals in a week or so, I'm probably gonna be quitting this again, so I thought, why the hell not and give y'all something.

The process:

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So, in my original Tailwind team, Mega Heracross and Tyrantrum were my primary attackers. They might be a little bit speedy for a Trick Room team, but that speed is actually really good against stall (more on that later). So, I decided to add these two to my team to start.

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Obviously, I’m gonna need some Trick Room users. Cresselia stuck out to me. It has some insane bulk that lets it switch in multiple times and set up Trick Room, while also giving me Lunar Dance as a reset button for my attackers.

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Cresselia obviously isn’t enough; it’s bound to get overwhelmed. So, I went for regular Diancie. It sets up Trick Room, places rocks, and goes boom.

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I was looking around for some really slow and powerful mons, and Pangoro caught my eye as a fun little thing to try out. 124 Atk, Iron Fist, 48 speed, and a damn nice movepool. Why the hell not?

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So, the team is absurdly weak to Fairies right now. Yeah, my attackers can all outspeed them under a Trick Room, but they aren’t switching in to Fairies at all. To mitigate this problem, I threw in Victini, who could resist the Fairies and also set up Trick Room.

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Fairies were still too much of a problem, and Pangoro just felt so underwhelming compared to Heracross and Tyrantrum. So, I dropped Pangoro in favor for either Scizor or Escavalier. I ended up going for the latter due to greater bulk and lower speed.

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So I was playing around one day and found out this thing called Hoopa Unbound was released. HOLY SHIT does this thing hit hard and have an underwhelming speed tier. I really wanted to try it, even if it meant making me a little Fairy weak again.

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So as I played around some more, I realized that Fairies weren’t my only problem. Scizor was outright a pain in the ass, along with other really slow mons like Hippowdown, Slowbro, and Ferrothorn (I could kill them but they would always be annoying). So I decided to make a bit of a switch. I dropped Victini in favor of Slowbro as my third Trick Roomer, who could underspeed most of the really slow mons and provided another good bulky pivot, something that Victini couldn’t be. Then I dropped Tyrantrum in favor of Magnezone, who could replace Tyrantrum’s role as a birdspam check, replace Escavalier’s role as a Fairy check, and still hurt Scizor and Ferrothorn.

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Thanks to PG24, I decided to burn Zone with fire and throw in Specs Eruption Heatran. This thing hits godly hard and can 2HKO common switch ins. Plus, it still accomplishes the roles that Zone has, being a birdspam/Fairy/Scizor/Ferrothorn check but it has like way more power and the immunity to Fire is much appreciated.

The team:

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Diancie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Diamond Storm
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock

You know, it’s really funny how many people I see who always expect Diance to be mega. I mean you’d think it’d be painfully obvious that Diancie isn’t a mega when I Trick Room on the first damn turn, people.

Anyways, Diance leads the team 99% of the time. Trick Room is obvious; it’s a Trick Room team goddammit. Stealth Rock is also obvious. Basically every team needs to have a Rocks user, and Diancie serves the role very well due to its bulk, typing, and the fact that it can pretty much always set up rocks with Trick Room. Explosion is an odd move, but is extremely helpful. One of the biggest things about Trick Room is that it pretty much always needs to keep momentum, kind of like offense teams. With Explosion, Diancie can dish out some hurt but also give me a free switch into one of my attackers, no prediction required, no damage done to the new mon. Explosion also turns several 2HKO’s into OHKOs against Pokemon that are typically sent out against Diancie, like Rotom-W. This makes Diance a great suicide lead. Lastly, Diamond Storm serves as an alternative way to do damage, albeit I rarely use it. Still, Diamond Storm lets Diancie become a great Talonflame check, removing some pressure off of Zone.

The EV’s are to maximize its physical bulk and to minimize its speed so that it can outspeed stuff in Trick Room. I decided to go physically defensive Rock/Fairy typically invites a lot of physical mons. 8 Atk EVs are to buff up Explosion damage, because honestly 8 EVs in SpD are pretty useless.

Focus Sash guarantees that I can lay up a Trick Room before it dies. Like, while it might seem smarter to switch out Diancie into a safer Trick Roomer (like against an Excadrill), I don’t want to be giving my opponent too many free switches, and Diancie also has the benefit of Explosion to get very early momentum (I don’t wanna waste Cresselia’s Lunar Dance early and Slowbro has no suicide move, forcing me to rely more on prediction). I’ve also tried Normal Gem to increase Explosion damage and Mental Herb to let me Trick Room through a Taunt. Honestly, I’ve rotated between these items and they are all great.

While I did say Diancie is a great lead and I do tend to suicide with it, it’s very important to keep Diancie alive if I see a Hoopa on the otherside. Diancie is the only thing that can take a hit from Hoopa. And, obviously, if you don’t need to commit suicide with Diancie, don’t do it. Diancie is still a great damage absorber later in the game.

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Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry / Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Ice Beam
- Safeguard / Moonlight

My second Trick Roomer, Cresselia is soooo invaluable. It’s the bulkiest Trick Roomer on the time, being able to set up Trick Room multiple times throughout the game. Ice Beam is a great attack to at least put a little bit of offensive pressure on some mons. At the very least, it makes Cress a great answer to Defensive Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Gliscor, especially Garchomp because its Dragon Tail will hit before any of my mons can Trick Room, so Ice Beam puts lots of pressure on it. Lunar Dance is hella rad move. I called it a “reset button” in the teambuilding preview and that basically describes it. I’ve won so many games because of Lunar Dance. In the late game, when my mons are all worn down, I can usually Trick Room and then Lunar Dance on the next turn, giving the recipient three more turns to tear stuff up. This is especially helpful because it not only lets me switch into a new mon without having to worry about the damage, but the full heal from Lunar Dance is godly when I don’t have to worry about Life Orb damage, status, or priority revenge kills as much. If push comes to shove, the full heal from Lunar Dance can even let the recipient take a hit from outside of Trick Room and continue to kill. Honestly, in a team that hits hard and outspeeds mostly everything, Lunar Dance is so clutch. Last but not least, Safeguard. It’s more or less a filler move, but it’s nice being able to switch into Scald and Lava Plume while not having to worry about shitty burns. I use Moonlight when I use Colbur Berry so Cress can at least get more life.

EV’s maximize Cresselia’s special bulk, which is great considering my other Trick Roomers are physically bulky. 248 HP EVs avoids extra Stealth Rock damage. 8 Def because honestly it doesn’t matter where I put it at all; the 8 Def EVs just make me feel comfortable when I need to switch Cress in onto a physical mon (which it can still tank very well). Minimal speed because Trick Room. 0 IVs in attack to screw with Foul Play.


I went for Sitrus berry over Leftovers simply because Cress doesn’t stay in long enough to get that much of a benefit from Leftovers, whereas Sitrus Berry can turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs, which can hopefully give me an extra turn of pivoting and Trick Rooming. Mental Herb is, again, another option to Trick Room through Taunt. Another item I’ve tried is Colbur berry, which reduces the damage a Dark attack would do on Cress. This is great because it takes some pressure off of Diance as a mon that can Trick Room against Hoopa, but it forces me to run Moonlight over Safeguard and Sitrus is simply too clutch.

Try to keep Cresselia alive in the lategame. I said it earlier and I’ll say it again: Lunar. Dance. Is. fudging. Clutch.

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Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Bullet Seed / Swords Dance

185 Atk. 120 BP moves. 4 of them. That’s more painful the Seahawks’ loss to the Patriots. Substitute users annoy the hell out of Trick Room; you gotta waste a turn of Trick Room just to unsub, and you still risk them subbing again. Heracross just messes up all of those sub uses and then some. Moves are relatively standard for a Mega Heracross. Close Combat and Pin Missile are obligatory STAB moves, while Rock Blast is more suited for the Flying and Fairy types that resist Heracross’ stab combination. The last move has always been a bit of a toss up for me. Bullet Seed is amazing because I can crush Keldeo, Rotom-W, and most importantly, Quagsire. It’s also great for letting me 2HKO Hippowdown without having to lower Defense/miss, and it’s a more reliable coverage move than Rock Blast due to accuracy. Alternatively, Swords Dance lets Heracross tear through balance builds and lets it beat some of its would-be checks and counters. All of a sudden, Heracross has a high/guaranteed chance of OHKOing Hippowdon, offensive Landorus-T, Magic Guard Clefable, Skarmory, Mega Sableye. It’s still a pain losing a turn due to having to set up though, and I lose the OHKO on Quagsire which sucks.

What do the EV’s do?

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Heracronite because I want my mega. I decided to go Moxie on regular Heracross because being able to get a Moxie boost before I MEvo is really good, especially against offense/bulky offense builds. (+1 Mega Heracross always kills Mega Metagross!)

Due to Moxie, don’t always MEvo immediately. While the drop in speed and greater bulk as a mega mon is really good, being able to grab a boost puts extra pressure on the opponent. Obviously, if you’re about to lose your Trick Room or if your opponent has a Talonflame, there’s no real reason to stay as a scrawny regular mon.

Also, one of the biggest advantages of Mega Heracross is in fact that awkward speed tier. At min speed, Mega Heracross hits 139 speed, which means that Conk, Hippowdown, and uninvested Azumarill outspeed Hera in the Trick Room. On the other hand, Heracross outspeeds a lot of really slow, fat mons like Chansey, Mega Sableye, Amoongus, and Slowbro, which is really helpful against stall.

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Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

Look at this thing. You know why that shell is really on Slowbro? Cuz everyone wants some of him. He’s single, ladies ;)

Oh ummmmmmmm Slowbro is my third and final Trick Room user on the team. Even without any Def investment, Slowbro is still a very bulky mon, although it can’t switch into nearly as many things as it could with max Defense. With Regenerator, this makes Slowbro a great Trick Roomer because it can come in and out and Trick Room multiple times throughout the game. Scald is a necessary STAB move, and the chance of burn is very stupid nice. Psyshock is another STAB move, and it lets me nail Fighting types pretty well. I decided to go for Ice Beam in order to hit the dragons, Landorus-T, and Gliscor better. An alternative to Ice Beam is Fire Blast to hit Ferrothorn and Celebi and other Grass types, but honestly with Heracross and Magnezone they aren’t really trouble. (Plus it hits only 4% of the time so why bother). Slack Off is an option to retain some more life, but honestly, considering that Slowbro is an offensive Trick Room user and has Regenerator, I’ve always liked having that third attack to nail some mons.

You know the drill. 248 HP to hit max HP while minimizing Stealth Rock damage. 252 SpA and a Quiet nature because Slowbro is an offensive Trick Room user; that extra power is extremely helpful, especially against people who think Slowbro is a purely Defensive mon. 8 arbitrary EVs in Def because the illusion of more relevant bulk. Minimum speed and 0 Spe IVs because it’s a Trick Room team goddammit. 0 IVs in Atk because to hell with Foul Play.

Although I’ve preached about Slowbro being an offensive Trick Room user, at the end of the day, it’s still a Trick Room user. I want to keep it alive for as long as possible. For this reason, I decided to go for Leftovers instead of Life Orb or something, just to squeeze in some extra life.

Slowbro is honestly a great glue mon to the team. In a team where the offensive mons are quite fast and can actually be outsped but really slow mons in Trick Room, Slowbro is great because it can handle all of those really slow mons due to having low speed, including Mons Like Hippowdown and Conkeldurr. The irony of it all. Slowbro is also a great check to Specs Keldeo, who would terrorize this team. Lastly, even though Slowbro does have some natural bulk, he’s not nearly as bulky as max Def Slowbro. Don’t get too reckless switching him in because a lot of would be 3HKOs are now 2HKOs. A perfect example is Mega Lopunny’s Return.

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Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power

Thanks to TDL PG24 for being ma homie and suggesting this thing cuz like Tran is the shit.

Aight so Specs STAB Eruption off of 130 SpA? Yeah this thing burns through (yeah you can kill me) even resists. Like the only mon that can handle that kind of pain is Chansey but hey what Special Attacker outside of Keldeo doesn't have trouble with Chansey? Yeah I thought so. But seriously Eruption is the obligatory STAB, and it outdamages Fire Blast even after 2 rounds of Rocks and outdamages Flamethrower after 3 rounds. 2HKOs stuff like Bro, Rotom-W, Keld, [email protected], etc. so that's really dang nice. Since I tend to play a little conservatively with Tran and I have Lunar Dance support I decided not to go for another Fire attack because I really wanted the coverage. Flash Cannon is to better handle Clef because once it sets up a CM then even Tran can't break through it. Hoopa sure as hell can but I don't wanna risk the Moonblast. Earth Power is to handle other Trans. Ancient Power is to handle Birds which is nice since it takes a lot of pressure of of Diancie and Bro to check Talonflame.

248 HP = life. 252 SpA = die. 8 SpD = why not. Quiet and the IVs minimize speed/Atk for Foul Play and Room.

Specs is to maximize how much die Tran has. Like it honestly turns a lot of 3HKOs into 2HKOs which is really nice considering a buncha people usually like switching in their waters and dragons on this thing only to have it die a turn later. Like having Specs does suck ass when I'm against a Trace user like regular Garde or MZam or I'm against opposing Trans and have to use my head and predict but 9/10 times Specs is the mvp.

So like I said earlier Eruption is still stronger than Fire Blast after two rounds of Rocks and is stronger than Flamethrower after a third. Honestly the former is more important because Eruption has that greater accuracy. So like I try not to switch Tran in too much especially if Rocks are up so that Eruption can just murder shit. Tran's great in the early game/late game because early game it won't have lots of damage on it and late game I can Lunar Dance to it.



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Hoopa-Bound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

Once upon a time there was an Escavalier here. “I love my job!” cried the young Escavalier, as he playfully threw around his Iron Head and stopped Fairies. He did his job magnificently, doing lots of damage, having great bulk, really slow speed, and insane typing.

And then Hoopa was released.

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No seriously, even though Hoopa doesn’t replace Escavalier’s role as a really slow, really fat mon, Hoopa hits insanely hard. It barely under-damages Mega Heracross with Life Orb, which is really impressive. Hyperspace Fury is one of the biggest reasons to use Hoopa. As a Dark move, it has very few safe switch ins (and those who do switch in get bopped Hoopa’s other moves). It hits very hard, and most importantly, can hit through Protect and Substitute, which would otherwise be a pain in the ass to handle in Trick Room. For this same reason, I’m using Hyperspace Hole. While Psychic does out damage HSH and has the benefit of the SpD drop, HSH can hit through Protect and can deliver a heavy blow on to Unaware Clef and Mega Diancie using Protect. Gunk Shot and Drain Punch are just for coverage. The former lets me take out Clef and Sylveon while the latter lets me beat Bisharp, Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Chansey without having to deal with a Def drop or switch out.

248 HP EVs because Hoopa chooses life and not Stealth Rocks damage. 252 Atk EVs to murder crap. 8 SpA EVs because why the hell not. Brave nature to maximize attack and minimize speed. Unfortunately, Hoopa still gets outsped by support Ttar under Trick Room, which is quite unfortunate but the only relevant speed difference between Hoopa and Mega Heracross.

Life Orb for more die.

Hoopa is damn solid against Protect/Sub users because Hyperspace whatever can hit through those two moves. HS Hole has a chance to kill MDiancie after a round of Rocks, and it can hit through Diancie’s protect. HS Hole also 2HKOs max Def Unaware Clef after Rocks, which is nice (though I still like Gunk Shot lol). HS Fury 2HKOs Ferro and Heatran through Protect, and obviously kills Gengar through Sub. Honestly Hoopa is a great wallbreaker along with MHera, don’t be afraid to play recklessly as hell with it, and try to keep it alive to nail some Fairies with Gunk Miss.


Threatlist:
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^priceless

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I hate Scizors. So. Damn. Much. If SD + 3 attacks Scizor can set up and Trick Room kicks in, it can literally 6-0 my whole team. Bulky and Banded Scizors are more manageable, but I HAVE to make sure I can keep Zone alive, and I HAVE to make sure they don’t predict a switch and U-Turn out. I usually have to sac a mon to kill this thing unless I predict like a god.

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This asshole is a blessing and a curse. This thing can be a pain in the ass depending on the set. Scarf Hoopa is hella easy to play around, but Life Orb, AoA, NP, or whatever set can literally sweep my whole team if Diancie is out. Colbur Berry Cress makes this thing much easier to play around, and I have to predict well to make sure I always keep the Room up. Overall, while not as bad as Scizor, still a pain in the ass.

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Clefable isn’t a major threat, but it always can put a least a small dent in the team depending on the set. If it’s the MG+T-Wave set (which is thankfully the most popular set atm), Clef isn’t a problem at all; Zone just comes in on it and forces it out. If it’s Flamethrower though, then I need to rely a bit more on prediction because it can bop Hera, Hoopa, and Zone, and Slowbro/Cress/Diancie can’t do much back. Swords Dance Hera makes any MG set very easy to beat, and I can still put tons of pressure on it with Hoopa/Zone.

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Or any other strong Dark type, really (outside of T-Tar). Bisharp and Weavile can just thump right over my Trick Roomers, especially non-Colbur Cress. They’re not giant threats because Hera can handle them pretty easily, but if they predict the Hera switch then its gonna take a nice dent.

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Taunt users suck because they can stop the Room. In this case, the last two are the easiest Taunt users to play around because I have answers for them outside of the Room. The biggest pain in the ass is Taunt MGarde though cuz it can just set back and kill everything.

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BD and AV are the problems. If BD, then if it can ever hit the BD and Room isn't up then it sweeps. Nothing can handle it. For AV, it's annoying cuz like it outspeeds Hera/Hoopa/Tran in the Room and can kill them with stabs while hurting Bro a lot back. Still it's so much easier to handle than BD.

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So I honestly haven’t faced enough Char-Ys to see if this thing is a threat or not, but on paper it is. I have no switch ins for this thing, so I likely have to sac a mon just to get a Trick Room setter in, and then sac the Trick Room mon (Cress takes over 50% from Fire Blast, so its only good for one go). Luckily its not common so yay.

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Just like Char-Y, I have no switch ins to MHera, and it can OHKO my entire team except for my own MHera, who can only put a dent in it back. Just like Char-Y, it is pretty rare.


Things I’m Trying:

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I’ve been messing around with different Cress sets. While I’ve used Sitrus/Safeguard and Colbur/Moonlight, I’m considering stuff like Sitrus/Mist and Sitrus/Magic Coat. The former prevents stat drops which, on paper, is great because it makes sure Hoopa and MHera don’t have their defenses lowered after nailing some mons, and it also makes handling Lando-T a lot easier. The latter is just a way for me to stop Taunt users.

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Honestly it's just for the extra SpD boost cuz Slowbro gets 2HKOed by physical hits anyways and the SpD helps against stuff like Diancie. There are a few occasions like MLop where the extra Def is good so hm idk.

Old and (probably) forgotten:
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Magnezone @ Life Orb
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Quite honestly, I’ve never really liked Special Attack wallbreakers, outside of like Keldeo or something. They’re all so easily checked (fudge you Chansey), their moves are inaccurate as hell (Hydro Miss, Fire Miss, Focus Miss), or they are suddenly fucked due to a -2 SpA stat drop. Thankfully for Magnezone, he doesn’t share all of these traits. Hell yeah.

The Zone moveset is as standard as it gets. Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are nice STAB moves, the latter of which having the honor of killing Clefable. HP Fire nails Scizor and Ferrothorn. That last move doesn’t really matter that much to be honest. I mean, Signal Beam is a cute idea because it can nail [email protected], but they take heavy damage from Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon anyways. So I opted for Volt Switch to at least pick up some momentum if I don’t want to keep Zone in. It’s also good for switching into Cress or Slowbro right when the Trick Room ends, so I can damage and then reset the Room next turn.

248 HP EVs because Stealth Rocks and yay bulk. 252 SpA EVs because yay power. Quiet because yay power nay speed. The weird one, though, is the IVs. I’ll be perfectly honest; I DON’T know the IV numbers that would be HP Fire, still maximize Zone’s other stats (save Atk) and minimize speed. I’d like for Zone to at least get below 135 speed so that it can outspeed uninvested Azumarill under a Trick Room. At the very least, the current setup gives it the same speed as Mega Heracross, which certainly isn’t bad.

Life Orb is to increase Zone’s damage output while still keeping momentum. I personally hate Choiced mons on a Trick Room team simply because the turn taken to switch out the Choiced mon is a valuable waste of a turn.

If there’s a Skarmory, Ferrothorn, or Scizor anywhere on your opponent’s team, save Zone. ESPECIALLY if you see Scizor, because that asshole is the biggest threat to the team. While the other mons can be handled by the teammates, I just really really really really really really really really really really really like you hate them. Skarm, even though it can’t always switch in safely, still threatens Heracross with Counter/Brave Bird, and Rocky Helmet sucks. Ferrothorn can stall out Trick Room with Protect, setup some Spikes due to its stupidly slow speed, and is annoying with Leech Seed and Rocky Helmet. Zone just takes some pressure off of the team by removing them.

Dropped it because Tran has more die in it than Zone and could still check the same crucial threats that Zone checked, and Tran could still check even more threats than Zone couldn't.

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Emboar @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Wild Charge
-Hammer Arm
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice/Sucker Punch

Honestly please don't recommend Emboar unless you can back it up with some really good reasoning or some other set that I haven't thought of at all because honestly I think Emboar sucks ass. Yeah it's got a lovely HP stat but that doesn't matter when the fire pig has like 65/65 defenses, a plethora of weaknesses, and has to suffer through Life Orb damage + recoil damage basically every turn it hits something. I mean yeah it hits hard af but when it can't come in on a neutral hit at all it really just kinda becomes a bit of a liability.

Replays:


Importable:

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Diancie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Diamond Storm
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Bullet Seed

Cresselia @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

Magnezone @ Life Orb
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
 
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Team Rocket Fan

Team Rocket Lover and Humble Katy Cat!
Member
That's a really great team you have there! The only thing I can find wrong is that you use Hyperspace Hole on a physical set. I'd just go for Zen Headbutt as a good physical STAB with a great flinch chance.
 

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
Forum Mod
Member
It's a mixed set which uses both special and physical moves. Since Hoopa-U has great power on both physical and special offensive sides it can be used as a mixed attacker.
The move is great for dealing with Protect users that can be used against him to spend a turn under Trick Room which without it they can outrun Hoopa-U and OHKO him before he does.
 

Team Rocket Fan

Team Rocket Lover and Humble Katy Cat!
Member
If it works, OK then. Abomasnow would work well in this team. If you think you can make a change. But this team has a pretty good synergy the way it is.
 

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
Forum Mod
Member
Very interesting team. Really easy to use and understand. There are a lot of intelligent choices on the team that I really like such as the use of Hera and Hoopa to prevent the opponent from spending valuable turns for Trick Room.
Regarding Magnezone's IV's, you can just have 0 IV's in speed since 0 is considered as an even number in the game.
Couple of questions :
1. Why don't you have any form of hazard removal? Hoopa-U is one of your main attackers and Life Orb recoil+SR damage can prevent you from switching in and out.
Switching out freely imo is very important especially for Trick Room team since you want to set up TR right after it's over.
2. Have you thought about Unaware users (Quagsire and Clefable) to put a stop to set up sweepers such as SD Bisharp/Weavile? (even Scizor and Azumarill if you go with Quag and get a burn with Scald). I think it's worth to test that.

Edit: I also think Taunt is a big issue, like in every full TR team. Maybe Mega Sableye? Magic Bounce can also act as a great way to deal with hazards, Prankster Will-o-Wisp or just Will-oWisp after Mega evolving can threat physical attackers and it is a very nice status absorber with its ability.Only problem is that Mega Heracross is the last thing I would consider to drop from this team.
 
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Professor Palutena

The Queen
Member
I don't think Focus Sash is useful on Diancie given it's pretty good bulk (50/150/150). I would try Mental Herb to act as a method of stopping Taunt.
 

PG24

<Pride> I'm my wildest fantasy
Advanced Member
Member
holy shit gliscor i missed u bb : o

Cool team man. If you're really worried about Scizor so much, try out Specs Eruption Heatran with Sunny Day Heat Rock Cresselia. This also somewhat fixes up your problems with Taunt Serperior and Mew while also checking Charizard. I don't think it will hurt your synergy too much since it handles a lot of the things that Magnezone does. Sets if you're interested in trying it out:

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Satk / 3 Spd
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- filler, don't use solar beam plox

Cresselia (F) @ Heat Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Sunny Day
- Psychic / Ice Beam / HP Fire / Magic Coat / whatever you need

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 309-364 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 238-281 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro in Sun: 363-428 (92.1 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo in Sun: 329-387 (101.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria in Sun: 290-342 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X in Sun: 173-204 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Didn't even bother factoring in Stealth Rocks.
 
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Futa

Aspiring Trainer
Member
That's a really great team you have there! The only thing I can find wrong is that you use Hyperspace Hole on a physical set. I'd just go for Zen Headbutt as a good physical STAB with a great flinch chance.

Yeah scattered mind is right, HH is soooooooooo clutch for beating stuff like Diancie. I mean like even though Hoopa has no SpA investment its still a 80 power STAB move off of a 170 SpA, so it hits pretty damn hard.

If it works, OK then. Abomasnow would work well in this team. If you think you can make a change. But this team has a pretty good synergy the way it is.

Meeeeeeeeh Abomasnow. Honestly on paper the snow monster just feels so average. Like his defenses are about the same as MHera but his typing is like waaaaaaaaaaaay worse and I lose a lot of big resistances that MHera has (dark, mainly). MHera hits so much harder too so there's that I guess. I mean I guess MSnowman does have lower speed, can go mixed, and has a great dual STAB but the loss and power and switch in opportunities suck pretty hard.

Very interesting team. Really easy to use and understand. There are a lot of intelligent choices on the team that I really like such as the use of Hera and Hoopa to prevent the opponent from spending valuable turns for Trick Room.
Regarding Magnezone's IV's, you can just have 0 IV's in speed since 0 is considered as an even number in the game.
Couple of questions :
1. Why don't you have any form of hazard removal? Hoopa-U is one of your main attackers and Life Orb recoil+SR damage can prevent you from switching in and out.
Switching out freely imo is very important especially for Trick Room team since you want to set up TR right after it's over.
2. Have you thought about Unaware users (Quagsire and Clefable) to put a stop to set up sweepers such as SD Bisharp/Weavile? (even Scizor and Azumarill if you go with Quag and get a burn with Scald). I think it's worth to test that.

Edit: I also think Taunt is a big issue, like in every full TR team. Maybe Mega Sableye? Magic Bounce can also act as a great way to deal with hazards, Prankster Will-o-Wisp or just Will-oWisp after Mega evolving can threat physical attackers and it is a very nice status absorber with its ability.Only problem is that Mega Heracross is the last thing I would consider to drop from this team.

Ooooh cool thanks for the EVs ;D
Honestly this team has no room for hazard removal because each member plays such a crucial role on the team. And having to spend a turn to remove hazards just kills so much momentum on the team, which sucks hard cuz like having momentum on Trick Room is muy importante. Like don't get me wrong, I'd love to have it, but any LO+hazards damage is kind of offset by Cress and I don't really mind suiciding with Zone and Hoopa simply because MHera is a more reliable late gamer.
Yeah I thought about Unaware users but honestly it's easier to just type trump them. Clef and Quag just don't have enough killing power and outside of stopping some setup sweepers they won't really do much since I'd prefer to be just killing shit. Cress + Colbur can tank Weavile/Bisharp anyways so I can switch into like MHera or Zone and start going to town.
Yeah, Taunt is a problem but honestly Magic Bounce just won't fit into the team well. I don't need to explain Espe-way too frickin fast-on. MSab imo just wouldn't fit on the team because you said it yourself, I don't wanna drop MHera. Plus like, it stops Taunt, but then what? Can't do too much outside of that other than switch out.

I don't think Focus Sash is useful on Diancie given it's pretty good bulk (50/150/150). I would try Mental Herb to act as a method of stopping Taunt.

Yeah I switch between Mental Herb/Normal Gem/Focus Sash on Diancie a lot. Honestly it's because I like surviving bullshit crits that happen 100% of the time that I lean towards Sash.

holy shiat gliscor i missed u bb : o

Cool team man. If you're really worried about Scizor so much, try out Specs Eruption Heatran with Sunny Day Heat Rock Cresselia. This also somewhat fixes up your problems with Taunt Serperior and Mew while also checking Charizard. I don't think it will hurt your synergy too much since it handles a lot of the things that Magnezone does. Sets if you're interested in trying it out:

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Satk / 3 Spd
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- filler, don't use solar beam plox

Cresselia (F) @ Heat Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Sunny Day
- Psychic / Ice Beam / HP Fire / Magic Coat / whatever you need

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 309-364 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 238-281 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro in Sun: 363-428 (92.1 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo in Sun: 329-387 (101.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria in Sun: 290-342 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X in Sun: 173-204 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Didn't even bother factoring in Stealth Rocks.

102141-avatar-the-last-airbender-emotional-aang.gif


So I tinkered with this and am kinda mixed about it. Like, I hate Cress without any recovery and without any way of doing damage. Ice Beam may be situational af but when I use it it's so damn helpful. So Sunday + Heat Rock was a nein to me. But Tran. HOLY SHIT TRAN. ERMAGAWD THIS THING HITS HARD AF. Like Lunar Dance + Eruption is like satan even after Rocks damage and outside of sun.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255538130
^That's the only replay I could find but its one of many where Tran puts in some good work. Yeah if no one's picked up already I knifed Zone for Tran.

Anyways on to some other stuff.
-I played around with Emboar a bit more and I'm for sure not gonna bother with it. Like in a meta with RHelm Chomp everywhere Emboar just dies so easily and even the Reckless boosted Wild Charge can't kill a lot of threats like Slowbro. I mean yeah Tran can't kill Bro either but at least Tran puts a big dent with no drawbacks.
-Giving a look at Slowking and Life Orb Slowbro/King for more offensive presence. With no Def investment Slowbro can't really take physical attacks all too well anyways and the extra SpD is appreciated when I need to deal with things like Diancie. I mean I guess there's times where Bro's better like when I'm against MLop or when King isn't at full health but w/e that's mons experiment and have a helluva time. Oh and about LO I noticed a lot that there some times that I want that extra buff in die, like against Tran and Hippo which can mean the difference between a 2hKO and an OHKO after rocks of course.
-So Taunt MGarde is a bitch. Like literally it will beat my team 70% of the time. For this reason I decided to go for Mental Herb > Focus Sash as per Palutena's suggestion. It sucks that I gotta play a lil more defensively with Diancie which is less fun but it's honestly better than I be smarter with it and let it live longer anyways.
-BD Azu also sucks ass. This one is a lil trickier to handle but I've thought about Cofagrigus for this thing cuz it cancels out Huge Power and can Willo it back. Cofa could also be an alternative Scizor/MLop check and still be a Trick Roomer setter but it's lack of reliable recovery sucks and I'm thinking I'd really miss out of the coverage/typing that Bro can give.

Edit: so I just realized that the forum automatically censors f-bombs and s-bombs. I probably look like a damn tool right now with all of the "fricking" and "shiat"s everywhere in this thread but w/e lol.
 
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