Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 24
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I think Dragonite has the largest impact on the metagame right now. Its ability Multiscale lets it easily set up a Dragon Dance then KO at least 1-2 Pokemon before it can get taken down. This can be further aided with Lum Berry so it can use Outrage and not end up confused after the two or three turns it does that. Ones that use Dragon Claw could easily have Earthquake or FirePunch to deal with Steel types which are the only Pokemon that resist dragon moves. It also has reliable recovery in the form of Roost which might activate Multiscale again. It can basically use this in combination with Dragon Dance to set up and sweep an entire team that isn't prepared.
There is also the parashuffle Dragonite. While it doesn't have the same offensive prowess the Dragon Dance variant has, it does have the ability to force many switches and paralyze teams between Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail. Entry hazards make this Dragonite even more threatening. This Dragonite also likes to use Substitute to block attempts to cripple it with a status condition. Even Ferrothorn can't really stop this Dragonite well. You basically are forced to let a faster Pokemon weaken it, but get paralyzed in the process, unless that Pokemon is named Landorus or Gliscor.
I feel Dragonite forces teams not only to be able to withstand powerful attacks, but to also be able to function while paralyzed. It really could be considered borderline Uber just because of those two sets. Skarmory can't defeat Dragonite if the Dragonite has Substitute as Dragonite is faster than Skarmory. It can only wall its moves. Jirachi is a bit risky to use because Earthquake from the offensive variant is quite damaging. If you predict the Dragonite to be the offensive set and it is the defensive one, it can really ruin your plans.
There is also the parashuffle Dragonite. While it doesn't have the same offensive prowess the Dragon Dance variant has, it does have the ability to force many switches and paralyze teams between Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail. Entry hazards make this Dragonite even more threatening. This Dragonite also likes to use Substitute to block attempts to cripple it with a status condition. Even Ferrothorn can't really stop this Dragonite well. You basically are forced to let a faster Pokemon weaken it, but get paralyzed in the process, unless that Pokemon is named Landorus or Gliscor.
I feel Dragonite forces teams not only to be able to withstand powerful attacks, but to also be able to function while paralyzed. It really could be considered borderline Uber just because of those two sets. Skarmory can't defeat Dragonite if the Dragonite has Substitute as Dragonite is faster than Skarmory. It can only wall its moves. Jirachi is a bit risky to use because Earthquake from the offensive variant is quite damaging. If you predict the Dragonite to be the offensive set and it is the defensive one, it can really ruin your plans.
Kind of hard to say, as a metagame is an interwoven and complex beast. In terms of averaging large quantities of stats, everything is chained together. Gliscor affects Terrakion usage, Terrakion usage affects Heatran usage, Heatran usage affects Scizor usage, etc.
Shooting for the obvious, I'd say that the Pokemon which have the largest impacts are those which enable the success of entire playstyles. This would be Politoed, Tyranitar and Ninetales. Although handling each of these Pokemon individually is a small task, teams require multiple checks to the entire weather teams that these Pokemon are responsible for due to their abilities. The very roots of the 5th generation metagame are grounded in controlling weather. Deoxys-S was also influential in this regard before it was kicked out of OU, as it enabled the success of hyper offense (and as we have seen, the game has drastically slowed its pace since the ban).
Some guys like Scizor keep the usage of a lot of Pokemon up (Magnezone) or down (Latios) and may even affect tiering (if Scizor wasn't around, would Dragonite be uber, etc). But I don't think it comes close to the impact that weather starters have, really.
Shooting for the obvious, I'd say that the Pokemon which have the largest impacts are those which enable the success of entire playstyles. This would be Politoed, Tyranitar and Ninetales. Although handling each of these Pokemon individually is a small task, teams require multiple checks to the entire weather teams that these Pokemon are responsible for due to their abilities. The very roots of the 5th generation metagame are grounded in controlling weather. Deoxys-S was also influential in this regard before it was kicked out of OU, as it enabled the success of hyper offense (and as we have seen, the game has drastically slowed its pace since the ban).
Some guys like Scizor keep the usage of a lot of Pokemon up (Magnezone) or down (Latios) and may even affect tiering (if Scizor wasn't around, would Dragonite be uber, etc). But I don't think it comes close to the impact that weather starters have, really.
I would say dragonite, but King Arceus gave a very clear explanation as to why that's the case, so to go with my second I'd say Scizor.
It's definitely one of the biggest threats in OU, and almost a staple on the most common kind of weather team: Sand.
With extremely powerful technician bullet punches and stab u-turn, not only does it lend a hand to volt turning teams, but can completely sweep teams with bullet punch if they're not prepared.
It has the versatility to be bulky with SD or choice banded, and both pack a ton of power.
To relate back to my first statement, I could easily see Dragonite moving up to ubers sometime in the future, what with it's ability to almost always flawlessly get up at least one DD with multiscale; however, I think Scizor is a threat in the OU metagame that is here to stay.
It's definitely one of the biggest threats in OU, and almost a staple on the most common kind of weather team: Sand.
With extremely powerful technician bullet punches and stab u-turn, not only does it lend a hand to volt turning teams, but can completely sweep teams with bullet punch if they're not prepared.
It has the versatility to be bulky with SD or choice banded, and both pack a ton of power.
To relate back to my first statement, I could easily see Dragonite moving up to ubers sometime in the future, what with it's ability to almost always flawlessly get up at least one DD with multiscale; however, I think Scizor is a threat in the OU metagame that is here to stay.
Dragonite is pretty much the answer to every "Which Pokemon in the OU metagame is the most ____?" type question. It can do everything and fits into so many teams, it's ridiculous. It and Volcarona almost force you to run direct counters, and makes hazards that much important. And with good reason: these Pokemon can easily sweep your team given just one turn of setup. If you don't have something that can switch in and take care of them immediately, it's game over. The amount of impact that can have on the game is just scary.
ShadowLugia said:
Volcs weakness to SR, and easy ability to one hit KO out with a physical move make it much less of a threat, in my opinion.
Running Volcarona without a spinner is the equivalent of suicide in the metagame. There's no guarantee that Stealth Rock will be up when Volcarona comes in if its teammate, Tentacruel/Starmie/Donphan/Hitmontop, have already spun them away already.
Agreeing with SL about Dragonite and Volcarona. If you give them a single turn to set up, the same could easily be over. There's also no guarantee which Dragonite set you're facing. The usual Steel-types completely falter if Dragonite is running a mixed set with Fire Blast, especially Skarmory. Meanwhile, Volcarona's counters are entirely dependent on which Hidden Power type it has. If it has HP Ground, Heatran and non-Scarf Terrakion counters completely falter. Meanwhile, Gyarados and Dragonite suffer if Volcarona has HP Rock.
I have to say that these two Pokemon are probably the reason Terrakion is in the top 10. Don't get me wrong; its a great Pokemon. But because its one of the few Pokemon that counters both of these guys, its all the more reason to run it.
Agreeing with SL about Dragonite and Volcarona. If you give them a single turn to set up, the same could easily be over. There's also no guarantee which Dragonite set you're facing. The usual Steel-types completely falter if Dragonite is running a mixed set with Fire Blast, especially Skarmory. Meanwhile, Volcarona's counters are entirely dependent on which Hidden Power type it has. If it has HP Ground, Heatran and non-Scarf Terrakion counters completely falter. Meanwhile, Gyarados and Dragonite suffer if Volcarona has HP Rock.
I have to say that these two Pokemon are probably the reason Terrakion is in the top 10. Don't get me wrong; its a great Pokemon. But because its one of the few Pokemon that counters both of these guys, its all the more reason to run it.
Agreeing with KA, Bippa and SL. Dnite and Volc are big problems. Volcarona has the power to sweep the whole team after only one boost (with the right HP) and even Blissey isn't safe in sun. Dnite doesn't have that power after only 1 boost but it can always get it thanks to Multiscale also it can run multiple sets so it makes it unpredictable. I hope they get kicked very soon because I think we'll see a better metagame without them.
I'm still staunchly disagreeing with the volc thing. Yeah if it sets up it becomes a huge threat, but that goes the same for many other Pokemon. Whereas dnite always gets a free turn to set up with multiscale intact, volc can be easily KOed or statused before it gets a chance, (or tyranitar could be sent in on the set up move). I agree it's a huge threat but there's a reason it's not at the top of th usage, you have to be very smart when you use it, and I don't see why it should/would leave the metagame anytime soon.
Some Volcarona run the Chesto Rest set which is still quite threatening making physical attacks the only way you can kill it. It isn't that hard to use Volcarona really. As long as Stealth Rock isn't in play, Volcarona can easily make an appearance and start to give problems to the other player. how is Tyranitar being sent out the turn it Quiver Dances going to help? Volcarona will outpace even Choice Scarf TTar after it does Quiver Dance. It is also free to blast it with Bug Buzz for a KO.
Since this thread actually kind of makes me wonder this, should we actually make a thread an vote on Dragonite? If we did this, what I would do is have it be blind voting in that replies will not show up until a moderator approves them which would be after votes are casted. Only certain players I believe would be allowed to vote on it based off competitive skills.
Since this thread actually kind of makes me wonder this, should we actually make a thread an vote on Dragonite? If we did this, what I would do is have it be blind voting in that replies will not show up until a moderator approves them which would be after votes are casted. Only certain players I believe would be allowed to vote on it based off competitive skills.
I just mean sand would be put up allowing a lot of things to wall it a lot better, not actually leaving ttar in against it.
I.E terrakion.
I.E terrakion.
defensive Quagsire would pwn a defensive Dnite and the DD variant if it only packs Dragon Claw.
Physically defensive Volcarona can set up easily against most opponents while recovering with Morning Sun so even switching into SR isn't game over for Volc as it can generate enough boosts to kill even Dnite if it gets lucky with Fiery Dance.
Shadow Scyther said:
It can be as physically defensive as you want, it's not about to take a stone edge from landorus or terrakion.
As earlier mentioned, if the Volcarona has HP Ground, which is pretty common, Terrakion is not going to survive a +1 hit. Landorus isn't liking a 1 Fiery Dance either, especially in the sun.
Quagsire is not used that much really from my experience. It's only thing it has over Gastrodon is Unaware; everything else it is inferior to it. I've seen SubDD sets of Dragonite before which will only be able to stall against Quagsire.
LuxRay Powao said:
Quagsire is not used that much really from my experience. It's only thing it has over Gastrodon is Unaware; everything else it is inferior to it. I've seen SubDD sets of Dragonite before which will only be able to stall against Quagsire.
King Arceus said:
I was discussing it setting up against one of the many threats that could kill a "physically defensive one," so this is kind of irrelevant to my post.
And you're setting so many prerogatives here, +1, in the sun, a rapid spin that won't be blocked by any of the many viable spin blockers in OU, those are all conditions that won't be true in many cases, and either way it can be revenge killed a lot of the time. So many pokemon could be considered "OP" if you set certain conditions, Volc is good, but not too good for OU, and it definitely does not define the metagame.
Both Terrakion and Landorus need to be scarfed if they want to switch into Volc. But yes I must agree that it doesn't define the metagame (not yet 
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Shadow Scyther said:Both Terrakion and Landorus need to be scarfed if they want to switch into Volc. But yes I must agree that it doesn't define the metagame (not yet
Which is their most popular set
.For Landorus yes, Terrakion can be either SD, CS or CB.
Shadow Scyther said:
True, true. Any kind of rock move, a banded e-speed from a dragonite, among many of the other physical priority users can aid in getting rid of volc. And one just has to learn to be weary of it setting up xP.
*last words on the topic from me*