Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 24

[SourBawss]

I think Dragonite has the largest impact on the metagame right now. Its ability Multiscale lets it easily set up a Dragon Dance then KO at least 1-2 Pokemon before it can get taken down. This can be further aided with Lum Berry so it can use Outrage and not end up confused after the two or three turns it does that. Ones that use Dragon Claw could easily have Earthquake or FirePunch to deal with Steel types which are the only Pokemon that resist dragon moves.

Not that I think Dnite isn't a big threat but I think you're hyping him up way too much.

252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 47.31% - 55.69%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon: 50.24% - 59.52%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 248 HP/176 Def Cloyster: 52.81% - 62.71%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

The 2 former come in on a DD and then proceed to tank the hit and phaze Dnite out, while the lattar proceeds to KO w/ Icicle Spear.

Heatran also gets special mention as with the Air Ballon, most Dnite can't touch it (I'm asumming the standard set DD/Outrage/FirePunch/EQ)
If it happens to have ESpeed then depending on the coverage move Skarm and Tran can wall the Dnite with minimum effort.

This is also assuming SR isn't up! With SR up Ballon Tran KO's w/ HP Ice.

It also has reliable recovery in the form of Roost which might activate Multiscale again. It can basically use this in combination with Dragon Dance to set up and sweep an entire team that isn't prepared.

With DD/Roost/Dragon Move/Filler Pokémon like Skarm and Tran wall it for days and proceed to Phaze or (If you're Tran) KO.

There is also the parashuffle Dragonite. While it doesn't have the same offensive prowess the Dragon Dance variant has, it does have the ability to force many switches and paralyze teams between Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail. Entry hazards make this Dragonite even more threatening. This Dragonite also likes to use Substitute to block attempts to cripple it with a status condition. Even Ferrothorn can't really stop this Dragonite well. You basically are forced to let a faster Pokemon weaken it, but get paralyzed in the process, unless that Pokemon is named Landorus or Gliscor.

Sub/TWave/Roost/DTail as you've already stated is taken care of by Land and Gli but Taunt completley ruins it as well, forcing the Dragon to Dtail allowing you ample oppurtunity to break it's Sub and force it out. Cress also gets an honourable mention as well:

0 Atk Dragonite Dragon Tail vs 252 HP/252 Def Cresselia: 12.16% - 14.41%
12-16 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

But before that happens you break the Sub with Ice Beam.
Again, this is all assuming Nite is behind a sub. Status, especially Toxic completley ruins it.

BTW lolwut of course Ferro can't stop this Dnite set, why are you sending it out in the first place?

I feel Dragonite forces teams not only to be able to withstand powerful attacks, but to also be able to function while paralyzed. It really could be considered borderline Uber just because of those two sets.

Nope.avi for my reasons above.

Skarmory can't defeat Dragonite if the Dragonite has Substitute as Dragonite is faster than Skarmory. It can only wall its moves.

LMAO I'm sorry Excuse me? Skarmory is a wall! It's supposd to take hits! Your scenario is also in favour of Skarm as Sub indicates no Fire Punch and Skarm can easily WW it away.

Jirachi is a bit risky to use because Earthquake from the offensive variant is quite damaging. If you predict the Dragonite to be the offensive set and it is the defensive one, it can really ruin your plans.

Unless Dnite is the parashuffler set, Jirachi shouldn't even be considered as a switch in.
Base on a team preview you can take an educated guess as to what set the Dnite can be.
Besides you seem to forget that SR ruins Nites Multi scale, so while it is defiently a top threat, it is not uber.
btw Mamoswine says hi :] el-oh-el

 

[King Arceus]

Skarmory only phases, it doesn't kill it.

Sub/TWave/Roost/DTail as you've already stated is taken care of by Land and Gli but Taunt completley ruins it as well, forcing the Dragon to Dtail allowing you ample oppurtunity to break it's Sub and force it out. Cress also gets an honourable mention as well:

How often is Cresselia even used? The amount of hits the Dragon Tail version has is irrelevant unless the Cress has Sub. The point of the set is to paralyze the opposing team with it. It isn't to sweep it with parashuffler Dragonite.

I often run Brick Break over FirePunch on my Dragonite because then it actually can hit Heatran. It also gives it an edge against Ttar.

 

[Dangerous36M]

Skarmory only phases, it doesn't kill it.


How often is Cresselia even used? The amount of hits the Dragon Tail version has is irrelevant unless the Cress has Sub. The point of the set is to paralyze the opposing team with it. It isn't to sweep it with parashuffler Dragonite.

I often run Brick Break over FirePunch on my Dragonite because then it actually can hit Heatran. It also gives it an edge against Ttar.

Running Brick Break means you have zero chance against Forretress or Skarm, while phazing Dragonite out with SR up deals with it just fine.

On top of that I doubt +1 Brick Break even OHKO's Heatran in the first place.

 

[SourBawss]

Some Volcarona run the Chesto Rest set which is still quite threatening making physical attacks the only way you can kill it. It isn't that hard to use Volcarona really. As long as Stealth Rock isn't in play, Volcarona can easily make an appearance and start to give problems to the other player.

Very true Resto Chesto volc is pretty threatning but SR really hampers it's day. Besides the fact that it is Resto Chesto (Rest/QD/Bug Buzz/Fire Blast) means Heatran Walls it for days on end even more so if it's the SpD Tran. w/SR and Roar in it's move slot Volca won't be doing much of anything.

Honurable mentions also go out to Dnite, Mence, Gyara and Terra can pretty much set up, or outright kill Volca as they resist both Volca's stab moves.

how is Tyranitar being sent out the turn it Quiver Dances going to help? Volcarona will outpace even Choice Scarf TTar after it does Quiver Dance. It is also free to blast it with Bug Buzz for a KO.

YEAH! That's the way to go, send in a Pokémon that is weak to Volca's STAB moves...
But seriously, why are you sending TTar when it will obviously lose???

Fun fact: If Volca is running Modest 252 HP/Def Volca reaches 236 while Jolly Tar reaches 243 meaning Ttar will outspeed after +1 and KO with Stone Edge/Rock Slide
(tho standard runs 96 Spe EVs)
Also
0 +1 SpAtk Volcarona Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Tyranitar: 80.7% - 95.61%
2 hits to KO
In the sand of course with a modest nature.
Maybe TTar is great switch after all lol ./sarcasm

Since this thread actually kind of makes me wonder this, should we actually make a thread an vote on Dragonite? If we did this, what I would do is have it be blind voting in that replies will not show up until a moderator approves them which would be after votes are casted. Only certain players I believe would be allowed to vote on it based off competitive skills.

:3

As earlier mentioned, if the Volcarona has HP Ground, which is pretty common, Terrakion is not going to survive a +1 hit. Landorus isn't liking a 1 Fiery Dance either, especially in the sun.

I can just as easily turn that around and make Terrakion's conditions more favourable instead of Volca's:
"Even if Volcarona has HP Ground which is pretty common, while sand is up, Terrakion can take the hit and procced to KO w/Stone Edge or Rock Slide"

Timid 252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 69.14% - 81.48%

Modest 252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 75.93% - 89.51%
2 hits to KO

See! Easy to turn that around. FYI HP Rock is the common set on the offensive varient as HP Ground is is walled by Dnite/Mence/Gyara.

---

Skarmory only phases, it doesn't kill it.

Never in my post did I ever imply that Skarm could kill Dnite, your post however did...
And I said it WW/phazes it away (WW means Whirlwind btw) -__-

How often is Cresselia even used? The amount of hits the Dragon Tail version has is irrelevant unless the Cress has Sub. The point of the set is to paralyze the opposing team with it. It isn't to sweep it with parashuffler Dragonite.

Again never did I say or imply that Parashuffler Dnite was sweeping anything.

FYI Cresselia is #89 according to Smogons December usage stats in OU.
Nitpicking at it's usage won't deter that Cress is still able to handle Dnite for reasons already stated.

I often run Brick Break over FirePunch on my Dragonite because then it actually can hit Heatran. It also gives it an edge against Ttar.

Whatever you run on your Dnite is your business!
I'm discussing what the majority run, and User Dangerous36m is correct +1 Brick Break doesn't even kill Offensive Tran:

252 +1 Atk Dragonite Brick Break vs 4 HP/0 Def Heatran: 80.86% - 95.68%
2 hits to KO

Your set then procceds to get walled by Skarm...so yeah.

 

[Limitless]

Running Volcarona without a spinner is the equivalent of suicide in the metagame. There's no guarantee that Stealth Rock will be up when Volcarona comes in if its teammate, Tentacruel/Starmie/Donphan/Hitmontop, have already spun them away already.

That's not true. You can easily run Volcarona in a heavy offense team. What this does is allow you to not force yourself to rely on a spinner that is clogging up a crucial member of your team. Thus, you're able to input more Pokemon into your team that help allow Volcarona to sweep.

However, building this type of team takes a lot of time; it certainly isn't easy. All I'm saying is that there are other options than having a spinner.

I have to say that these two Pokemon are probably the reason Terrakion is in the top 10. Don't get me wrong; its a great Pokemon. But because its one of the few Pokemon that counters both of these guys, its all the more reason to run it.

Even if there weren't Dragonite and Volcarona in the metagame, they would still be highly prevalent. The sheer speed and power that both have is a testament to their effectiveness in all types of teams.

Since this thread actually kind of makes me wonder this, should we actually make a thread an vote on Dragonite? If we did this, what I would do is have it be blind voting in that replies will not show up until a moderator approves them which would be after votes are casted. Only certain players I believe would be allowed to vote on it based off competitive skills.

I'm not sure I actually get the point of a vote. While I do agree that PokeBeach should be different from Smogon, this is definitely not the way to do it. Even Pokemon Online uses Smogon's tiers for BW OU, as people would still choose to use Smogon's anyways.

If you're simply doing it for activity sake, then there are better things to accomplish that. A voting would not really promote any type of discussion that isn't already occurring in this thread.


Lastly, if you're simply looking at Dragonite as an endgame sweeper, you're missing out on a lot of its potential. Just because it may not sweep all six Pokemon doesn't mean that it's not capapable of completely breaking down the opposing team's defenses. Use that broken down defense to your advantage.

In ordinance to its case for Ubers, I'd say Dragonite is on the edge. It's counterable for sure, but its ability to break defenses with ease really stands out to me. Dragonite is not something that will 6-0 you, but it will hurt you.

Volcarona is really one of those Pokemon that is great in theory, but when you actually apply it, it only works in about half the games. In half of the matches, it's easily Uber, but in the other half, it's a complete failure. The main reason is not its Stealth Rock weakness. Instead, it's the fact that for its main set (Quiver in sun) to be the most effective, it absolutely needs the sun to be up. With Ninetales's Stealth Rock weakness, its rather difficult for it to win a weather war.

 

[King Arceus]

The last time I checked, PO's OU tier had Blaziken in it along with other Pokemon that are banned on Smogon.

 

[Limitless]

The last time I checked, PO's OU tier had Blaziken in it along with other Pokemon that are banned on Smogon.

Then you checked a long time ago.

 

[Dangerous36M]

Then you checked a long time ago.

This. PO has followed along with Smogon, as it should, and as PokeBeach should.

 

[Juliacoolo]

Yeah, I believe PO's tiers are up to date with smogons now.

Having tiers differ smogon is and always will be a bad idea unless we ever grow to their size.

We want our members to be able to play with those from other sites, and most importantly, we want people who go to other forums to be able to play here.

 

[Limitless]

Yeah, I believe PO's tiers are up to date with smogons now.

Having tiers differ smogon is and always will be a bad idea unless we ever grow to their size.

We want our members to be able to play with those from other sites, and most importantly, we want people who go to other forums to be able to play here.

I believe their tiers are different for anything under OU.